Mosque at Ground Zero

[tumbleweed41]

I do know that ALL donations to non profits and ministries are subject to review by the IRS - and are often reviewed by the IRS. This mosque/complex should be no different.

I also know that any large wires or donations from foreign countries are scrutinized not only by the IRS, but by the banks they go through. Since Imam Rauf's Cordoba Initiative has offices in Malaysia - a country that is currently being ripped apart by Islamic extremists and terror attacks - donations coming through that office SHOULD be scrutinized, just as money coming from any other "hot spot" in the world to the US is scrutinized.

According to you, all donations are subject to review by the IRS, and money coming from Hot Spots is also subject to IRS and bank review.

So what's the problem?
Why the questioning of where the money is coming from? The IRS and DHS have the means and authority to check this at any time.
Why the demand for public scrutiny?

 

[Kathryn]

I didn't demand public scrutiny. I didn't demand anything out of the ordinary.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I didn't demand public scrutiny. I didn't demand anything out of the ordinary.

Well, I'll summarize once again:

1. This is not a national decision. This is a zoning decision for the city of New York.

2. If NYC determines that the mosque can be built, let 'em build it.

3. Investigate the source of funding.

4. Monitor the activities if suspicious activities or persons begin to emerge.

5. Go on wid cho bad seffs.

 

[Kathryn]

Come on, Tumbleweed, don't be disengenuous.

That is not a call for the PUBLIC to investigate the funding. It is a call for the funding to go through the same investigative process that can be used on other such organizations - especially those who receive funds and contributions from what are known as hot spots internationally. Like Malaysia.

That being said, to the extent that any other non profit organization's charitable contributions are open to the public - I encourage anyone interested in finding out as much as is legally accessible to the general public - to investigate on their own. Some non profit organizations must list as public record who their donors are.

Since I am not sure of the IRS classification of the Cordoba House, I'm not sure what information is considered open to the public and what isn't.

 

[Kathryn]

Hey, I just found this out (maybe I am the last one here to realize this):

The site of the mosque/community center is only 600 feet from Ground Zero.

Also - part of the landing gear from one of the airplanes crashed into the building that is there now, going thru two floors and severely damaging the integrity of the building.

Interesting.

 

[Kathryn]

More interesting stuff:

The building of the mosque near Ground Zero was criticized by some other Muslims.
One was Sufi Muslim mystic Suleiman Schwartz, Executive Director of a Washington, DC non-profit organization, the Center for Islamic Pluralism. He said that building the mosque barely two blocks from Ground Zero is inconsistent with the Sufi philosophy of simplicity of faith and sensitivity towards others, and "grossly insensitive".[28]
Another founding member of the Center for Islamic Pluralism, Zuhdi Jasser, who is also the founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, a group of Muslim professionals in the Phoenix Valley of Arizona, strongly opposed the mosque, saying:

For us, a mosque was always a place to pray...—not a way to make an ostentatious architectural statement. Ground Zero shouldn't be about promoting Islam. It's the place where war was declared on us as Americans."[28] Neda Bolourchi, a Muslim whose mother died in 9/11, said: "I fear it would become a symbol of victory for militant Muslims around the world."[123]
​

Authors Raheel Raza and Tarek Fatah, board members of the Muslim Canadian Congress, said:

We Muslims know the ... mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation, to thumb our noses at the infidel. The proposal has been made in bad faith, ... as "Fitna," meaning "mischief-making" that is clearly forbidden in the Koran.... As Muslims we are dismayed that our co-religionists have such little consideration for their fellow citizens, and wish to rub salt in their wounds and pretend they are applying a balm to sooth the pain.[124]
​

Hossein Kamaly, Term Assistant Professor of Asian and Middle Eastern Cultures at Barnard College, Columbia University, observed:

After all, it was 19 Egyptian and Saudi Arabian thugs calling themselves Muslims who perpetrated this heinous crime on September 11th. They want to send a message of friendship, but building a mosque where there wasn't one before, is not the most nuanced way of doing that.[125]
​

Akbar Ahmed, Ibn Khaldun Chair of Islamic Studies at American University, while noting that blaming all Muslims for 9/11 was "ridiculous", said:

I don't think the Muslim leadership has fully appreciated the impact of 9/11 on America. They assume Americans have forgotten 9/11 and even, in a profound way, forgiven 9/11, and that has not happened. The wounds remain largely open [...] and when wounds are raw, an episode like constructing a house of worship—even one protected by the Constitution, protected by law—becomes like salt in the wounds.[126]
​

He goes on to say that, in his opinion, if the center is constructed as well as a mosque it should contain a memorial and an ecumenical house of worship.[127]

Park51 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

You English seems just fine most of the time, TashaN.

