Mormons: DNA Shows that Native North Americans were Never Jewish. What is your Response to This?

[Caladan]

Mormons: DNA Shows that Native North Americans were Never Jewish. What is your Response to This?

Shock and awe. I would hope. unfortunately blind faith will take thinking men straight into the abyss hand in hand by their own choosing no less.
The absurdity of having Israelites running around in North America after the fall of the House of Israel is outstanding. a real possibility is that Northern Israelite tribes live on among the Pashtun people of Afghanistan, preserving a distinct remnant of their old ways.
Native Americans had a very distinctive society. completely unrelated to that of the Israelites who firmly believed in a centralized power. in a centralized Temple. in a capital. and in surviving the geopolitical daily life of the near east. among the Assyrians, the Babylonians. and other cultures of renown.
There are no genetic or archaeological possibilities to confirm the absurd writings inspired by Joseph Smith.

 

[TJ73]

I will write from THE TRUTH ABOUT HISTORY;
"Over the course of thousands of years, successive waves of people have made their way into North and South America. Some of the newcomers came on foot, others, almost certainly, by boat.

It is now possible to use a range of scientific methods - DNA profiles, linguistic studies, skull measurement - to trace the origins of these different peoples. These findings are being checked against the archaeological record to try to compile a time frame and map of peopling of the Americas.

The tribal groups that we know today all hark back to different parts of north-eastern Asia, and came in separate waves of immigration. If any people did come from from Australia - or even Europe - they have vanished."

The book gives details on the research and the theory of the migrations. Very interesting stuff. A large portion of Native people, Blackfoot, Sioux and Cherokee, are though to have come from Japan.

I would personally like that idea as then I share some distant Asian ancestry. that would complete it. the only thing I was missing was Asian.

 

[Katzpur]

I just love it when people resurrect 10 month-old threads, particularly ones this long. Who's going to go back and read the last 17 pages to get up to speed on this issue? (Truth be told, very few will really want to get up to speed; it's much easier to speak in ignorance than to be bothered to do your homework.)

I have 26 posts on this thread. No one has responded to the main points I've made, although a great many have attempted to flat out disregard the facts I have presented. In case anybody's interested, they are numbers 10, 11, 13, 44, 45, 46, 47, 49, 50, 52, 70, 73, 77, 81, 85, 86, 90, 91, 92, 100, 101, 129, 130, 131, 133 and 134.

The initial premise as stated in the OP is flawed. I already explained that, but it has been ignored for 162 posts. I'm not holding my breath, expecting anything to change at this point.

 

[TJ73]

I'm sorry KP. You're right i didn't read the whole thing. I was posting because I just recently read the information I posted.I'm sorry if it was in any way offensive to you, since I am not aware of the whole post. you're the last person i want to be insensitive to. You're a sweetheart.

 

[Katzpur]

I'm sorry KP. You're right i didn't read the whole thing. I was posting because I just recently read the information I posted.I'm sorry if it was in any way offensive to you, since I am not aware of the whole post. you're the last person i want to be insensitive to. You're a sweetheart.

Don't worry about that for a minute. I know that wasn't your intent. Nobody's going to want to read 162 posts, and you weren't a member back when the thread was started, so you couldn't be expected to have done any differently. :hug:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Shock and awe. I would hope. unfortunately blind faith will take thinking men straight into the abyss hand in hand by their own choosing no less.
The absurdity of having Israelites running around in North America after the fall of the House of Israel is outstanding. a real possibility is that Northern Israelite tribes live on among the Pashtun people of Afghanistan, preserving a distinct remnant of their old ways.
Native Americans had a very distinctive society. completely unrelated to that of the Israelites who firmly believed in a centralized power. in a centralized Temple. in a capital. and in surviving the geopolitical daily life of the near east. among the Assyrians, the Babylonians. and other cultures of renown.
There are no genetic or archaeological possibilities to confirm the absurd writings inspired by Joseph Smith.

