Missouri Republicans vote 104-39 to reject open-carry amendment

[The Kilted Heathen]

15?? I think that's illegal.

Wrong. It'd be illegal if they're conceal-carrying, as they can't have a permit. It's not illegal for them to be open-carrying a gun right now, certainly without an adult, because 104 Republicans voted that it wasn't a rational restriction for minors.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Squirrel hunting?
Is that like a thing in America?

I mean we hunt Ibises here so I’m not judging or anything.
I’d imagine such a small fast target does improve your aim

It's a tradition going back into the 1700s and beyond that.

Many Indigenous nations hunt them in the America's.

 

[Twilight Hue]

They are a minor

True in the legal context.

I'm sure most already know that boyhood is long gone at that age.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Some Indigenous folks in my area hunt and eat squirrels. I never tried it myself.

I used to hunt them with a buddy in college. We had a local butcher who'd occasionally come on campus to sell meat, and we'd get thick-cut black pepper bacon to lay on them while baking. Tasty stuff!

 

[We Never Know]

Wrong. It'd be illegal if they're conceal-carrying, as they can't have a permit. It's not illegal for them to be open-carrying a gun right now, certainly without an adult, because 104 Republicans voted that it wasn't a rational restriction for minors.

Are you saying the law is wrong?

"Open carry and concealed carry are legal in Missouri without a Concealed Carry Permit (CCP) for anyone 19 years or older who can legally possess a firearm (18 for members of the military or honorably discharged)."

https://www-usconcealedcarry-com.cd...om/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/mo-gun-laws/

 

[We Never Know]

Wrong. It'd be illegal if they're conceal-carrying, as they can't have a permit. It's not illegal for them to be open-carrying a gun right now, certainly without an adult, because 104 Republicans voted that it wasn't a rational restriction for minors.

Do you not have an answer to this simple question?

"Tell me why a 17 year old boy going squirrel hunting in the mark twain national forest needs adult supervision?

I assume you can't answer with anything but "I hate guns and people shouldn't have them".

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Yea. I myself was shooting 16 gauge shotguns when I was 11. Of course I was on a farm and attended the rod and gun club that was in my area.

I also was shooting various guns when I was a teenager on the family farmlands. I was well-supervised, though. I think there's a difference in the cultures of even the 90s when I was a teen and today, much of it based on the gun violence we see and the reaction of vocal crazy people who are portrayed as being part of the gun crowd. Ted Nugent is an obvious example, various social media folks openly displaying their firearms as if they are Rambo are another.

I support gun rights. But I also support sane regulation of gun ownership and use. Supervision of minors seems reasonable.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Again.... Tell me why a 17 year old boy going squirrel hunting in the mark twain national forest needs adult supervision?

Because he is a child. I don't care what anecdotes are drug out about hunting squirrels in the 70's alone in the woods, a 17 year old is a child. A child does not need to be running around in the woods, firing around at squirrels without an adult present.

Now, yet again, tell me why a child does not need restrictions. Because again, currently there is no restriction. You're throwing out 17 year old boys, keep going down. How about a 6 year old?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I also was shooting various guns when I was a teenager on the family farmlands. I was well-supervised, though. I think there's a difference in the cultures of even the 90s when I was a teen and today, much of it based on the gun violence we see and the reaction of vocal crazy people who are portrayed as being part of the gun crowd. Ted Nugent is an obvious example, various social media folks openly displaying their firearms as if they are Rambo are another.

I support gun rights. But I also support sane regulation of gun ownership and use. Supervision of minors seems reasonable.

Yea. I failed to mention that I was always with an adult monitering me when shooting at that age.

 

[We Never Know]

Because he is a child. I don't care what anecdotes are drug out about hunting squirrels in the 70's alone in the woods, a 17 year old is a child. A child does not need to be running around in the woods, firing around at squirrels without an adult present.

Now, yet again, tell me why a child does not need restrictions. Because again, currently there is no restriction. You're throwing out 17 year old boys, keep going down. How about a 6 year old?

A 17 year old boy is a minor but a young adult. Odds are he was raised hunting and knows firearm saftey.


A 6 year old? Good god son don't be ignorant!
Any sensible person/adult wouldn't turn a 6 year old out loose with a gun by theirself

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Yea. I failed to mention that I was always with an adult monitering me when shooting at that age.

I assumed that with family farm.

 

[VoidCat]

Guys I checked this PDF here:
Missouri - Handgunlaw.us https://www.handgunlaw.us/states/missouri.pdf

This is what it say when listing laws:

Open Carry is legal without a permit but local governments can ban the open carrying of firearms without a
valid permit Missouri issues or honors. The state preemption statute only covers the carrying of concealed
firearms so local authorities can ban the carrying of firearms openly without a valid permit. See Title III
21.750 below. You would have to know local ordinances if you wish to open carry without a permit. See
Preemption Section below for more information on local governments authorized to ban Open Carry without
a valid permit.

This is not the last word on Open Carry in this state. Check at www.opencarry.org or go to Google and type
in State Name Open Carry or Open Carry State Name for a search for open carry info in this state. Check
with the State's RKBA Organization/s. Also see “Attorney General Opinions/Court Cases” Section for any
written opinions/Cases on Open Carry.

