Miracles

[Mock Turtle]

Guys, let's see if my beliefs are of any use to you to clarify why God helps some people and not others...

I believe a Universal God, if He exists, is totally indifferent to us puny humans. He (although assigning "Him" a gender is probably ridiculous) is more busy with great tasks as the spin of galaxies, the orbits of planets and the making of new suns... He doesn't care if you suffer because of testicles cancer or you burn slowly alive in a fire.

What happens in our lives is the result of the state of our minds. The Buddha said it. If only that would be taught at schools... but it's not. So the result is people looking for a God as the responsible for their lives and that's a big mistake. It all comes down to ourselves.

I do believe though that there are compassionate superior beings in other levels/planes/dimensions of the Universe who are willing to help us, only if we call them. And the reason why we must give them energy (e.g. candles) and repeat prayers or mantras to them is because we must open our minds to get their help. We must even open our minds for them to help them change our minds! If we don't change our mind, we don't change our lives. Notice most mantras, prayers and affirmations are repeated. That is to get them into our subconscious minds.

If we have in our minds the ideas of a complex of inferiority or punishment, we will be continually underestimated and suffer the most horrible punishments; because those ideas become manifest in our lives!

That's why "God" didn't care about what Nazis did. Some Jews even thought they were getting what they deserved because they were "sinners". And "I'm a sinner who deserves to be punished" is a horrible concept to have in your mind!

So it's always the victim's fault? Yes and no. Yes, because the victim didn't make any effort to change his or her mind. And no, because the victim was never taught that he or she had to change his mind in the first place.

That's why the Elites that ruled this World for thousands of years have most of the time, hidden occult knowledge. Because they want our lives to go on in misery, enslaved by them. That "occult knowledge" is nothing else than the methods to improve our own minds. Elites just take advantage of the sorry state of our minds; not considering that their minds, although more illuminated than ours, are still not fully awakened of course.

Seems a bit like speculation to me - and especially about the 'elites' - the powerful always will be in charge probably but there doesn't have to be much more of a reason for this other than greed and inertia - their wealth passing on to their kin.

 

[Neb]

Most Christian fundamentalists will talk about miracles, healing and supernatural events, I did when I was in that camp.

3 months ago my life partner Chris was diagnosed with breast cancer, its in her family 7 of them have died of it in the past 40 years, so you can imagine the fear the came upon us all. Tests were done biopsy, more tests, 100% confirmed. A date was given for surgery 19th March. at the beginning of March she went to a healing meeting in town where several people gathered around her and prayed, I was there, nothing visible happened. She felt all along that she wouldn't need surgery. She decided to go back to the doctor for more test. 4 Doctors and a surgeon looked at the latest tests, NOTHING. all gone. She went back 5 days later for more tests, still nothing.

How we dont don't know all we know is it appears that something amazing has happened.

your religion says: "When I've figured it out I'll let you know." So what is your religion now?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

How we dont don't know all we know is it appears that something amazing has happened.

While I am happy for the both of you, I too have to remain in the skeptics' corner. Too many unknown factors at play to make any sort of determination in any sense. For all we know:

• The results of the tests the doctor read to her were someone else's tests who was having the exact same tests at all the same times as she, and the same switch-up happened each time until the follow-up, and was never caught.
• An unknown "cure for cancer" was unwittingly eaten/imbibed by your partner between the initial diagnosis and the follow-up tests.
• A drastic change in emotional state, due to having received the dire news, triggered a release of and sustained change in blood chemistry, and the unfamiliar environs killed all the cancer cells.
• She was selected as an experimental target of the government's secret "Bio-Cannon" - in orbit around the Earth, which can give or take away maladies at-will with GPS-targeted blasts.
• She caught the favor of some magical fairies that have healing powers, and live in a realm that we all visit in the deepest states of REM sleep.

Note how I kept getting a bit more far-fetched with each passing possibility... and also note how each one of these is just as likely (considering the evidence we have to go on) as the proposition that God/prayers had anything to do with it.

 

[Trackdayguy]

Miracle - Wikipedia

I sleep very well and have no problem getting up in the morning.

Anger? No
Skepticism? Oh yeah. Lot's of it stemming from years of listening to religious and psychic BS.
Judgement? Asking for verification is not judging. Of course, if you cannot provide verification, you will have provided more support for my skepticism.

