That's strange. If you know your religion well, you would have understood that there is no god but God, the God of the universe, the God of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Aron, David, Solomon, etc. Do you believe there is more than one god?
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Mosque at Ground Zero
- Thread starter 6Michael6Bennett6
- Start date
That's strange. If you know your religion well, you would have understood that there is no god but God, the God of the universe, the God of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Aron, David, Solomon, etc. Do you believe there is more than one god?
logician
Well-Known Member
The same could be said of your credibility, Olbermann obviously either goes over your head, or you're an over the cliff RWer who enjoys the FOX hate machine.
croak
Trickster
It is a legal right. I don't know what every person opposing the building believes, and the reasons for said beliefs, so I'm not going to dismiss them as "bigots and unpatriotic snobs". I will say that I do not see any good reason to oppose the building's construction, but I wouldn't say that those opposing it shouldn't be able to say what they want (within lawful boundaries).
Are you saying I'm a hard-liner?
love
tri-polar optimist
I believe that one of the most important rights for any human being is the right to follow their hearts and practice their religion of choice or to have no religion at all.
But I must ask myself why this choice of location.
Non Muslims are constantly being acused of being insensitive to Muslim beliefs.
Some doofus draws a cartoon depicting Muhammed and riots break out all over the world.
The Pope makes some reference to something that happened a thousand years ago and riots break out all over the world.
Let's just say for instance that the people of New York and the families of the victims welcome the Mosque/cultural center as a jester of good will to show they do not blame the religion of Islam and recognize it was minority factions declared war on the U. S. This should be the American way, agreed? Let us set an example for peace.
But along comes another small faction led by another Timothy McVey and levels the whole place and everyone in it.
Will the Muslims of the world stand back and scratch their heads and say "you know what, maybe that wasn't such a great idea."
Who knows? But probably not. I think the concensus would be that ever non Muslim in America donated a match.
While I am on a roll let's picture another scenario. The Muslim dreamers who see the place in two hundred years as a destination for Muslims second only to Mecca. The location of the begining of Islam's greatess achievement, the conquest of the New World.
:fox:
Any one else out there with a wild imagination who can suggest why they would choose this location?
But I must ask myself why this choice of location.
Non Muslims are constantly being acused of being insensitive to Muslim beliefs.
Some doofus draws a cartoon depicting Muhammed and riots break out all over the world.
The Pope makes some reference to something that happened a thousand years ago and riots break out all over the world.
Let's just say for instance that the people of New York and the families of the victims welcome the Mosque/cultural center as a jester of good will to show they do not blame the religion of Islam and recognize it was minority factions declared war on the U. S. This should be the American way, agreed? Let us set an example for peace.
But along comes another small faction led by another Timothy McVey and levels the whole place and everyone in it.
Will the Muslims of the world stand back and scratch their heads and say "you know what, maybe that wasn't such a great idea."
Who knows? But probably not. I think the concensus would be that ever non Muslim in America donated a match.
While I am on a roll let's picture another scenario. The Muslim dreamers who see the place in two hundred years as a destination for Muslims second only to Mecca. The location of the begining of Islam's greatess achievement, the conquest of the New World.
:fox:
Any one else out there with a wild imagination who can suggest why they would choose this location?
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Because real estate in Manhattan isn't exactly easy to come by? If you get a property that you can afford, you jump on it.
wa:do
wa:do
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Jews do not worship a God who condemns Jews to burn in Hell.
Engyo
Prince of Dorkness!
Partisan Gridlock
Irrational fear of 'mosque' hardly unprecedented
Posted 8/18/2010 9:50 AM CDT
Opposition to efforts by Muslim Americans to build a community center called Park 51 on the same hallowed ground on which the New York Dolls Gentlemen's club, a McDonald's and an Off Track Betting parlor now stand boils down to this: Muslim extremists can't defeat America militarily, so they're trying to undermine the country by using our freedoms against us.
