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More attacks on Free Speech in the UK

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Are we talking about the same thing? Rwanda as a recent issue was the tory government planning on sending asylum seekers and refugees (of any colour) to Rwanda. Clearly meant to be a disincentive and a dog whistle for the far right and racist contingent. No machetes involved.
I am talking about the Rwandan genocide that happened in the 1990s. Never heard Tories affiliated at all. I did think it was a horrible situation though.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
I strongly think wisdom points to the need for limits on that.
Of course there should be limits. The problem I see with what's being proposed in the video is that the person speaking is saying, "Don't worry about what the limits are, you can just trust us to figure all that out for you", and apparently on a case-to-case basis. You can see why that would be a problem right?

It's like having a traffic law that just says, "Don't drive too fast" instead of posting an actual speed limit. A law like that would be way too subject to biased and lopsided enforcement.

Edit: not to mention a recipe for overenforcement and all kinds of other abuses.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
It's been investigated and researched from many angles. We even see it in England now where misinformation spread on social media is leading to violence. It

Seems like a complex correlation / causation problem.

That said, I'm no fan of misinformation, but censorship is not a good solution. Censorship is perhaps the most dangerous solution.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Seems like a complex correlation / causation problem.

That said, I'm no fan of misinformation, but censorship is not a good solution. Censorship is perhaps the most dangerous solution.
More dangerous than misinformation that has led to genocide? Yes, it is censorship. But it's censoring a twaked out version of shouting fire in a crowded theater (can't do that because someone actually did do it and it got a lot of people hurt and some killed).
And it's not as complex as it seems. For years now social media has been the epicenter of violence inducing misinformation. This has been observed time and time and time again. People hear it and have their views affirmed on social media.
The rest is more complicated than just following the news. A part of it is a for profit corporation doing what they do in modern America, and this exploiting human emotion for gain. This is where their algorithms are problematic because it's these algorithms that are promoting material that sells, material thaylt exploits human psychology to the max. The rest of the issues are well known to even students of psychology, sociology and anthropology. Group thought, moral outrage, mob behaviors and hundreds of thousands of years of evolution that still has us all deferring towards tribalism and the need to fit in and be accepted by our tribes. Amd it's just as true today as it was thousands of years ago, after someone casts the first stone its suddenly easier for everyone else to join in the killing.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Which she felt unable to explain to me and instead raised the subject of hate. Funny how a discussion about unrest seems to change people.
But thanks for the info mikkel.
I didn't hate on anyone for the record.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Which she felt unable to explain to me and instead raised the subject of hate. Funny how a discussion about unrest seems to change people.
But thanks for the info mikkel.
Oh one more thing - I am super busy. You know, with real life and all that. That is the only reason why I didn't fully explain my response to you. Silly me, I thought a general response would be sufficient.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
No one said that you did. But your comment certainly implied, without any reason, that I did.
Here's what I said:

Someone else brought up Rwanda, not me. Hate on them.
Anyway, it's a pretty obscure thread and I freely admit that I haven't been all that attuned to it.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
More dangerous than misinformation that has led to genocide? Yes, it is censorship. But it's censoring a twaked out version of shouting fire in a crowded theater (can't do that because someone actually did do it and it got a lot of people hurt and some killed).
And it's not as complex as it seems. For years now social media has been the epicenter of violence inducing misinformation. This has been observed time and time and time again. People hear it and have their views affirmed on social media.
The rest is more complicated than just following the news. A part of it is a for profit corporation doing what they do in modern America, and this exploiting human emotion for gain. This is where their algorithms are problematic because it's these algorithms that are promoting material that sells, material thaylt exploits human psychology to the max. The rest of the issues are well known to even students of psychology, sociology and anthropology. Group thought, moral outrage, mob behaviors and hundreds of thousands of years of evolution that still has us all deferring towards tribalism and the need to fit in and be accepted by our tribes. Amd it's just as true today as it was thousands of years ago, after someone casts the first stone its suddenly easier for everyone else to join in the killing.
For the sake of discussion I can grant you all of that, and you still haven't made your point.

Might there be economic considerations? Could it be that people's basic needs aren't being met? Could it be that watching mother earth being destroyed plays a part? What if knowing that your children will never be able to afford a home has some impact?

How do you eliminate all of these (and countless other concerns), to arrive at the conclusion that social media is THE culprit?

And again, I despise social media. I think it's extremely dangerous, and that humans probably aren't evolved enough to handle it safely. And with all that said, I still think censorship is worse.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Tell me, who is smart enough, moral enough, to decide for you, what you cannot listen to?

Well, I don't have to listen to incitement to violence in countries, where that is consider illegal.

The actual answer I can't give because you only accept objective, true, logical, with evidence answers. Apparently because you subjectively don't like subjective answers, when there are no objective ones possible.
 
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