Then I guess you might want to consider changing what your listening to. Scepticism is a choice as is what your listening to, if you dont like it I suggest you listen to something else.

 

[Trackdayguy]

your religion says: "When I've figured it out I'll let you know." So what is your religion now?

Aware that there's something out there bigger than me.

 

[Trackdayguy]

Miracle - Wikipedia

 

[Kenny]

Most Christian fundamentalists will talk about miracles, healing and supernatural events, I did when I was in that camp.

3 months ago my life partner Chris was diagnosed with breast cancer, its in her family 7 of them have died of it in the past 40 years, so you can imagine the fear the came upon us all. Tests were done biopsy, more tests, 100% confirmed. A date was given for surgery 19th March. at the beginning of March she went to a healing meeting in town where several people gathered around her and prayed, I was there, nothing visible happened. She felt all along that she wouldn't need surgery. She decided to go back to the doctor for more test. 4 Doctors and a surgeon looked at the latest tests, NOTHING. all gone. She went back 5 days later for more tests, still nothing.

How we dont don't know all we know is it appears that something amazing has happened.

I'm happy for you. It is difficult to rejoice in such a result when we know that there are so many others who lost their lives in the process. None-the-less, I rejoice with you!

Two friends of mine. Lisette - inoperable brain tumor but, after prayer it shrunk and disapeared. Evelyn, stage 4 colon cancer... same results.

I think we can think of it this way. There is a success/failure rate on many treatments but you don't throw the treatment out just because it doesn't have a 100% success rate. One rejoices when it works and one comforts when it doesn't.

And one tries to see if there are anything that can be learned when it doesn't

 

[agorman]

Seems a bit like speculation to me - and especially about the 'elites' - the powerful always will be in charge probably but there doesn't have to be much more of a reason for this other than greed and inertia - their wealth passing on to their kin.

"speculation"? Try it by yourself. Meditate or pray and see how some things in your life change.

About Elites, it's not a matter of wealth only, but also of who will go on working for them. Now workers are being slowly replaced by robots, so that will be one less problem for them. Also, they like the feeling of being better than us petty commoners. Mind you, I'm talking about those who rule the World, not about any common wealthy businessman.

 

[Trackdayguy]

Its interesting how some people have the ability to take good news and pervert it with their own sick and twisted concepts. I guess in the end each person chooses what they believe. For me I'd rather be happy and deluded than an argumentative, sceptic who only ever sees negativity. What I can tell you as a Psychologist is that toxicity is all coming out of peoples hurt and woundedness. But of course and as we know the blind cant see.

 

[Kenny]

Its interesting how some people have the ability to take good news and pervert it with their own sick and twisted concepts. I guess in the end each person chooses what they believe. For me I'd rather be happy and deluded than an argumentative, sceptic who only ever sees negativity.

I wonder if negativity affects prayer results.

 

[stvdv]

Most Christian fundamentalists will talk about miracles, healing and supernatural events, I did when I was in that camp.

3 months ago my life partner Chris was diagnosed with breast cancer...How we dont don't know all we know is it appears that something amazing has happened.

Thanks Terry for sharing about the divine miracle happening to your wife. I know miracles exist and happen. Not 1 doubt in my mind. I see it as a kind of "visiting card" of Our Lord. Making me smile whenever they happen.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Who knows how this all happened to my dear Chris. Whats clear from this post is there's some very hurt and angry people on this site.

A bit of advice. Rejoice when others rejoice and if you can't probably best to keep quiet.

I'm not going to keep quiet when you spout nonsense that is hurtful, irrational and illogical. Get over it. People don't need to agree with you or pat your back. Good for your wife that she recovered - that's wonderful - but it had nothing to do with any b.s. "miracles".

 

[Kenny]

I'm not going to keep quiet when you spout nonsense that is hurtful, irrational and illogical. Get over it. People don't need to agree with you or pat your back. Good for your wife that she recovered - that's wonderful - but it had nothing to do with any b.s. "miracles".

I would have to disagree. I'm sorry that you have had a difficult life as many other have had--even in my own family tree. But it doesn't translate that there are therefore no miracles.