Title 21.750

Title III 21.750. Firearms legislation preemption by general assembly, exceptions--limitation on civil
recovery against firearms or ammunitions manufacturers, when, exception.
1. The general assembly hereby occupies and preempts the entire field of legislation touching in any way
firearms, components, ammunition and supplies to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or
regulation by any political subdivision of this state. Any existing or future orders, ordinances or regulations
in this field are hereby and shall be null and void except as provided in subsection 3 of this section.
2. No county, city, town, village, municipality, or other political subdivision of this state shall adopt any
order, ordinance or regulation concerning in any way the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permit, registration, taxation other than sales and
compensating use taxes or other controls on firearms, components, ammunition, and supplies except as
provided in subsection 3 of this section.
3. (1) Except as provided in subdivision (2) of this subsection, nothing contained in this section shall
prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions
of sections 571.010 to 571.070, with appropriate penalty provisions, or which regulates the open
carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction,
provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243. No ordinance shall be
construed to preclude the use of a firearm in the defense of person or property, subject to the
provisions of chapter 563.
(2) In any jurisdiction in which the open carrying of firearms is prohibited by ordinance, the open
carrying of firearms shall not be prohibited in accordance with the following:
(a) Any person with a valid concealed carry endorsement or permit who is open carrying a firearm
shall be required to have a valid concealed carry endorsement or permit from this state, or a permit
from another state that is recognized by this state, in his or her possession at all times;
(b) Any person open carrying a firearm in such jurisdiction shall display his or her concealed carry
endorsement or permit upon demand of a law enforcement officer;
(c) In the absence of any reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal activity, no person carrying
a concealed or unconcealed firearm shall be disarmed or physically restrained by a law
enforcement officer unless under arrest; and
(d) Any person who violates this subdivision shall be subject to the penalty provided in section
571.121. 2014 S.B. 656

I do not see any laws regarding children and open carrying but im still reading

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Because he is a child. I don't care what anecdotes are drug out about hunting squirrels in the 70's alone in the woods, a 17 year old is a child. A child does not need to be running around in the woods, firing around at squirrels without an adult present.

Now, yet again, tell me why a child does not need restrictions. Because again, currently there is no restriction. You're throwing out 17 year old boys, keep going down. How about a 6 year old?

I don't know...17 year olds are often responsible, emotionally-stable people with loads of life experience to draw from in emergencies.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

A 17 year old boy is a minor but a young adult. Odds are he was raised hunting and knows firearm saftey.

"Odds are" means absolutely nothing in terms of the law. A 17 year old is a child.

A 6 year old? Good god son don't be ignorant!

Don't son me.

Any sensible person/adult wouldn't turn a 6 year old out loose with a gun by theirself

Again, with the probabilities and dangerous assumption. At this point, following a 6 year old knowingly shooting their teacher and an Indiana toddler firing a loaded gun, it is not outside the realm of possibility that a child is going to carry around a dangerous weapon. And right now, thanks to 104 Republicans, there are zero repercussions should that child kill someone.

That you cannot provide a reason as to why this absolute psychotic mentality should persist, I can only assume that you're fine with it.

 

[Quintessence]

There was a mass shooting on public lands in my state last year. This was perpetrated by the typical young white male we come to expect of these attacks. They were in their early tweens. Now, Missouri will get to deal with sub-18 year old children doing the same thing. Do they plan to try their future child murderers as adults and subject them to the death penalty too? Hmm...

EDIT: though this case is probably a bad example, because the perp killed themselves. Which... actually makes this entire situation worse come to think of it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Squirrel hunting?
Is that like a thing in America?

I mean we hunt Ibises here so I’m not judging or anything.
I’d imagine such a small fast target does improve your aim

Yes, they are quite tasty if prepared correctly. Yes, I have shot my fair share of squirrels when I was young.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Do you not have an answer to this simple question?

"Tell me why a 17 year old boy going squirrel hunting in the mark twain national forest needs adult supervision?

I assume you can't answer with anything but "I hate guns and people shouldn't have them".

How do you conceal carry a .22 rifle?

EDIT: Oops, my bad. I thought that the law merely would have banned concealed carry. There are times that a minor does not need adult supervision when using a firearm. This bill went too far.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

As far as I know, carrying a weapon has never killed anyone before. That's not to say that I would feel comfortable with a kid holding a weapon right in front of me, but there are practical reasons why a kid would need hold a gun, like previously mentioned for hunting. And there's already plenty of laws that prevents kids from having guns at school. I don't really see this as a big deal and I am against the prohibition for practical reasons as already mentioned.

 

[We Never Know]

"Odds are" means absolutely nothing in terms of the law. A 17 year old is a child.


Don't son me.


Again, with the probabilities and dangerous assumption. At this point, following a 6 year old knowingly shooting their teacher and an Indiana toddler firing a loaded gun, it is not outside the realm of possibility that a child is going to carry around a dangerous weapon. And right now, thanks to 104 Republicans, there are zero repercussions should that child kill someone.

That you cannot provide a reason as to why this absolute psychotic mentality should persist, I can only assume that you're fine with it.

"Don't son me."

Don't do what you don't like being done

Policeman becomes a hero but can't celebrate it

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

but there are practical reasons why a kid would need hold a gun, like previously mentioned for hunting.

So maybe you can then provide what should be a very easy answer. Why should it not be a legal requirement that said child then not be supervised by an adult?

And there's already plenty of laws that prevents kids from having guns at school.

1. Those are working so well.
2. Which laws?

"Don't son me."

Don't do what you don't like being done

What a fantastic non-answer to anything put to you.

Also @Father Heathen is right about your reading comprehension if you're really mixing the two of us up right now.