To recap:






As a Muslim, you probably are not all that aware that people in North America prior to 9/11 knew little to nothing about Islam.
Almost nothing. It is only slightly better today.

What I am meaning is:

In the ignorant minds of the masses.... all Muslims were seen to be violent cowards... due to the statement(s) of the terrorists that cited Islamic scriptures. It took a rather long while to for people to educate themselves to understand that this was a small, radical group of Muslims who were not representative of Muslims IN GENERAL. Many people still do not realize this. In context, I was offering an opinion on how, people who knew nothing about Islam, took the words of the terrorists at face value and wrongly assumed the connection or "guilt by association".

Frankly speaking, the only ones left who still think that Muslims really are violent cowards are those who have not educated themselves about Islam.

Does that make more sense? I don't know that I can make it much plainer.

But if we simply appeased the radicals who are calling for Park51 not to be built, then we're simply enabling their madness. They will not be satisfied by anything less than a complete takeover of America--no conspiracy theory intended, they readily admit it. Which means that if they stop Park51, they will move right on to their next target.

No its not the same, Jews do not worship Allah!!!

Um.

Yahweh = God.
God = Allah.

Use the Transitive Property...

 

[autonomous1one1]

More interesting stuff:

The building of the mosque near Ground Zero was criticized by some other Muslims.
.......
Park51 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Greetings. Thanks for the Wiki reference, never thought to look there and it seems to be quite fair in presenting points of both sides. Here is some more interesting stuff from the Wikipedia reference:

9/11 families

Some relatives of victims of the 9/11 attacks expressed support for the project.


Herb Ouida, whose son Todd died, said: "To say that we're going to condemn a religion and castigate a billion people in the world because they're Muslims, to say that they shouldn't have the ability to pray near the World Trade Center—I don't think that's going to bring people together and cross the divide."


Marvin Bethea, a former EMS worker who was forced to retire in 2004 because of breathing problems caused by working at the 9/11 site, believes racism is a factor in the controversy, He said "even though my life has changed, I don't hate the Muslims. Especially being a black man, I know what it's like to be discriminated against. I've lived with that."


Donna O'Connor, whose pregnant daughter died on 9/11, expressed the opinion that "This building will serve as an emblem for the rest of the world that Americans ... recognize that the evil acts of a few must never damn the innocent."


Ted Olson, the solicitor general under George W. Bush whose wife Barbara died when her plane was piloted into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, has expressed support for the rights of the Park51 organizers to construct the new site. In remarks on MSNBC, Olson said, "We don't want to turn an act of hate against us by extremists into an act of intolerance for people of religious faith."


The anti-war group September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, released a statement in support of the center, saying "we believe that welcoming the Center, which is intended to promote interfaith tolerance and respect, is consistent with fundamental American values of freedom and justice for all," adding it will be "an emblem for the rest of the world that Americans stand against violence, intolerance, and overt acts of racism and that we recognize that the evil acts of a few must never damn the innocent".


Terry Rockefeller, whose sister was killed, said: "this doesn't insult her at all. This celebrates the city she loved living in. It is what makes America what we are."

 

[beenie]

i stand by my position that although they have the right to build it, that doesn't mean they HAVE to.

 

[EtuMalku]

I am WITH you.

i stand by my position that although they have the right to build it, that doesn't mean they HAVE to.

 

[Alceste]

i stand by my position that although they have the right to build it, that doesn't mean they HAVE to.

IMHO, perhaps they could have considered other locations in anticipation of a negative reaction (and perhaps they did? Who knows). However, now that such a big deal has been made of it by a bug-eyed pack of knuckle-dragging dominionist bullies, they DO have to follow through. If you give your lunch money to a bully once, he'll take it from you every day for the rest of your life. They have been put in a position where they now have no choice but to either follow through or, by backing down, contribute to the strength of anti-Islamic activism which is spreading like a bad smell across America, drawing neanderthals out of their caves to protest EVERY new mosque, wherever it is proposed.