The belief underlying opposition to the community center is that because those who attacked us on 9/11 were Muslims, all Muslims should be prohibited from building anywhere in the vicinity. This isn't a matter of anti-Muslim bigotry, opponents claim: It is instead a reaction to the fact that a monstrous crime was committed in the name of those who now want to build. If that's true, then community center opponents should also want to prevent the building of LDS churches in Cedar City, Utah because of another religiously-motivated atrocity committed on September 11:
The Mountain Meadows massacre was a mass slaughter of the Fancher-Baker emigrant wagon train at Mountain Meadows, Utah Territory, by a local Mormon militia and members of the Paiute Indian tribe on September 11, 1857. The incident began as an attack, quickly turned into a siege, and eventually culminated in the murder of the unarmed emigrants after their surrender. All of the party except for seventeen children under eight years old were killedabout 120 men, women, and children were killed, but precise numbers have been debated. After the massacre, the corpses of the victims were left decomposing for two years on the open plain, the surviving children were distributed to local Mormon families, and many of the victims' possessions were auctioned off at the Latter-day Saint Cedar City tithing office.
Mormons Mitt Romney and Glenn Beck are no more responsible for the 9/11 attack in 1857 than Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf (Park 51's chief planner) is for the 9/11 attacks in 2001. Attributing to all the motives of a few is not only morally reprehensible, it's anti-American, irrational and stupid.
But the desire to lash out at disfavored groups isn't new in America. That Japan was defeated in World War II, for example, didn't mean that Americans wanted Japanese tourists frolicking on beaches just miles from Pearl Harbor. They didn't. In the late 80s, in fact,
The cab driver, the mayor and everyone else who opposed Japanese investment in Hawaii were wrong. That country didn't "take over" the islands. Instead, Japanese businesses built hotels staffed with receptionists who could speak the language, chefs who could roll sushi, and televisions loaded with freaky Japanese game shows because that's what the market demanded.
As a result of Japanese investment, Hawaiians today enjoy billions of dollars in revenue they wouldn't otherwise see. So essential is Japanese investment to Hawaii's economy that Governor Linda Lingle was just in Tokyo in June looking for more. And the memory of those killed at Pearl Harbor has been diminished not one bit.
Lower Manhattan will be similarly enriched by Americans who choose to exercise their Constitutional rights to congregate there in peace.
Irrational fear of 'mosque' hardly unprecedented
Posted 8/18/2010 9:50 AM CDT
Opposition to efforts by Muslim Americans to build a community center called Park 51 on the same hallowed ground on which the New York Dolls Gentlemen's club, a McDonald's and an Off Track Betting parlor now stand boils down to this: Muslim extremists can't defeat America militarily, so they're trying to undermine the country by using our freedoms against us.
The belief underlying opposition to the community center is that because those who attacked us on 9/11 were Muslims, all Muslims should be prohibited from building anywhere in the vicinity. This isn't a matter of anti-Muslim bigotry, opponents claim: It is instead a reaction to the fact that a monstrous crime was committed in the name of those who now want to build. If that's true, then community center opponents should also want to prevent the building of LDS churches in Cedar City, Utah because of another religiously-motivated atrocity committed on September 11:
The Mountain Meadows massacre was a mass slaughter of the Fancher-Baker emigrant wagon train at Mountain Meadows, Utah Territory, by a local Mormon militia and members of the Paiute Indian tribe on September 11, 1857. The incident began as an attack, quickly turned into a siege, and eventually culminated in the murder of the unarmed emigrants after their surrender. All of the party except for seventeen children under eight years old were killedabout 120 men, women, and children were killed, but precise numbers have been debated. After the massacre, the corpses of the victims were left decomposing for two years on the open plain, the surviving children were distributed to local Mormon families, and many of the victims' possessions were auctioned off at the Latter-day Saint Cedar City tithing office.
Mormons Mitt Romney and Glenn Beck are no more responsible for the 9/11 attack in 1857 than Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf (Park 51's chief planner) is for the 9/11 attacks in 2001. Attributing to all the motives of a few is not only morally reprehensible, it's anti-American, irrational and stupid.