Agreed........:sad:

 

[Jacksnyte]

This is going to sound weird to you, but even if the BoM was written by a liar, if it leads one person to true spirituality, it's still worth something. I can't just offhand dismiss a religion because parts of it are proven inaccurate. Not when it has changed the lives of people for the better.

In Chaoism, one is free to use fiction to forward spirituality. I have heard of people honoring everything from the entire Hindu pantheon to the characters of the original Star Trek TV series, and they all get results.

 

[gerobbins]

Do a more serious study. Jews are a nation, an ethnic group (ethnic groups) , and in some cases a group of religion.

Its still a religion, DNA can't distinguish the difference whether or not. Its nothing to do with an ethnic group.

 

[Autodidact]

Its still a religion, DNA can't distinguish the difference whether or not. Its nothing to do with an ethnic group.

The OP is referring to the ethnic group of ancient Hebrews from the Middle East, not the modern religion of Judaism. Does that help?

 

[gerobbins]

The OP is referring to the ethnic group of ancient Hebrews from the Middle East, not the modern religion of Judaism. Does that help?

However, Ancient Hebrews from the middle east would also be the same as non ancient Hebrews from the middle east as well. Its still is a religion no matter how you look at it.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

I just love it when people resurrect 10 month-old threads, particularly ones this long. Who's going to go back and read the last 17 pages to get up to speed on this issue? (Truth be told, very few will really want to get up to speed; it's much easier to speak in ignorance than to be bothered to do your homework.)

Is it sad that I actually went back and read the whole thread? :cover:

 

[Autodidact]

However, Ancient Hebrews from the middle east would also be the same as non ancient Hebrews from the middle east as well. Its still is a religion no matter how you look at it.

The point is the DNA indicates that the Americas were not settled by people from the Middle East at all, Jewish or otherwise. They were settled by people from Siberia.

 

[Autodidact]

Is it sad that I actually went back and read the whole thread? :cover:

Well, you know. Some of us have a life, some not so much. :sarcastic

 

[Caladan]

The point is the DNA indicates that the Americas were not settled by people from the Middle East at all, Jewish or otherwise. They were settled by people from Siberia.

There you go again. ruining everything with the facts.

 

[Katzpur]

There you go again. ruining everything with the facts.

Facts? Hardly. We do not claim that "the Americas were settled by people from the Middle East." We claim that two nuclear families plus one single male came here from the Middle East, settled somewhere on the American continent and intermarried with the existing population, roughly 2600 years ago. Nobody has proven that claim to be false. On the other hand, I have provided some very specific scientific evidence which explains why it would be highly unlikely for the genetic markers of those 30 or so individuals to be evident in the DNA of the American Indians today.

If two Native American families plus one single Native American male had migrated to the Middle East 2600 years ago and had intermarried with the native Middle-Eastern population, would anybody today claim that the Middle East was settled by the Native Americans? Would you expect to see DNA evidence to support such a claim? Of course not, but this is exactly what the OP is stating that Mormons believe -- except in reverse. So if you're going to even pretend to concern yourself with "facts," you might start by at least getting the initial premise right.

 

[Caladan]

Facts? Hardly. We do not claim that "the Americas were settled by people from the Middle East." We claim that two nuclear families plus one single male came here from the Middle East, settled somewhere on the American continent and intermarried with the existing population, roughly 2600 years ago. Nobody has proven that claim to be false. On the other hand, I have provided some very specific scientific evidence which explains why it would be highly unlikely for the genetic markers of those 30 or so individuals to be evident in the DNA of the American Indians today.

Which is 100% BS. and has no basis in reality, history or genetic evidence.
No one has proven the claim that Gabriel had a little pet talk with Muhammad in the cave is false either. but you don't see most modern people in North America wear a Galabia and get their new copy of the Noble Qur'an.
We already know. that it would be impossible to trace the claim that Middle easterners have genetically reincarnated into Native Americans. which only makes the claim more ridiculous, baseless and eventually obsolete.

If two Native American families plus one single Native American male had migrated to the Middle East 2600 years ago and had intermarried with the native Middle-Eastern population

How? how would they do that?
How would Native Americans reach the Middle east. why would they reach the middle east? why not stop at another geographical location along the long route to the middle east?