 

[stvdv]

I wonder if negativity affects prayer results.

@KenS: My experience is that negativity sometimes even gives better results. I remember reading "God laughs when dokter says you can't be cured or even you will die. Because that's all in God's hands". Then I got jaundice. There was a man doing prayer and stuff. My friend being fruitarian told me "this man eats meat, smokes, drinks alcohol, has sex.... Not so good, impossible you will be healed". I am a vegetarian, but remembering the quote I jumped up, went, and took the mans pills on which he had been praying, and was cured next day. No more yellow. So whenever I have a problem and doctors tells me "impossible", I am very much relieved; I know now God is handling it. Took me a very long time to get to this point. I have been depressed and desperate also for a long time.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I would have to disagree. I'm sorry that you have had a difficult life as many other have had--even in my own family tree. But it doesn't translate that there are therefore no miracles.

Nah, there's no miracles because no evidence for them and that's not how reality works. And don't give me your fake sympathy.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Because of many reasons. A deity can judge some people more loyal than others. Also, a deity knows if some people are prepared for a miracle or they'll go running to the shrink in panic, not knowing how to deal with a non-physical intervention in their lives. How would you react if you would suddenly meet Jesus or Krishna, etc. here in the physical plane? Imagine the guy just descends from a flying saucer and tells you he wants to talk to you and have some beers. Some people would be delighted for such a vision, but others would die of a heart attack on the spot! Others would react with distrust, fearing it's a trick from a shapeshifting alien pirate that just wants to kindnap them to get some tissue samples. They would receive Jesus with a shotgun!

And for those who talked about a natural healing because of the reactivation of the immune system... well, cancer doesn't get healed so quickly.

Nonsense. The picture is funny, though.

 

[Kenny]

@KenS: My experience is that negativity sometimes even gives better results. I remember reading "God laughs when dokter says you can't be cured or even you will die. Because that's all in God's hands". Then I got jaundice. There was a man doing prayer and stuff. My friend being fruitarian told me "this man eats meat, smokes, drinks alcohol, has sex.... Not so good, impossible you will be healed". I am a vegetarian, but remembering the quote I jumped up, went, and took the mans pills on which he had been praying, and was cured next day. No more yellow. So whenever I have a problem and doctors tells me "impossible", I am very much relieved; I know now God is handling it. Took me a very long time to get to this point. I have been depressed and desperate also for a long time.

Yes, I can see how that would work that way.

I was thinking along the lines of the receiver. If you would be saying "I don't believe it, this is a bunch of malarky" etc, I would assume that 1) you wouldn't have jumped up and 2) even if they told you eat it anyway and you did, I wonder if it wouldn't have created the results such as you had.

 

[Kenny]

Nah, there's no miracles because no evidence for them and that's not how reality works. And don't give me your fake sympathy.

More emphathy than sympathy. I guess, for me, all the events that I have experienced or see are evidence enough for me.

However, life can continue without belief in miracles.

 

[stvdv]

Yes, I can see how that would work that way.

I was thinking along the lines of the receiver. If you would be saying "I don't believe it, this is a bunch of malarky" etc, I would assume that 1) you wouldn't have jumped up and 2) even if they told you eat it anyway and you did, I wonder if it wouldn't have created the results such as you had.

@KenS: Aha I see. I have a nice example of that. My neighbour, female 25, fell of horse. kind of broke something in her back. Not fatal, but could not lift stuff. I told her "come, lets go to this healing session". She said "No I don't believe in this". Sometimes I don't give up easy. So I kept bugging her with this. Finally she went with me (probably to get me silent). Hundreds of people. Christian healer walks up to her asking what her problem is, with tears in her eyes she explained. Praying. Healed. Next day she was lifting 25kg stones in the garden. I thought "don't know if that is smart". But I know also when to shut up. She is healed.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Its interesting how some people have the ability to take good news and pervert it with their own sick and twisted concepts. I guess in the end each person chooses what they believe. For me I'd rather be happy and deluded than an argumentative, sceptic who only ever sees negativity. What I can tell you as a Psychologist is that toxicity is all coming out of peoples hurt and woundedness. But of course and as we know the blind cant see.

Stop shaming people who don't agree with you. You're revealing that you are still a fundie.