Miracles

[Trackdayguy]

A BIG THANKS for all those who have rejoiced with us. I think my final word on this post is whatever is happening to you isn't God's fault. I think the biggest lesson we've learned in this is staying positive, who knows what can happen when one chooses the higher ground. Even if our positive attitude doesn't get us what we want is will sure make the world we live in a better place. Lord knows there are enough hurt & angry people out their, I meet them every day in my clinic.

THANKS

 

[Trackdayguy]

If god exists and can perform miracles why is it so choosy about to whom it hands them out? It will let a child die, but supposedly cure an adult in the last stages of their life, for instance.

I think unexpected cures happen, but are nothing to do with a god.

Are you referring to the god you dont believe in ?

 

[JJ50]

Are you referring to the god you dont believe in ?

Humans are the only 'gods', in our sphere of influence, imo.

 

[David T]

Most Christian fundamentalists will talk about miracles, healing and supernatural events, I did when I was in that camp.

3 months ago my life partner Chris was diagnosed with breast cancer, its in her family 7 of them have died of it in the past 40 years, so you can imagine the fear the came upon us all. Tests were done biopsy, more tests, 100% confirmed. A date was given for surgery 19th March. at the beginning of March she went to a healing meeting in town where several people gathered around her and prayed, I was there, nothing visible happened. She felt all along that she wouldn't need surgery. She decided to go back to the doctor for more test. 4 Doctors and a surgeon looked at the latest tests, NOTHING. all gone. She went back 5 days later for more tests, still nothing.

How we dont don't know all we know is it appears that something amazing has happened.

There is absolutely no such thing as random chance and accidentalism. I have walked alone a lot in the forests, and I have yet to see a whale walking towards me on its tail playing a guitar. That said absolutely there is something to prayer that's really important. Is what that is understood? I see zero evidence of that. Since there is zero evidence of it being understood one could scientifically pretend it's nonsense, in spite of the evidence to the contrary. Some people are very "scientific"in their denials to say the least. On the flip side, we can have funny interpretations of such things as well. Life and thus nature is a mystery not a machine. So I would say, that what has happened is a mystery. We can call it just, random chance scientifically or miracle religiously, they are identical interpretations. I just say neither it's a mystery.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Who knows how this all happened to my dear Chris. Whats clear from this post is there's some very hurt and angry people on this site.

A bit of advice. Rejoice when others rejoice and if you can't probably best to keep quiet.

Your advice is both judgmental and dismissive of other folk's Life Experiences.

Is not the point of being herd animals, communication with one another?

If you dismiss every negative comment, you are effectively dismissing them as a person, and dismissing their experiences as either irrelevant or unimportant.

I understand your desire to reject negative things in response to your attempt at celebration of your joy. But you are guilty of doing to them, the exact thing you complain about in the first place!

*sigh*

 

[tayla]

Most Christian fundamentalists will talk about miracles, healing and supernatural events, I did when I was in that camp.

I believe miracles can and probably have happened. I am very skeptical of specific reports that such and such occurred and was a miracle. There are so many stories of so-called miracles witnessed by many which provably didn't happen. Eyewitness testimony is unreliable and the brain manufactures data. Imagine if we believed our dreams during sleep were real, if they were miracles.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

And for those who talked about a natural healing because of the reactivation of the immune system... well, cancer doesn't get healed so quickly.

Actually? Sometimes? It [cancer] does exactly that: Spontaneous Remission is a common enough event, medical people have named it, and study it extensively.

My grand-dad experienced spontaneous remission of colon cancer, for example. Of course, this was many decades ago, and surgeons did not have access to non-invasive examination procedure-- so they opened him up-- found nothing-- and closed him back.

He laughed about the whole thing-- my gran'da loved laughing, in fact.... laughed every chance he could...

... might be something to that, no?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Most Christian fundamentalists will talk about miracles, healing and supernatural events, I did when I was in that camp.

3 months ago my life partner Chris was diagnosed with breast cancer, its in her family 7 of them have died of it in the past 40 years, so you can imagine the fear the came upon us all. Tests were done biopsy, more tests, 100% confirmed. A date was given for surgery 19th March. at the beginning of March she went to a healing meeting in town where several people gathered around her and prayed, I was there, nothing visible happened. She felt all along that she wouldn't need surgery. She decided to go back to the doctor for more test. 4 Doctors and a surgeon looked at the latest tests, NOTHING. all gone. She went back 5 days later for more tests, still nothing.

How we dont don't know all we know is it appears that something amazing has happened.

Never discount a positive attitude, with respect to physical (and mental) Health.

A "healing ceremony" can indeed have profound effects on mental health-- and thereby directly affect physical health.

The brain-body connections humans have is very strong, and anyone can find studies that show poor mental health can have drastic and negative effect on the body. The reverse, naturally, is also true.

