Miracles. Scientific Proof.

[KWED]

Dogs have to rely upon humans to help them cope with COVID. They don't have colleges to train dogs to do "scientific" research.

Are you ok?

 

[KWED]

Let me clarify. Do I believe that Jesus healed certain ones? Yes. Do I believe these miracles stopped after some time passed? Yes. Do I believe these miraculous events will happen again in the future? Yes, you got it!

Yes, we understand that you believe stuff. The question is, what evidence or rational argument do you have to support your claims?

 

[KWED]

Right now I'll take their 'word' for it, that there is a slight difference in genetic makeup between chimpanzees and humans.

You can take their word for it (defer to expertise) or you can review the evidence yourself and confirm it (which I would suggest as you seem somewhat sceptical).

Also loving the irony of being sceptical of the consensus conclusion of many peer-reviewed, scientific studies...but not being sceptical of an ancient book of magical stories.

I am claiming that there is a slight but vast difference in that gap between chimps and humans. That's what I'm claiming. Now if you want to offer something different, I'm laughing as I say this, go right ahead. Insofar as I know, NO CHIMPANZEE teaches writing to other chimpanzees. Would you say they don't feel a need to do that?

Still completely baffled as to what your point is.
No one is claiming that because chimps share 99% of their DNA with humans that they should behave 99% like humans. You seem to completely misunderstand the implications of the data.
Humans share 60% DNA with bananas. Are you going to argue that this is somehow suspect because bananas can't teach each other to write music?

 

[KWED]

dogs can get covid but they do not feel the "need" to train other canines to do scientific research on this.

How do you know? They may be extremely frustrated at their inability to conduct scientific studies. Have you talked to dogs to find out?

Try again. I am saying that they do not have the GENETIC CAPACITY to do this. ONLY HUMANS DO.

Wrong. It is not a "genetic capacity". It is a result of evolution/education.
10,000 years ago Homo sapiens were essentially genetically the same as today, but they couldn't conduct scientific studies. There is no "science gene".

My, this is a hard item to talk about, since it seems very hard for some to admit or acknowledge that the 2% or less difference between humans and chimpanzees makes a VAST difference of cognitive functioning and ability.

What evidence do you have that it is the 2% DNA difference that results in humans doing science and chimps not?

Taking treatment does NOT mean a person does not rely upon God. Is that what you think I believe? I rely upon God and take medical treatment when I deem warranted.

There is the famous quote from Muhammad to a follower who was not tying up his camel. When asked why not he told Muhammad that he had faith in Allah to keep his camel safe.
"Trust in Allah and tether your camel" replied Muhammad. IOW, "Allah ain't gonna help you!".

 

[KWED]

How do you know that God is not going to help us? See, that's what I want to know. Are you basing your opinion on statistics? (A lot of bad things happen.)
My question is: what do you think or expect a God should do about this, since you declare God is not going to help us. Do you think God should help us and in what way?
Remember -- from the beginning -- of the Bible's account whether you believe it or not -- God let Adam and Eve figure things out (right from wrong) for themselves since Eve decided that's what she wanted and Adam went along with her to go against God. So -- we're seeing the results of the millenia of men deciding for themselves to an extent.
P.S. I don't think God sent monkeypox and swine flu. Let's not leave out other miseries perpetrated not by viruses but by man going against man and inhumane acts by men. But getting back to monkeypox, etc., God allows it now. Just as He allows other things.

If god was going to help people, he would do it. The evidence suggests that he can't, doesn't want to, or is actively causing the problems in the first place.

If you are choking on a piece of food, do you want people to pray for you, or perform the Heimlich manoeuvre?

Data shows that people who get "miraculously cured" of cancer at Lourdes is actually lower than the rate of spontaneous remission in the general population. This suggests that god is actively killing devout believers who seek a miracle cure. Which must be worrying for them.

 

[KWED]

We are lucky that no asteroid has killed humankind. And this luck will be forever, because universe needs intelligent observer. Us. Quantum Mechanics. Hence, Spirit of Luck is God, God is Luck.

