Mickiel's proof of God.

[mickiel]

Complexity is also the result of a system with many, many interacting factors.

Well I agree with you here, for sure. You are correct here, no doubt about that. You have stated a truth that I respect and see, complexity does have interacting factors, and I only wish I understood all of them.

Peace.

 

[Kerr]

Well I agree with you here, for sure. You are correct here, no doubt about that. You have stated a truth that I respect and see, complexity does have interacting factors, and I only wish I understood all of them.

Peace.

Yeah, me to . God or no God, the universe is still a, in lack of better words, magical place.

 

[mickiel]

DAY TWO



Nope no proof here. Still some personal opinion.

Perhaps your proof is in the next post.

Peace,

-Q

I live the proofs of God, my consciousness is my personal opinion, your right, thus whats mine is only for me, thus the proof is only for me. If I want God to reveal himself to me, why should it concern me what he does to someonelses mind? Therefore, as I explian what my consciousness thinks of God, why should it concern me what others think about what I am conscious of? Deny my consciousness as much as you wish, but my consciousness lives on, with no power from yours.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Yeah, me to . God or no God, the universe is still a, in lack of better words, magical place.

Well yes, and I think it has a magical sheppard, which makes sense to me. The only other alternitive, is some kind of " Happenstance Luck", a kind of luck which somehow created human life. The probability of life orginating from an accident is comparable to a full set of dictionarys resulting from an explosion in a printing shop or a tornado sweeping through a junkyard and assembling a boeing 747 from the materials therein.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Thats because you have certain Atheist who can't get away from name calling, showing disrespect and personal insults in conversation. And I am not going to stand for that. I'm just not. If you are going to talk with me, then you must show certain respects in the conversations. I ask for nothing I do not give. You can disagree, rough me up a bit, challange me, ignore me, question me, even complain about my spelling. You can be sarcastic, joke as much as you wish, but once you insult my personage, the conversation is over.

But I will forgive the insult, if a person apoligises. And I will give apoligy to others when I am wrong about how I treated them.

Peace.

You know when simple respect in conversation is neglected, does it really make a difference what people are talking about?

Peace.

 

[Kerr]

Well yes, and I think it has a magical sheppard, which makes sense to me. The only other alternitive, is some kind of " Happenstance Luck", a kind of luck which somehow created human life. The probability of life orginating from an accident is comparable to a full set of dictionarys resulting from an explosion in a printing shop or a tornado sweeping through a junkyard and assembling a boeing 747 from the materials therein.

Peace.

However, the universe is a huge place, so accidents such as life are bound to happen somewhere, and I bet them all would say the same thing. However, personally I am not sure accident is the correct term, that there is no creator does not mean it just happened for no reason (for example, if you throw a dice it will appear random to us humans, but in reality it is nothing random about which side that comes up). This is maybe why I consider it to be so magical... the thought of everything ordering itself is mind blowing.

 

[mickiel]

However, the universe is a huge place, so accidents such as life are bound to happen somewhere, and I bet them all would say the same thing. However, personally I am not sure accident is the correct term, that there is no creator does not mean it just happened for no reason (for example, if you throw a dice it will appear random to us humans, but in reality it is nothing random about which side that comes up). This is maybe why I consider it to be so magical... the thought of everything ordering itself is mind blowing.

Well I agree its nothing random. Which is why I view " Motion" as a proof of God. We know there is motion in the world. Yet whatever is in motion, is moved by another thing. This other thing must be moved by some force. To avoid infinte regression, we must have a first mover, which is God. The first mover cannot be of the same force.

Peace.

 

[Kerr]

Well I agree its nothing random. Which is why I view " Motion" as a proof of God. We know there is motion in the world. Yet whatever is in motion, is moved by another thing. This other thing must be moved by some force. To avoid infinte regression, we must have a first mover, which is God. The first mover cannot be of the same force.

Peace.

I happen to think existence never really began .

 

[darkendless]

However, the universe is a huge place, so accidents such as life are bound to happen somewhere, and I bet them all would say the same thing. However, personally I am not sure accident is the correct term, that there is no creator does not mean it just happened for no reason (for example, if you throw a dice it will appear random to us humans, but in reality it is nothing random about which side that comes up). This is maybe why I consider it to be so magical... the thought of everything ordering itself is mind blowing.

Don't bother.

I've tried explaining for days that evolution didn't come from no where.

I'd try a probability arguement but i don't think it will justify time spent typing it. I'm not going to waste my time on fundies who continue on preaching after their arguements are defeated.

 

[mickiel]

Don't bother.

I've tried explaining for days that evolution didn't come from no where.

I'd try a probability arguement but i don't think it will justify time spent typing it. I'm not going to waste my time on fundies who continue on preaching after their arguements are defeated.