But the desire to lash out at disfavored groups isn't new in America. That Japan was defeated in World War II, for example, didn't mean that Americans wanted Japanese tourists frolicking on beaches just miles from Pearl Harbor. They didn't. In the late 80s, in fact,
Hawaii experienced large numbers of Japanese tourists who shopped a great deal, often in Japanese-owned stores, as well as a wave of direct Japanese investment in business and prestigious residential property. In the late 1970s, Japan accounted for something like 60 percent of all foreign-owned assets in the state; by the early 1990s, this number had increased to close to 90 percent. Japanese tourists were visiting Hawaii but staying in now Japanese-owned hotels. Opposition to such Japanese control was widespread, lessened somewhat by the use of American management. . .
The mayor of Honolulu, Frank Fasi, claimed [to the Japanese] We dont want you and we dont need you. I dont want Honolulu to become a suburb of Tokyo.
A Honolulu cabbie summed it up this way in 1973: "What the Japanese couldn't do during World War II, they are trying to do with bags of moneytake over these islands." The mayor of Honolulu, Frank Fasi, claimed [to the Japanese] We dont want you and we dont need you. I dont want Honolulu to become a suburb of Tokyo.
The cab driver, the mayor and everyone else who opposed Japanese investment in Hawaii were wrong. That country didn't "take over" the islands. Instead, Japanese businesses built hotels staffed with receptionists who could speak the language, chefs who could roll sushi, and televisions loaded with freaky Japanese game shows because that's what the market demanded.
As a result of Japanese investment, Hawaiians today enjoy billions of dollars in revenue they wouldn't otherwise see. So essential is Japanese investment to Hawaii's economy that Governor Linda Lingle was just in Tokyo in June looking for more. And the memory of those killed at Pearl Harbor has been diminished not one bit.
Lower Manhattan will be similarly enriched by Americans who choose to exercise their Constitutional rights to congregate there in peace.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Why not this location? Too close? (You can't even see it from Ground Zero).
OK, maybe they find an available location 4 blocks away...oops, still to close for some.
You know, just so no-one is 'offended' we'll just take it off the Island of Manhattan altogether.
Nope, anywhere in New York is still to close.
Maybe Beck and the others are right. We don't need Muslims in this entire country anyway.
Lets just ignore the actual facts and let hate and fear run our "Freedom of Religion" clause.
Then we can go back to being the Christian Nation our reverent forefathers intended.
:sarcastic:sarcastic
arimoff
Active Member
G-D of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, etc does not have a son and gave Israel to Jews not Arabs, nor did he turn Jews in to apes and pigs, see the difference?
Actually it is to Muslims Allah it is the G-D of the Jews but not the other way.
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tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
C'mon guys, don't fight.
There is enough God to go around for everyone....
There is enough God to go around for everyone....
arimoff
Active Member
No body is fighting and I honestly don't really care who believes in what or believes at all, I'm neither trying to impose my believes on to anybody and would accept the same from Muslims but apparently it's something they don't understand, other then trying to impose their believes on others their society constantly spreads false propaganda about others specifically towards Jews.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Are you categorizing ALL Muslims as spreading lies about Jews?
agree with this as well.
urm, hello? i'm a Muslim and i have never tried to impose my beliefs on anyone, and i have absolutely no ill feelings towards Jews or anyone else for that matter.
i would surely hope not, because i have yet to spread one lie about anyone.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Yahweh = Jehovah = Allah = the same exact God that Abraham worshiped which is Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all considered Abrahamic religions. Actually the term "muslim" when translated technically applies to the followers of all three as the word means "submissive to god."
It is of course only fair to ask this question. I have no problem with a christian going to mecca wether its for inspiration or merely a visit. I know there is something about non-muslims not going to mecca, but i don't think its meant like that. You going to mecca represents absolutely no problem at all for me.
How is this in anyway relevant to what i said? Where did i say there aren't radicals among muslims?
Can't you try a little harder at hiding your feelings? I mean really, just act as if this has nothing to do with how you feel about muslims.
Exactly. I think there are many reasons that makes it very less likely that this place would be a "radical nest".
Well, i honestly think its not very complicated. Sure there are some issues concerned with this, but i don't think its hard to manage to decide wether to oppose their right of building it or support it. How one would feel about this is a little different though. I mean you could support it but still feel suspicious or feel that its a little insensitive like others have said in this thread.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Better start running all the Christian institutions out of Europe then, and some parts of North America and South America. And we might as well make the Abrahamic faiths totally non-existent in the Middle East.