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More attacks on Free Speech in the UK

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Why should social media be treated differently to any other form of media.

Because social media is something that the public participates in (hence the name).

It's one thing to hold a news network or a newspaper to certain standards, but when the government starts telling you or me what we are and aren't allowed to say on Twitter or Facebook, that's something completely different.

They had better have a damn good reason and they better be able to explain it in terms that make sense and set some pretty clear parameters: something a bit more clear and specific than " . . Includes the publishing or distributing of material that's insulting or offensive".

There may indeed be cause for concern in some of the areas discussed. However, IMO discussion here has lost credibility for one very obvious reason. The crimes in question were done by right wing mobs and the main complainers are RF's most renowned right wing commentators.
I am in no doubt that if the mobs were left wingers we would be experiencing a very different tone.

The fact that neither side is willing to listen to the other side, just because they are the other side, has a lot to do with why the world's is the big chaotic mesh it is right now.

And it has everything to do with why these threads never really go anywhere (except in circles).
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Yes. I discuss in a thread that unchecked and uncensored social media has lead to deadly violence and genocide around the world.
social media is a cancer.

censorship is not the solution.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Such speech must be exposed to sunlight, not censored.
I strongly think wisdom points to the need for limits on that. The civil law already provides penalties for certain forms of defamation, and the criminal law for certain kinds of conspiracy (including everyone's favorite, market rigging), and for sedition. You can't disrespect the judge in court without penalty. And so on.

Many civilized countries have laws against hate speech >Hate speech laws by country - Wikipedia<.

There is nothing sacred about the right to mislead the public with deliberate falsehoods. There is nothing sacred about the wishes and the acts of the mob. What was a good idea in 1789 is not necessarily a good idea in 2024.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Informative AND super scary. Are you sure about that? I don't know, but that seems inconsistent with Denmark..

Racismeparagraffen: "personer trues, forhånes eller nedværdiges på grund af race, hudfarve, national eller etnisk oprindelse, tro eller seksuelle orientering, straffes med bøde, hæfte eller fængsel indtil 2 år."

The racism paragraph: "persons are threatened, mocked or degraded because of race, skin colour, national or ethnic origin, faith or sexual orientation, are punished with a fine, fine or imprisonment for up to 2 years."

Make of it, what you want.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
social media is a cancer.

censorship is not the solution.
It has reached the point of shouting fire in a crowded theater, but far worse because it has led to genocide in this case.
Censorship is the only solution when entire villages are massacred and people are learning the hate from false information spread with impunity over social media.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I do not wish to get into the pros and cons of that. What does get to me is the implication that tories would do something. The whole of Britains post war experience shows that this is not the case.

I was once working in the London offices of a multinational, there were a lot of cleaners and apparently a lot of them were illegals. Something happened and an angry member of staff made it clear that he was going to phone a relative who worked for the immigration authorities.

Some time went by and nothing happened. He contacted his relative and was told that they had been put on hold. They were not allowed to upset a system of maintaining cheap labour. There role was to just keep a lid on it.

That was in Thatchers time. So if you are into naming and blaming, at least be fair.

It’s been a failure of succcessive governments to deal with this issue,the EU encouraged cheap labour with free movement and Mrs Merkel opened the floodgates to over a million unknowns,we can see the effect it’s had on Norway Sweden and Denmark.

Next we had labours Blair and Brown who had the idea of hugging the world and let over a 100,000 in and then admit it was a mistake.

There’s no doubt that controlled immigration has great benefits because you get to pick those that will contribute to the system but a constant stream of unknown illegals is unsustainable and a strain on the system which is already under pressure.

Tomorrow I and my colleagues will be dealing with homeless people and those in food and fuel poverty,this will include migrants,they will be issued a sleeping bag and a tent (lucky it’s summer) and some food with a plate knife and fork plus clothes if they need them,we can put a plaster on their problems but we cannot fix them.

So being fair it’s successive governments that are at fault for this mess and it will only get worse because this government will not confront the issue either.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
It’s been a failure of succcessive governments to deal with this issue,the EU encouraged cheap labour with free movement and Mrs Merkel opened the floodgates to over a million unknowns,we can see the effect it’s had on Norway Sweden and Denmark.

...

What does Norway have to do with that? I might have overlooked something?
 

Secret Chief

Veteran Member
Such things can leave powerful memories. The first time I saw a racist demo in my area was mid 1970's. I went and watched. There was about one or two hundred mostly young men marching with union flags. I recognised one, a childhood friend. He later became a drug dealer and got murdered.

I was leaning against a wall which bordered a grassy space. I was aware that some tiny children were playing there. I watched the march approach and then my reality changed. They were looking in my direction and starting to jeer. They were not jeering me, they were booing these tiny kids.
There were two white kids about five and a smaller black child about three, and they were heckled and booed for playing together.

I have heard people talking about the holocaust and they are puzzled about how it could happen. Sadly, since that day I do not have that innocence. I saw how it can happen, I saw real hate.

So I am not really able to talk about the civil rights with any ease in such cases. I see vermin, and it is a real struggle to maintain a veneer of civilization.
Veneer, yes. The likes of Himmler and Goebbels were not born evil and then grew up in a one-off sick society. The next Himmler and Goebbels live in the next street, they replastered your hall, they are a driving instructor, their dad plays in the local sports team.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
An official in the UK says:



Anybody here support this police policy?

x.com


Yep, 100%

Social media is polluted by hate speech and incitement to violence, and the owners of the platforms have shown no interest in self regulation. Elon Musk is clearly a serial offender who should be held to account. I consider him to be a malicious foreign actor and a threat to the peace and stability of the U.K.

Just to be clear, there is existing legislation which can be applied here, wherever laws have been broken.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
I strongly think wisdom points to the need for limits on that. The civil law already provides penalties for certain forms of defamation, and the criminal law for certain kinds of conspiracy (including everyone's favorite, market rigging), and for sedition. You can't disrespect the judge in court without penalty. And so on.

Many civilized countries have laws against hate speech >Hate speech laws by country - Wikipedia<.

There is nothing sacred about the right to mislead the public with deliberate falsehoods. There is nothing sacred about the wishes and the acts of the mob. What was a good idea in 1789 is not necessarily a good idea in 2024.
I agree that there are currently limits on free speech. I do not think those should be further abridged.

As for acts of mobs, again, you're shifting the goalposts, we're talking about speech.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
It has reached the point of shouting fire in a crowded theater, but far worse because it has led to genocide in this case.
Censorship is the only solution when entire villages are massacred and people are learning the hate from false information spread with impunity over social media.

That's a very complex accusation, seems hard to prove..
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Yep, 100%

Social media is polluted by hate speech and incitement to violence, and the owners of the platforms have shown no interest in self regulation. Elon Musk is clearly a serial offender who should be held to account. I consider him to be a malicious foreign actor and a threat to the peace and stability of the U.K.

Just to be clear, there is existing legislation which can be applied here, wherever laws have been broken.

It seems you're answering a different question. Read the quote in the OP again, thanks.
 
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