What you call defeat, I call attention, which you are paying. And as long as you pay it, I will give you what you pay for.

Peace.

 

[darkendless]

What you call defeat, I call attention, which you are paying. And as long as you pay it, I will give you what you pay for.

Peace.

Your arguement was based on evolution comming from "nothing." This is untrue, you have not since presented a worthy arguement but rather continued on as if evolution came from nothing.

 

[mickiel]

I happen to think existence never really began .

Well if you exclude God, there is not much other way to think. The cosmological arguement of all physical things on earth, even things in space, come into being and then go out of existence, no matter how long they last, is faulty. Since time is infinite, there must be some time at which none of these things existed , but if there were nothing at that point in time, how could there be anything now, since nothing cannot cause anything? Thus, there must always have been at least one neccessary thing that is eternal, which is God.

This is why I reject the " Nothing is caused by itself arguement." Its useless dribble , accepted by those who dribble like babies looking for nurishment, because they hold a need to be fed.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Your arguement was based on evolution comming from "nothing." This is untrue, you have not since presented a worthy arguement but rather continued on as if evolution came from nothing.

What makes you think your evaluation of my words determine the results of my meaning? You think and decide on your own merit, your evaluation of my words are meaningless to me, they do not pronoune results of reason, which would determine my focus, only the focus of those who think like you.

I have much more to post, and none of it will be determined by your judgement of my mind.

Peace.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Baloney, the human eye is an incredible proof of God itself, but I won't post on it, but I could if I wanted to. Although accounting for just 1/4 thousandth of an adults weight, the human eye processes some 80% of the information received by its owner from the outside world. The Retina contains about 130 million rod shaped cells, which detect light intensity and transmit impulses to the visual cortex of the brain by means of some 1,000,000 nerve fibers, while nearly 6 million cone shaped cells do the same job, but respond specifically to colour variation.

The eye can handle 500,000 messages simiultaneously, and are kept clear by ducts producing just the right amount of fluid with which the lids clean both eyes simultaneously in one - five thousandths of a second. I most certainly disagree with your view of the eye. It is impossible for evolution or natural selection to achieve this perfection.

Peace.

And yet..there are animals, which some people consider less than man, in the kingdom with far superior sight than us.....

Good eyesight or the ability to process information visually is not a proof of a god....

 

[Kerr]

Well if you exclude God, there is not much other way to think. The cosmological arguement of all physical things on earth, even things in space, come into being and then go out of existence, no matter how long they last, is faulty. Since time is infinite, there must be some time at which none of these things existed , but if there were nothing at that point in time, how could there be anything now, since nothing cannot cause anything? Thus, there must always have been at least one neccessary thing that is eternal, which is God.

This is why I reject the " Nothing is caused by itself arguement." Its useless dribble , accepted by those who dribble like babies looking for nurishment, because they hold a need to be fed.

Peace.

Actually I can think of other theories, but I have no reason to believe in any of them, lol.

In any case, either existence is eternal or God is, and in both cases you got something that exist that is eternal. And that something has no beginning or end. Which means that eternity exist, and eternal existence does not seem less possible (in my opinion at last) then the idea of an eternal God, since basically both are a form of existence. Also note that when I said that I believe existence is eternal it means I do not think there ever was a time when nothing existed, however I do not think existence has looked the same. For example, I have no idea what was before the Big Bang. I do not think there where nothing, I just don´t know what.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Complexity does define creator. The lens of our eyes varies in density so that all rays are brought into focus. This cannot be duplicated by any homogenous physical substance, such as glass. All the marvelous adjustments of the lens, rods and cones, nerves and allelse must have occured simultaneously, before each of them was complette, sight is impossible! Oh what proof of God that is! How could any of these necessary factors know and adjust itself to each of the requirements of the other? Its just not possible man, its just not.

Nature would have had a job developing the science of optics unless along the line there was a lot of help from intelligence, this is just a fact. Evolution cannot account for the eye purely on the basics of successive slight modifications. Before each modification God made was complette, sight was impossible.

Peace.

We....meaning MAN, has created a "Better" eye...lens... We call it the camera. It is far better than the human eye....did I mention...WE created it?

Biologically there are animals with far better sight. Take the Hawk. It is said some have been known to have 20/2 vision which is a far sight (no pun intended) better than ours.

 

[darkendless]

What makes you think your evaluation of my words determine the results of my meaning? You think and decide on your own merit, your evaluation of my words are meaningless to me, they do not pronoune results of reason, which would determine my focus, only the focus of those who think like you.

I have much more to post, and none of it will be determined by your judgement of my mind.

Peace.

