Moksha and who is "worthy" of it

[Maya3]

Isn´t Nirvana more like Samadhi?
And then after you reach Moksha?

Maya

 

[Valjean]

I think terms differ amongst different sects and regions.
As I understand it, Nirvana, Samadhi or enlightenment generally refers to the expansion of consciousness into Unity.
Moksha is the cessation of the apparent series of rebirths -- an idea that would make no sense for a single, timeless, universal Consciousness.

 

[ratikala]

Moksha (release from samsara) is an outcome of nirvana. They are not the same thing.

I'd prety well agree with that ,

moksa is liberation , release from the cycle of birth and death ,

nirvana has two meanings ,
nirvana; which is a state of bliss

nirvANa ; which has the same meaning as moksa , snuffing out , ceasation of craving , liberation , extinction , ....yet it holds the conotation of the atainment of union with the supreme , the realisation of ultimate reality .


nirvana the state of bliss can also be a level of realisation which brings peacefullnes to a realised being whilst still embodied .
whilst samAdhi ; is accomplishment , the atainment of deep absorbtion and union with the supreme , thus when a revered swami passes he is considered to be in samAdhi ; deep trance and union with the supreme .

so returning to the OP ....'moksa' who is worty of it ? .......the surendered , those that have gone beyond attatchments .

 

[Metempsychosis]

There is no consistent definition of Moksha. Even withing a single tradition,there are major differences.
I personally do not limit the definition of Moksha to the Jnana Yoga Version which is Nirguna brahman or it's Buddhist counterpart Nirvana.Similar concept of Henosis is present in Platonic traditions which has influenced mystery religions within Christian,Islamic and Judaism religions.Sufism and Hasidism have their own names for Henosis.
The Vaishnava followers aim at performing devotional service to Lord Vishnu.This is also Moksha.
Further,there is Karma Yoga -wherein you act selflessly in the service of others.Again,this will also lead to Liberation.Karma Yoga can be compared to the 'Eudamonia'(state of perfect virtue) in Greek Traditions.I think martyrs and social service workers can attain this state more easily than others.

So,Moksha can be attained not just by expanding your consciousness through yogic methods,but also by spreading love and broadly in being in service of all living beings.Much of all this can be done with or without being a Hindu (or even without believing in a God).In summary,my definition of moksha is to Divinise(realise) your own being,obtain spiritual wisdom along the way,make societal impact(directly or secretly through inner worlds),spread love and increase social harmony through through virtuous behavior(ethics).Anyone who does this is on the road to Moksha or whatever you call it.

 

[Ekanta]

Or the Word moksha carry the definition in itself:
moha (delusion) and kShaya (destruction), mo(h)a + kSha(ya).

 

[Stormcry]

Who achieved moksha without following hindu sanatana dharma?

search ....search and tell me his name.

 

[Kalidas]

There is no consistent definition of Moksha. Even withing a single tradition,there are major differences.
I personally do not limit the definition of Moksha to the Jnana Yoga Version which is Nirguna brahman or it's Buddhist counterpart Nirvana.Similar concept of Henosis is present in Platonic traditions which has influenced mystery religions within Christian,Islamic and Judaism religions.Sufism and Hasidism have their own names for Henosis.
The Vaishnava followers aim at performing devotional service to Lord Vishnu.This is also Moksha.
Further,there is Karma Yoga -wherein you act selflessly in the service of others.Again,this will also lead to Liberation.Karma Yoga can be compared to the 'Eudamonia'(state of perfect virtue) in Greek Traditions.I think martyrs and social service workers can attain this state more easily than others.

So,Moksha can be attained not just by expanding your consciousness through yogic methods,but also by spreading love and broadly in being in service of all living beings.Much of all this can be done with or without being a Hindu (or even without believing in a God).In summary,my definition of moksha is to Divinise(realise) your own being,obtain spiritual wisdom along the way,make societal impact(directly or secretly through inner worlds),spread love and increase social harmony through through virtuous behavior(ethics).Anyone who does this is on the road to Moksha or whatever you call it.

what a great point, and I would agree that there are a LOT of good people out there that have lived that were not Hindu.

 

[Vinayaka]

There is no consistent definition of Moksha. Even withing a single tradition,there are major differences.

So,Moksha can be attained not just by expanding your consciousness through yogic methods,but also by spreading love and broadly in being in service of all living beings.

So which definition of moksha is the second sentence using? Your personal definition?

 

[Maya3]

Who achieved moksha without following hindu sanatana dharma?

search ....search and tell me his name.

Which religion did you practice in your past life?
And how did you feel about Moksha and non Hindu religions then?

Maya

 

[Valjean]

Who achieved moksha without following hindu sanatana dharma?

search ....search and tell me his name.

Enlightenment is not the exclusive domain of Sanatana Dharma. Expanded consciousness is a universal neurologic phenomenon, described by mystics throughout history and in various cultures throughout the world.
So widespread is the condition that Aldous Huxley described it as a Perennial Philosophy. The Perennial Philosophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The human brain is anatomically and physiologically identical throughout our species. Why would this neurological condition be restricted only to persons of a particular region or belief system?

 

[Poeticus]

Who achieved moksha without following hindu sanatana dharma?

search ....search and tell me his name.

Atilla, Genghis, Hulagu, Shaka Zulu, Menelik II, Hannibal...

 

[Valjean]

What do vicious, sociopathic, terrorists have to do with moksha?

 

[Poeticus]

What do vicious, sociopathic, terrorists have to do with moksha?

Psst. Your opinion is noted.