So you agree that it is luck rather than god's protection that has prevented an extinction event in the last several millions of years.
However, there is no guarantee that one won't happen ten years from now. Luck usually runs out.

 

[questfortruth]

So you agree that it is luck rather than god

I am not an atheist. It is God.

God is person. Luck is person. God is Luck.

Love is person. God is person. God is Love.

 

[idea]

Everything is in question. But some people make choices based on how they perceive things. As I have said more than once, I used to say there is no God because (1) I couldn't figure things out, (2) religion in general has made a mess of things. I examined various religions and nothing made sense to me but yes, I believe God reached me at last and showed me the 'way.' But obviously that is not everyone's experience.

It is an individual personal path for everyone. As someone who had kids molested by organized Christianity, I feel it is my duty to encourage everyone to be self-reliant, to avoid trusting any group. People are great as individuals. Groupthink, tribes - are evil, take away freedom, brainwashing is real. Maturity is learning to live with honesty, with ambiguity, research multiple sources, stay flexible to change with new information, and not be a slave to any group, not go with any crowds.

Most religious people claim spiritual experiences - I used to claim that too - another important thing is to realize "elevation" is NOT from God, it is a herd-bonding instinct.

Elevation (emotion) - Wikipedia

Your "spiritual" experiences are no different from those of heaven's gate or all the rest.

 

[YoursTrue]

I may have read it, I do not remember. But Hindu scriptures are sufficient for me. Useless things do not get registered in my mind.

OK. As I understand the way things are and the way they are going anyway, we're in very troublesome times because things are going to happen according to Bible prophecy that signals a serious decisive judgment. But anyway, you have a good day as things are unfolding.

 

[YoursTrue]

It is an individual personal path for everyone. As someone who had kids molested by organized Christianity, I feel it is my duty to encourage everyone to be self-reliant, to avoid trusting any group. People are great as individuals. Groupthink, tribes - are evil, take away freedom, brainwashing is real. Maturity is learning to live with honesty, with ambiguity, research multiple sources, stay flexible to change with new information, and not be a slave to any group, not go with any crowds.

Most religious people claim spiritual experiences - I used to claim that too - another important thing is to realize "elevation" is NOT from God, it is a herd-bonding instinct.

Elevation (emotion) - Wikipedia

Your "spiritual" experiences are no different from those of heaven's gate or all the rest.

I look forward to what I understand to be the future. If you're happy where you're are, that's up to you.

 

[YoursTrue]

If god was going to help people, he would do it. The evidence suggests that he can't, doesn't want to, or is actively causing the problems in the first place.

If you are choking on a piece of food, do you want people to pray for you, or perform the Heimlich manoeuvre?

Data shows that people who get "miraculously cured" of cancer at Lourdes is actually lower than the rate of spontaneous remission in the general population. This suggests that god is actively killing devout believers who seek a miracle cure. Which must be worrying for them.

These "miracle cures" happened in the past as a testimony. If I were choking and someone performed the Heimlich manuevre on me and I survived, I'd be happy. Why? Because life is something to be valued. Would I thank God for the recovery? I would thank God that I recovered ... all good things are attributed to God. And He lets bad things happen, but that doesn't mean He did them. It's kind of like natural laws of procreation. Things happen.

 

[YoursTrue]

I may have read it, I do not remember. But Hindu scriptures are sufficient for me. Useless things do not get registered in my mind.

Our brains are all different. May i ask what makes you put your trust in Hindu scriptures? Also -- what do you look forward to insofar as your future, in other words, do the Hindu scriptures tell you what will happen to each one of us in general? And what about the earth? What do they say about the origin and future of the earth? Thanks, and hope you understand.

 

[YoursTrue]

You can take their word for it (defer to expertise) or you can review the evidence yourself and confirm it (which I would suggest as you seem somewhat sceptical).

Also loving the irony of being sceptical of the consensus conclusion of many peer-reviewed, scientific studies...but not being sceptical of an ancient book of magical stories.

Still completely baffled as to what your point is.
No one is claiming that because chimps share 99% of their DNA with humans that they should behave 99% like humans. You seem to completely misunderstand the implications of the data.
Humans share 60% DNA with bananas. Are you going to argue that this is somehow suspect because bananas can't teach each other to write music?