Well explain yourself clearly. You can't say something and mean another, only to whine about "intended meaning."

Stop moving the goal posts and get to your point.

 

[Magic Man]

You got me dead wrong man, stop trying to treat me like you do other believers. I am not like them, I am not out here everyday trying to convince or convert! Which one of you have I EVER tried to convert or change your views. Produce that post please! Come on man, I talk with Atheist here everyday, where have I tried to imposes my beliefs on another? My style of debate is NOT to convince, but to explain my views, and thats as far as I go.

Listen, Atheist " Ask me for proof everyday", I give the proof, but ONLY to show you WHY I believe. Not to change your belief, or to convince you of mine. Get that in your understanding about me, your missing a vital part of me.

Peace.

Um...The title of the thread is "Answered prayer, another proof of God", and the OP explains how God has answered your prayers and that's proof of God. What's the point of showing proof of something other than to try to convince someone else that that something exists?

Even if it's not to convince someone else that you're right, why post proof, if you don't expect the people who don't already agree with you to see them as proof?

 

[Amill]

Well if you exclude God, there is not much other way to think. The cosmological arguement of all physical things on earth, even things in space, come into being and then go out of existence, no matter how long they last, is faulty. Since time is infinite, there must be some time at which none of these things existed , but if there were nothing at that point in time, how could there be anything now, since nothing cannot cause anything? Thus, there must always have been at least one neccessary thing that is eternal, which is God.

I don't really know of anybody that thinks everything came from nothing. I agree that I believe something was eternal. I figure energy has always existed in some form. What makes you think that people believe stuff came from nothing? I'm sorry but it's an extremely faulty and unsupported assumption on your part. Should look into things before making claims.

 

[Sententia]

The concept of evolution itself is a proof of God.

False. Last time there was a formal attempt at classifying the current religions that I heard about - there were... approximately 4200! Most of which claim their deity to be the god.

Simple: Evolution is not a concept - It is a scientific theory and all evidence supports it.

God is concept that varies from religion to religion and one that doesn't even approach the lofty goal of being considered an actual theory.

The inane aduacity of something comming from nothing is one of the most serious proofs of God I have ever considered.

Which has nothing to do with evolution. Evolution does not state something comes from nothing.

Are you ignorant of what the theory of evolution actually is? Are you purposefully being false to provoke a reaction?

Ignorance can be fixed... I would recommend Dawkin's new book "The Greatest Show on Earth", as a starter.

I would be interested in where you came up with the idea that any scientific theory states you can get something from nothing. (Perhaps you are spending time building perpetual motion machines?) In stark contrast science defines the exact opposite in the First Law of thermodynamics which speaks to the conservation of energy. Its a long wikipedia article but you can google it but ones meaning you can derive from it is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Which would mean what in terms of matter? Einstein said energy is equal to matter times the speed light squared. So based on just those two small tidbits of information one can derive that no scientific theory is going to state something comes from nothing without first rewriting the foundation of physics.

Oh how certain people must rid this world of any concept of God. They will go to serious extremes to put in place unreason, and distort our heritage of comming from a God, and replace it with the insult of being in a liniage with Apes of all things.

ALL life on this planet is related. Not all life on this planet has eyes, mouths, hair, fur or brains... But it ALL has DNA. And it is all related. We were most definitely not always in the form we are today and there is verifiable proof for that and various theories considering why we exist as fur-less, naked hominids.

Seemingly you are unfamiliar with any of these theories and instead choose to think negatively. You choose to demonize the entire concept as some crusade to rid the world of god. You choose these false and insulting accusations and hurl them with what appears to be hate and disgust. Why choose hate?

And no... you are not descended from an ape nor does evolution imply otherwise. (Although it is interesting that you capitalize ape... Very reverent. )

Such an insult proves God, and also proves the extremes of deception that exist in the human mind.

If you do not actually know the theory and can't debate it on rational terms then you can not truthfully declare it insults anything nor can you declare it an act of extreme deception. You don't even understand it to make any type of claim that anyone should take seriously. The fact that they call evolution a theory to you may be misleading but it is not meant to be. Evolution is for all intents and purposes a fact. Nothing disproves it. It is neither intended as an insult to god nor is it in anyway some type of deception.

Note the term evolution. I want to go into this term and show you some interesting deceptions contained within it.
Peace.

Personally I think you probably want to debate abiogenesis or the big bang or perhaps the big splat. You start of with a complete false statement, pile on false accusation after false accusation and seem disturbed that you could share some common ancestry with an ape or gorilla. (And really... you share a common ancestor with all life as we all do.... cows, pigs, scorpions, oak trees, the bumble bee, ye old octopus and river trout)

Also... we are all Africans. (And thats a positive thing)