 

[Vinayaka]

Expanded consciousness is a universal neurologic phenomenon, described by mystics throughout history and in various cultures throughout the world.
So widespread is the condition that Aldous Huxley described it as a Perennial Philosophy. The Perennial Philosophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The human brain is anatomically and physiologically identical throughout our species. Why would this neurological condition be restricted only to persons of a particular region or belief system?

Indeed there probably is some universal phenomenon, but just because one person or even several souls say it is the same everywhere, it doesn't mean it actually is. Since this phenomenon is beyond words, who is to say that there aren't several different phenomenas, all beyond words. They could very well be all the same but they may not be either.

500 different people could describe a city, 500 different cities in fact, and the descriptions would all sound similar. "People everywhere, hustle, bustle, large buildings, noise, machines, smells"

 

[Vinayaka]

Which religion did you practice in your past life?
And how did you feel about Moksha and non Hindu religions then?

Maya

Good point. We're not talking about individual people after all, but individual souls. Most of us have probably had bodies in all the major religions at one time or another.

 

[Metempsychosis]

So which definition of moksha is the second sentence using? Your personal definition?

It refers to Karma and Bhakti Yoga as mentioned in Bhagavat Gita.The Bhagavat Gita never puts one Yoga above another.

 

[Metempsychosis]

what a great point, and I would agree that there are a LOT of good people out there that have lived that were not Hindu.

While the moral and philanthropic stance can be good measure of one's nearness towards Moksha,the Jnana Yogi will differ in this because morality is man-made and moral laws vary from one place to another. And moral laws can be violated by a person in a Nirvana State,because they are inferior and subject to psychical laws(of the soul and supersoul),but for vast majority of us this is not true.

Jnana Yoga though is other-worldly and anti-family,there are very people who can actually follow it.The path itself is very much biased towards male Population and those who are physically near to a living master.For example,to a person living in Iceland the chances of meeting a self realized person and even learning from him is remote when compared to those who are in the Himalayan region.Again,it does go not well really poor and disabled people,whose everyday problems are so great,that such a luxurious meditative practice is certainly infeasible. Furthermore,there are many so-called Yogi's who declare that they have achieved Jeevan-mukti,but there is absolutely no way to know for sure whether that a person is really a liberated being.Add to this the confusion with the conflicting nature of opposing schools of philosophy,that one really wonders where he is moving towards.While on one hand your chances of obtaining first hand gnostic knowledge is very less unless you do Jnana yoga,there are definitely ways in which we can achieve(or move nearer toward) the goal of self-liberation by following Karma/Bhakti Yoga.

So,what I am coming to say is-Philosophy as such must also solve everyday problems instead of just being a practice which allows people to get to some neurological state which cannot be verified by others(who are not themselves liberated).

 

[Vinayaka]

It refers to Karma and Bhakti Yoga as mentioned in Bhagavat Gita.The Bhagavat Gita never puts one Yoga above another.

Okay.... and for those Hindus who don't hold the Gita is such high regard? What of them?

I do totally agree with your take on jnana. I feel too many take it as an intellectual approach.

I'm more about this... http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/hinduism-dir/155437-yogas-stages.html

 

[Metempsychosis]

Okay.... and for those Hindus who don't hold the Gita is such high regard? What of them?

I do totally agree with your take on jnana. I feel too many take it as an intellectual approach.

I'm more about this... http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/hinduism-dir/155437-yogas-stages.html

Gita gives a gist of various paths available to Moksha instead of elaborating on it.Upanishads on the other hand describes the Jnana/Bhakti yoga more elaborately.
Both Jnana and Bhakti yoga see Karma yoga as subservient to their own paths.I do not know how of it is true,because even if you take Bhakti/Jnana yoga you will be performing actions (so Karma yoga is always useful).Karma Yoga is definitely useful for self-purification and self-less service. Jnana Yoga is not just intellectual approach,it mandates a sort of lifestyle that requires celibacy,some practical experience and of course burning renunciation of family life and other luxuries.

While your take on the various stages of spiritual practice,is more on the lines of Jnana Yoga,wherein nirvikalpa samadhi is the highest,it assumes that Bhakti yoga to be a tool in the overall process.For Sankara,Bhakti is constant remembrance of one's identity with Brahman.This stance was/will be scrutinized and criticized by Vaishnava who have Bhakti itself as its end goal.Further,remember Raja Yoga is based on Sankhya which has its own differences with Vedanta (Ishwara being source of prakriti,instead of being two different entities).Again,Shaivite traditions combines Vedanta with their own agamas and tantra -but the goal in majority of cases is Gnosis-Jnana Yoga.None of these traditions deny the essence of Bhagavat Gita,even though they do not hold Gita in such high regard.

My method would be choose an integral approach which combines all the methods Karma/Bhakti along with some sort of intellectual Jnana approach and use that until one ripens for towards Saguna/Sibeeja Samadhi and when one come to this state,then and then only the real question of dvaita/advaita occurs because until then there is individuality.Also,we should remember not duality is not non-duality.Even you become a monk,the sort of realization that you aspire in Raja Yoga will require several decades of constant practice - for most people though this is completely infeasible.

 

[Vinayaka]

My method would be choose an integral approach which combines all the methods Karma/Bhakti along with some sort of intellectual Jnana approach and use that until one ripens for towards Saguna/Sibeeja Samadhi and when one come to this state,then and then only the real question of dvaita/advaita occurs because until then there is individuality.Also,we should remember not duality is not non-duality.Even you become a monk,the sort of realization that you aspire in Raja Yoga will require several decades of constant practice - for most people though this is completely infeasible.

This parallels my thoughts and the teaching of the lineage I adhere to. It is refreshing to hear someone speak of jnana in this way, rather than book study.