My grandad was diagnosed with colon cancer-- and the doctors were so certain (from symptoms and other things-- this was well before MRI or other non-invasive diagnoses... crude X-ray was the State Of Art back then) ... so certain they scheduled surgery. Between diagnosis and surgery, several weeks pass-- my grandad spending that time in Hospital.

He loved to laugh. That was his legacy, in fact-- everyone who knew him? Always remarked on his quick wit, and his huge collection of jokes. He liked to laugh, and he loved helping other people to laugh.

The nurses would often find him, not in his room--but down the hall somewhere, cheering up someone else who was hurting.

When they opened him up? They found.. nothing. No cancer. So they closed him back up. He was proud of his belly-scar, and would tell you several jokes about it too.

My overly-belabored point? Attitude is Everything.

I have no doubt at all, that your partner's healing ceremony had Deep Significance to you and your partner-- and such things can not be dismissed lightly.

Attitude.

It is gratifying to read of someone's success, in battling Cancer. Good on you and your Life Partner-- I hope for you both, that you experience many-many more years together.

If there be a god? I would think that such a being would not need to intervene directly, instead? The Tools To Heal Ourselves already exist, sometimes.

Alas, it's a Hit Or Miss Proposition-- too many people die anyway, in spite of positivism.

As Mark Twain quipped more than once? All the Evidence Is Not In.

 

[Gmcbroom]

Terry Johns. Congratulations on the miracle. May you grow in faith hope and charity. As for the others here I can’t explain why some get healed and some don’t; but when miracles happen as a practicing Catholic a look at it through that Lens. As such Our Heavenly Father spared his only begotten Son Jesus, Sin. But not even he spared his Son suffering. So if Jesus suffered unto death why would he spare anyone? As for miracles, intercessory prayer from the saints (who see and pray to God)or praying straight to God and receiving a miracle happen a lot. In fact that’s the way a pope recognizes Saints. The individual under consideration for sainthood has to have 2 documented miracles as well as have been known to have a good faith life in accordance with the Catholic Church. Does God allow miracles to occur through evil people or people who don’t practice the faith even bad popes priests etc, yes he does. It’s called Grace. The poor quality of the tools (ie us humans) only highlights the Grace of God all the more. This mystery should encourage all to be humble even charitable.

If a miracle happens then there is a reason he allows it to occur. Though God alone may know the reason why; we are creatures after all, not the Creator.

 

[joe1776]

Coming in late and haven't read the replies to the OP, so I might be duplicating an earlier post.

While not denying the miracle explanation, there is another with some science supporting it.

It's possible that both the disease and the cure were caused by Chris's expectations. In medical science, I refer to the nocebo and placebo effects. Essentially, sometimes we get what we expect to get whether we want it or not.

Because of her family history, Chris expected to get breast cancer. Because of her belief in the power of prayer, she expected to be cured.

 

[ecco]

Most Christian fundamentalists will talk about miracles, healing and supernatural events, I did when I was in that camp.

3 months ago my life partner Chris was diagnosed with breast cancer, its in her family 7 of them have died of it in the past 40 years, so you can imagine the fear the came upon us all. Tests were done biopsy, more tests, 100% confirmed. A date was given for surgery 19th March. at the beginning of March she went to a healing meeting in town where several people gathered around her and prayed, I was there, nothing visible happened. She felt all along that she wouldn't need surgery. She decided to go back to the doctor for more test. 4 Doctors and a surgeon looked at the latest tests, NOTHING. all gone. She went back 5 days later for more tests, still nothing.

How we dont don't know all we know is it appears that something amazing has happened.

Hmm. You state that when you were a Christian fundamentalist you believed in miracles. The implication being that you no longer are a Christian fundamentalist. Yet in your first post in this forum, you describe a "miracle".

With all due respect, I believe that you have been and are a Christian fundamentalist. I believe you posted here to further proselytize you fundamentalist beliefs. There is no reason to believe that your story is true.

Post the medial records showing that "Chris" was indeed shown to have breast cancer, was scheduled for surgery, etc. Short of that, you are just another person trying to convince others of "god's greatness".

 

[Trackdayguy]

Hmm. You state that when you were a Christian fundamentalist you believed in miracles. The implication being that you no longer are a Christian fundamentalist. Yet in your first post in this forum, you describe a "miracle".

With all due respect, I believe that you have been and are a Christian fundamentalist. I believe you posted here to further proselytize you fundamentalist beliefs. There is no reason to believe that your story is true.

Post the medial records showing that "Chris" was indeed shown to have breast cancer, was scheduled for surgery, etc. Short of that, you are just another person trying to convince others of "god's greatness".

WOW... I'm sorry for you, must be tough getting up every morning with all that anger, skepticism and judgement.

 

[Mock Turtle]

The two times I survived death might be seen as miracles except my quick-thinking and some luck probably were the causes - no faith involved either since I have never had any from a young age.