 

[Katzpur]

Which is 100% BS. and has no basis in reality, history or genetic evidence.

If our actual claim is BS, either disprove it or admit that you can't. Whether you say it's BS once or hundred times, it's all the same. Repeating yourself again and again does not constitute refuting the claim.

We already know. that it would be impossible to trace the claim that Middle easterners have genetically reincarnated into Native Americans. which only makes the claim more ridiculous, baseless and eventually obsolete.

We're talking reincarnation here? When and how did we manage to veer off in that direction?

How? how would they do that?
How would Native Americans reach the Middle east. why would they reach the middle east? why not stop at another geographical location along the long route to the middle east?

That is absolutely beside the point. The OP is discussing DNA evidence of such a migration, not the logistics of it. Your attempt to change the subject is noted and ignored.

 

[Caladan]

If our actual claim is BS, either disprove it or admit that you can't. Whether you say it's BS once or hundred times, it's all the same. Repeating yourself again and again does not constitute refuting the claim.

I am sorry Katzpur. but let me be the first one to introduce you to the world of science. in which in order to prove a theory, no matter how insignificant to a greater research or how inane it is, you have to provide a series of evidence on which you have laboured for hours either in the lab, in the field, and supported it with hundreds of hours of leaning on the academic books. in order to verify with yourself over and over again, that you got it right.
In contrast. repeating absurdities that the rest of the world doesn't relate to other than a small insignificant religious minority will cause no effect on the general public of the world. we will be unmoved as ever. and will stick to the scientific articles which are published and produced by hard working, honest, and reliable men and women of science and academy.

We're talking reincarnation here? When and how did we manage to veer off in that direction?

Oh boy. you even read internet posts literally. it is a phrase. a term. a figure of speech. not the actual spiritual terminology.

That is absolutely beside the point. The OP is discussing DNA evidence of such a migration, not the logistics of it. Your attempt to change the subject is noted and ignored.

Actually you did. I just gave you 100% logical response and it just went swoosh across your face. yet somehow you missed it. you discussed the logistics with me. so I answered you. asking for the very basics. yet you are not willing to even do that. it is beyond me then. why do you hold such beliefs in the first place. if you are not willing to logically or 'scientifically' examine their possibility. the logistic, geographical, genetic, archaeological, the lack of any historical support and evidence. you know. the real physical material. the rest of us rely on in order to support our claims, so that no one catches us with our pants down.

 

[Deborah Judge]

I had a pretty room mate that somehow got singled out by mormons as fair game. I told them, "If you will come to my church, I will go to yours." The one who had been proselytizing the longest, recognized the challenge, and agreed to come to my church. Within 10 minutes of the elders being at my church, a woman came up to them and told them that she had been a high up leader of a part of the Mormon church, and they actually recognized who she was. I still do not know what that woman told them, but after she prayed with them they were ready to go.
In the car on the way back to their apartment, they were really quiet. Finally, the elder who had not been proselytizing very long said "You aren't going to want to come to our church are you." It was more of a statement than a question. Then I asked them both, "If Jesus died on the cross for the sins of all, and Christianity obviously survived and came over to the Americas, then why would there be a need for Him to come to the Americas? His work was finished when he said 'It is finished.'"
It took them another couple of minutes to speak after that, and when they did, they said "Thank you, and good night." Never saw them again.
It doesn't matter that their whole belief system is grounded in lies, what matters is that they recognized the truth when they heard it, because it was said in love and not criticism.

 

[Caladan]

It doesn't matter that their whole belief system is grounded in lies, what matters is that they recognized the truth when they heard it, because it was said in love and not criticism.

And here is the difference between true desert religions and cultures such as Jewish and Islamic from North American and the remnants of European Christianity. they convey what you call truth, and what they would call the harsh measure of reality in judgement and not in love, which is unreliable for the most part, as it is prone to bias. while judgement is an assessment of actual events, free from emotional baggage or interest.