Misogyny in Game of Thrones?

[freethinker44]

Because you kept commenting about it?

Inheritance laws - regarding going to the children rather than spouse aren't inherently misogynistic in GoT or elsewhere. If you stop insisting they are the issue will probably get dropped.

If you keep focusing on that rather than the rest of the discussion that's all you're going to hear about.

Did you notice those were all responses? I didn't just butt in a serious conversation about misogyny in GoT and inject a completely unrelated opinion that isn't even what the thread is about, I was responding to people injecting their unrelated opinion about something I said in the first post was a non-issue to me. But you're right, it's totally my fault for derailing the discussion.

 

[freethinker44]

But why do you consider them misogynistic? The queen did not win the throne, she married it. Why should she get to inherit the throne over their children? Especially if (as in many historical cases) she had conflicting interests, due to being from another country or having a country of her own. This is not the case in GoT, but...

And there you go.

 

[Drolefille]

Did you notice those were all responses? I didn't just butt in a serious conversation about misogyny in GoT and inject a completely unrelated opinion that isn't even what the thread is about, I was responding to people injecting their unrelated opinion about something I said in the first post was a non-issue to me. But you're right, it's totally my fault for derailing the discussion.

Yes, you responded to me discussing how you don't have to have misogyny to have a medieval setting. And then you complained that people responded to your response to me, by responding to them and then complaining that they were off topic. And now, you're the only one complaining about the derailing of the thread, so sure, I'll go with it being you.

I really don't feel like finding all the arguments on the internet about misogyny in GoT. They're there, and they're valid. I don't have a strong belief about it beyond that. If you'd like to discuss the focus on victimhood vs. agency, I'm up for it, but you could go back to complaining that no one is talking about it the way you want them to instead if you like.

 

[HexBomb]

And there you go.

So because she doesn't have a country of her own, it's misogynistic? She doesn't lose her land, her money, her possessions, she just doesn't get to rule as queen in her own right. Why is that misogyny? She didn't fight a war.

And you still haven't said whether you feel children inheriting is inherently sexist.

I'm not trying to jump on you, I'm simply trying to understand. It sounds like you're saying the queen is lesser, that her husband has to provide the kingdom to her, rather than his children.

 

[freethinker44]

I really don't feel like finding all the arguments on the internet about misogyny in GoT. They're there, and they're valid. I don't have a strong belief about it beyond that. If you'd like to discuss the focus on victimhood vs. agency, I'm up for it, but you could go back to complaining that no one is talking about it the way you want them to instead if you like.

Why would you debate in a debate thread that you don't want to debate in? So what then, you came here to talk about anything but the topic the thread was created to talk about? What's that all about?

 

[freethinker44]

So because she doesn't have a country of her own, it's misogynistic? She doesn't lose her land, her money, her possessions, she just doesn't get to rule as queen in her own right. Why is that misogyny? She didn't fight a war.

She doesn't have land or money, her father and son does. She is only Queen until her son marries and then she goes back to Casterly Rock and wait for her father to find a suitable husband to replace Robert. She doesn't have rights to any land, only Tyrion because Jaime is a gold cloak it skips Cersei and goes to Tyrion, although Tywin hates him too much to let that happen.

So yeah, it's misogyny.

 

[HexBomb]

She doesn't have land or money, her father and son does. She is only Queen until her son marries and then she goes back to Casterly Rock and wait for her father to find a suitable husband to replace Robert. She doesn't have rights to any land, only Tyrion because Jaime is a gold cloak it skips Cersei and goes to Tyrion, although Tywin hates him too much to let that happen.

So yeah, it's misogyny.

So, is the problem the Lannisters, or children inheriting? Is it inherently misogynistic, or is it misogynistic because Tywin is a pig's posterior? Because women can and do inherit across the Kingdoms. Is the problem the House involved or the laws? No law says Cersei can't inherit, obviously, but Tywin can choose who inherits his things, just like my Gran can choose not to leave my uncle anything.

So Tywin may be a misogynist, okay, but does that make the law itself providing for children over partner wrong? If it does, is it only wrong in historical and fictional settings?

 

[freethinker44]

So, is the problem the Lannisters, or children inheriting? Is it inherently misogynistic, or is it misogynistic because Tywin is a pig's posterior? Because women can and do inherit across the Kingdoms. Is the problem the House involved or the laws? No law says Cersei can't inherit, obviously, but Tywin can choose who inherits his things, just like my Gran can choose not to leave my uncle anything.

So Tywin may be a misogynist, okay, but does that make the law itself providing for children over partner wrong? If it does, is it only wrong in historical and fictional settings?

It's not obvious at all. As far as I can tell their laws say if there is a male heir, the male heir gets it. Where exactly does it state that she has a right to inherit over Jaime or Tyrion?

It also has been established that it is irrelevant to the topic. So do you think GoT is misogynistic?

 

[HexBomb]

It's not obvious at all. As far as I can tell their laws say if there is a male heir, the male heir gets it. Where exactly does it state that she has a right to inherit over Jaime or Tyrion?