Whether or not humans resemble chimpanzees is not the point. Whether or not the DNA is similar to a large degree is part of the point. It is clear to me that humans are vastly different in reasoning and cognitive ability. Again -- no chimpanzee or gorilla or bonobo is able to write music down, or publish a newspaper. I cannot make it clearer than that right now.

 

[idea]

I look forward to what I understand to be the future. If you're happy where you're are, that's up to you.

I choose honesty over imagination. Doesn't always make me happy, but at least it's real.

 

[Aupmanyav]

May i ask what makes you put your trust in Hindu scriptures? Also -- what do you look forward to insofar as your future, in other words, do the Hindu scriptures tell you what will happen to each one of us in general? And what about the earth? What do they say about the origin and future of the earth?

I do not believe in the stories in the scriptures. I choose only the portions which do not have conflict with modern science (since I am an atheist Hindu) and ask us to fulfill our duties (dharma).
I am particularly interested in the question of existence and non-existence. The philosophy that I follow (Advaita, non-duality) is in complete agreement with the theory of Chaos, Randomness, Uncertainty, Probability, Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.
Do you mean what happens to us after our death? Science describes it very well. It is chemical recycling of what our body is composed of.
For origin and future of earth also, I follow science.14.8 billion years for the universe and 4.5 billion years for earth. As for future, we have about a billion years to go before life ends on earth.

 

[YoursTrue]

I do not believe in the stories in the scriptures. I choose only the portions which do not have conflict with modern science (since I am an atheist Hindu) and ask us to fulfill our duties (dharma).
I am particularly interested in the question of existence and non-existence. The philosophy that I follow (Advaita, non-duality) is in complete agreement with the theory of Chaos, Randomness, Uncertainty, Probability, Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.
Do you mean what happens to us after our death? Science describes it very well. It is chemical recycling of what our body is composed of.
For origin and future of earth also, I follow science.14.8 billion years for the universe and 4.5 billion years for earth. As for future, we have about a billion years to go before life ends on earth.

Well, you do bring up a point to ponder which is: what is a "atheist Hindu"? By the way, I do believe what the Bible says in reference to what happens after death. We go back to the dust. But God can remember us.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well, you do bring up a point to ponder which is: what is a "atheist Hindu"? By the way, I do believe what the Bible says in reference to what happens after death. We go back to the dust.
But God can remember us.

Simple. Atheist Hindu. No God. All that seems to happen is because of the existence of 'What exists' (Brahman, 'physical energy').
That is where we differ. No God to remember anything. Does God have a brain, heart (to pump blood to the brain), lungs (to purify blood), kidneys (to remove the impurities) and a ..... to throw out those impurities? God is human imagination.

 

[KWED]

I am not an atheist. It is God.

God is person. Luck is person. God is Luck.

Love is person. God is person. God is Love.

Please make an effort to be coherent.
Thanks.

 

[KWED]

These "miracle cures" happened in the past as a testimony.

They still happen, according to the church, but you stand a better chance of surviving if you do nothing, than if you make a pilgrimage to a holy shrine and ask god to help you.

If I were choking and someone performed the Heimlich manuevre on me and I survived, I'd be happy. Why? Because life is something to be valued.

So you realise that another diner is more likely to help you than god.

Would I thank God for the recovery? I would thank God that I recovered ...

Why? If you had trusted only in his help you would probably be dead.

all good things are attributed to God. And He lets bad things happen, but that doesn't mean He did them. It's kind of like natural laws of procreation. Things happen.

So why don't good things "just happen" as well? You can't have it both ways.
And if god can prevent bad things but just stands by and watches them happen, he is as responsible for the outcome as the fireman who stands by and watches someone trapped in a car burn to death rather than using their tools and training to get them out.

 

[questfortruth]

Please make an effort to be coherent.
Thanks.

Do not insult my IQ. All is coherent. Luck is PERSON. You can marry the Luck. Your wife can be Luck. Luck is person. When you have luck, the invisible lady Luck has smiled on you.