 

[Trackdayguy]

Coming in late and haven't read the replies to the OP, so I might be duplicating an earlier post.

While not denying the miracle explanation, there is another with some science supporting it.

It's possible that both the disease and the cure were caused by Chris's expectations. In medical science, I refer to the nocebo and placebo effects. Essentially, sometimes we get what we expect to get whether we want it or not.

Because of her family history, Chris expected to get breast cancer. Because of her belief in the power of prayer, she expected to be cured.

As previously said what ever happened we dont know, what we do know is she had it and now its gone. The focus has to be in the result NOT the how.

 

[sealchan]

Most Christian fundamentalists will talk about miracles, healing and supernatural events, I did when I was in that camp.

3 months ago my life partner Chris was diagnosed with breast cancer, its in her family 7 of them have died of it in the past 40 years, so you can imagine the fear the came upon us all. Tests were done biopsy, more tests, 100% confirmed. A date was given for surgery 19th March. at the beginning of March she went to a healing meeting in town where several people gathered around her and prayed, I was there, nothing visible happened. She felt all along that she wouldn't need surgery. She decided to go back to the doctor for more test. 4 Doctors and a surgeon looked at the latest tests, NOTHING. all gone. She went back 5 days later for more tests, still nothing.

How we dont don't know all we know is it appears that something amazing has happened.

That's wonderful news.

So would you be writing a post about how the prayers didn't work had the surgery still been considered necessary?

If not, then what count of unanswered prayers for cancer healing from equally sincere prayers should we keep in mind?

It is easy to celebrate answered prayers...it is harder to account for the more numerous unanswered one's. Be sure you don't expect others to be convinced.

Still there are few experiences more reassuring than a prayer answered...probably because so few are...ironically.

 

[joe1776]

As previously said what ever happened we dont know, what we do know is she had it and now its gone. The focus has to be in the result NOT the how.

So, are you saying that you posted this in this forum expecting that your presentation of it as a miracle would not be the focus of the discussion?

 

[ecco]

WOW... I'm sorry for you, must be tough getting up every morning with all that anger, skepticism and judgement.

I sleep very well and have no problem getting up in the morning.

Anger? No
Skepticism? Oh yeah. Lot's of it stemming from years of listening to religious and psychic BS.
Judgement? Asking for verification is not judging. Of course, if you cannot provide verification, you will have provided more support for my skepticism.

 

[Woberts]

As previously said what ever happened we dont know, what we do know is she had it and now its gone. The focus has to be in the result NOT the how.

That's a dangerous philosophy. What's that? We're killing the environment? Then lets wipe America and China off the map, that'll take care of a lot of emissions!

 

[Milton Platt]

That's truly wonderful to hear. I wish that same god would help all the children that will die this week at the Hasbro Children's Hospital...

Yes, how noble of the god to heal people of the diseases and effects of the tragedies he supposedly could have prevented in the first place.

 

[agorman]

Guys, let's see if my beliefs are of any use to you to clarify why God helps some people and not others...

I believe a Universal God, if He exists, is totally indifferent to us puny humans. He (although assigning "Him" a gender is probably ridiculous) is more busy with great tasks as the spin of galaxies, the orbits of planets and the making of new suns... He doesn't care if you suffer because of testicles cancer or you burn slowly alive in a fire.

What happens in our lives is the result of the state of our minds. The Buddha said it. If only that would be taught at schools... but it's not. So the result is people looking for a God as the responsible for their lives and that's a big mistake. It all comes down to ourselves.

I do believe though that there are compassionate superior beings in other levels/planes/dimensions of the Universe who are willing to help us, only if we call them. And the reason why we must give them energy (e.g. candles) and repeat prayers or mantras to them is because we must open our minds to get their help. We must even open our minds for them to help them change our minds! If we don't change our mind, we don't change our lives. Notice most mantras, prayers and affirmations are repeated. That is to get them into our subconscious minds.

If we have in our minds the ideas of a complex of inferiority or punishment, we will be continually underestimated and suffer the most horrible punishments; because those ideas become manifest in our lives!

That's why "God" didn't care about what Nazis did. Some Jews even thought they were getting what they deserved because they were "sinners". And "I'm a sinner who deserves to be punished" is a horrible concept to have in your mind!

So it's always the victim's fault? Yes and no. Yes, because the victim didn't make any effort to change his or her mind. And no, because the victim was never taught that he or she had to change his mind in the first place.

That's why the Elites that ruled this World for thousands of years have most of the time, hidden occult knowledge. Because they want our lives to go on in misery, enslaved by them. That "occult knowledge" is nothing else than the methods to improve our own minds. Elites just take advantage of the sorry state of our minds; not considering that their minds, although more illuminated than ours, are still not fully awakened of course.