Because there are multiple Houses that are inherited by females in the series, several with brothers?

So do you think GoT is misogynistic?

I think some of the characters are misogynistic, and that the culture of the books has obviously come from a misogynistic place in the past, and that the Dothraki are misogynistic, but I think it also showcases women in a variety of strengths in a variety of ways, without dismissing them as incapable, so I don't think the writing itself is.

 

[Drolefille]

Why would you debate in a debate thread that you don't want to debate in? So what then, you came here to talk about anything but the topic the thread was created to talk about? What's that all about?

No, I simply don't feel like going and finding all the arguments for you.

I did in fact give you an example of something I'd discuss, but you ignored it, much as you ignored the other responses in favor of continually talking about inheritance despite saying it's irrelevant.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

People who are always looking for something they expect to find, will inevitably find it everywhere they look.

 

[freethinker44]

No, I simply don't feel like going and finding all the arguments for you.

I did in fact give you an example of something I'd discuss, but you ignored it, much as you ignored the other responses in favor of continually talking about inheritance despite saying it's irrelevant.

So you come to a debate thread about a specific topic, refuse to debate the topic, and then get upset when I don't want to talk about what you want instead? You know anyone can start a thread on here, you don't have to go into other threads and change the topic, just create one if there isn't one with the topic that interests you.

I mean, going off to topic is one thing but flat-out refusing to talk about the topic that you chose to participate in is kind of rude. No one forced you to come in here and regurgitate an opinion, you chose to. If you don't want to talk about what the thread exists to talk about, then don't participate in the thread.

 

[Alceste]

People who are always looking for something they expect to find, will inevitably find it everywhere they look.

I honestly didn't expect Game of Thrones to waste so much valuable screen time on images of naked women being sexually exploited, having read the books. Every titillating HBO scene of naked women occurs at the expense of story and character development. It's not just that I've had to watch added, dull scenes of sexual exploitation of women that don't occur in the books, it's that I'm having to watch those instead of finding out what's happening with Arya, Tyrion, Jon Snow, Bran Stark and others. Pointless, IMO, and a disappointing facet of an otherwise excellent show.

 

[Drolefille]

So you come to a debate thread about a specific topic, refuse to debate the topic, and then get upset when I don't want to talk about what you want instead? You know anyone can start a thread on here, you don't have to go into other threads and change the topic, just create one if there isn't one with the topic that interests you.

I mean, going off to topic is one thing but flat-out refusing to talk about the topic that you chose to participate in is kind of rude. No one forced you to come in here and regurgitate an opinion, you chose to. If you don't want to talk about what the thread exists to talk about, then don't participate in the thread.

As I said, if you want to talk about agency vs. victimhood in game of thrones, which is indeed "on-topic" then do, if not then don't. I've given my thoughts. You're really the only person throwing a fit here, though.

I honestly didn't expect Game of Thrones to waste so much valuable screen time on images of naked women being sexually exploited, having read the books. Every titillating HBO scene of naked women occurs at the expense of story and character development. It's not just that I've had to watch added, dull scenes of sexual exploitation of women that don't occur in the books, it's that I'm having to watch those instead of finding out what's happening with Arya, Tyrion, Jon Snow, Bran Stark and others. Pointless, IMO, and a disappointing facet of an otherwise excellent show.

Agreed. And really this is all reminding me that I need to reread the books badly.

 

[Alceste]

Relevant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUBiOOx0Pxw

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I honestly didn't expect Game of Thrones to waste so much valuable screen time on images of naked women being sexually exploited, having read the books. Every titillating HBO scene of naked women occurs at the expense of story and character development. It's not just that I've had to watch added, dull scenes of sexual exploitation of women that don't occur in the books, it's that I'm having to watch those instead of finding out what's happening with Arya, Tyrion, Jon Snow, Bran Stark and others. Pointless, IMO, and a disappointing facet of an otherwise excellent show.

That's certainly a valid opinion. However, adding hot, naked chicks for marketing and visual appeal isn't the same thing as misogyny. I'm not sure whether you're arguing that the show is misogynistic or not.

 

[Debater Slayer]

That's certainly a valid opinion. However, adding hot, naked chicks for marketing and visual appeal isn't the same thing as misogyny. I'm not sure whether you're arguing that the show is misogynistic or not.

Sexual objectification of women can and does sell, but that doesn't make it any less demeaning or misogynistic.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Sexual objectification of women can and does sell, but that doesn't make it any less demeaning or misogynistic.

I fail to see what makes it necessarily misogynistic. Perhaps we're using different definitions.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Sexual objectification of women can and does sell, but that doesn't make it any less demeaning or misogynistic.

So was Magic Mike misandrist and demeaning towards men?

 

[freethinker44]

So was Magic Mike misandrist and demeaning towards men?

I felt objectified. To this day I can't wear a cowboy hat and leather vest without feeling like women everywhere want to tear off my clothes. Because of that movie, now I have to find a new outfit for church.