 

[beenie]

IMHO, perhaps they could have considered other locations in anticipation of a negative reaction (and perhaps they did? Who knows). However, now that such a big deal has been made of it by a bug-eyed pack of knuckle-dragging dominionist bullies, they DO have to follow through. If you give your lunch money to a bully once, he'll take it from you every day for the rest of your life. They have been put in a position where they now have no choice but to either follow through or, by backing down, contribute to the strength of anti-Islamic activism which is spreading like a bad smell across America, drawing neanderthals out of their caves to protest EVERY new mosque, wherever it is proposed.

you are absolutely correct. i agree on all points here; i've been trying to say exactlay what you just said...but you said it better. i find myself trying to articulate my point while my six young daughters babble in my ear.

 

[Autodidact]

Yahweh = God.
God = Allah .

Problem words in red.
Jews do not believe that God = Allah. Jews do not worship the entity described in the qur'an, and do not believe that the commandments in the qur'an come from God. In particular, Jews do not worship a God who condemns Jews to hell for worshiping God.

 

[Alceste]

Might I point out, reading the statements from families who lost loved ones on 9-11, how utterly insensitive and disrespectful it is to them to have the Republican party use their loss as a prop to advance an anti-Islamic political agenda.

 

[YmirGF]

Might I point out, reading the statements from families who lost loved ones on 9-11, how utterly insensitive and disrespectful it is to them to have the Republican party use their loss as a prop to advance an anti-Islamic political agenda.

Howard Dean and Harry Reid have become members of the Republican party? I wonder if, loony-as-bat-guano, Nancy Pelosi will want to investigate them too?

 

[YmirGF]

IMHO, perhaps they could have considered other locations in anticipation of a negative reaction (and perhaps they did? Who knows). However, now that such a big deal has been made of it by a bug-eyed pack of knuckle-dragging dominionist bullies, they DO have to follow through. If you give your lunch money to a bully once, he'll take it from you every day for the rest of your life. They have been put in a position where they now have no choice but to either follow through or, by backing down, contribute to the strength of anti-Islamic activism which is spreading like a bad smell across America, drawing neanderthals out of their caves to protest EVERY new mosque, wherever it is proposed.

I think you are seeing this how you want to. It is grossly unfair to label those who oppose the building of this um... "Cultural centre" as being "a bug-eyed pack of knuckle-dragging dominionist bullies". Have you considered the possibility that the ones who are proposing the "cultural centre" are quite possible the "a bug-eyed pack of knuckle-dragging dominionist bullies" who are demanding your lunch money? Congratulations Alceste, you have just insulted 69% of the American Public. Way to go, hon.

 

[YmirGF]

Problem words in red.
Jews do not believe that God = Allah. Jews do not worship the entity described in the qur'an, and do not believe that the commandments in the qur'an come from God. In particular, Jews do not worship a God who condemns Jews to hell for worshiping God.

Likewise, many Christians view Jesus as being God incarnate. This does put the whole notion in an uncomfortable position. I think the real thing they agree on is that there is only one God. How that god is viewed and what is expected by "him" are radically different, so there is little point in suggesting the tired old canard of the worshiping of the same god.

 

[Cypress]

Is this the same procedure that Christians have to go through when they want to build a Church?

Just remember that Muslim Americans are not asking for your charity or your pity, they are an equal citizens and what apply to them should be applied to you and everybody, or it will be a discrimination, and a violation of the Constitution of the United States of America.

No offence, I'm not an American & I'm not against building the mosque or building it in that place.
But I see you are from Saudi Arabia and I know that in your country building a church/synagogue/temple in whatever place is completely out of the question.
What are you and others from your country doing to change this?
I mean, even if they have the right to build a mosque and to build it in that place: I can't help but noticing how much tolerance Muslims receive in non-Islamic countries - and how little tolerance they provide in places where they are the majority.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I think you are seeing this how you want to. It is grossly unfair to label those who oppose the building of this um... "Cultural centre" as being "a bug-eyed pack of knuckle-dragging dominionist bullies". Have you considered the possibility that the ones who are proposing the "cultural centre" are quite possible the "a bug-eyed pack of knuckle-dragging dominionist bullies" who are demanding your lunch money? Congratulations Alceste, you have just insulted 69% of the American Public. Way to go, hon.

The evidence of misinformation and hate spread by those opposing the Center based on it being Islamic shows who the knuckle-draggers are.
And if 69% of Americans want to deny the rights of one religious group based soley on that groups religion, then they deserve to be insulted.

 

[tumbleweed41]

No offence, I'm not an American & I'm not against building the mosque or building it in that place.
But I see you are from Saudi Arabia and I know that in your country building a church/synagogue/temple in whatever place is completely out of the question.
What are you and others from your country doing to change this?
I mean, even if they have the right to build a mosque and to build it in that place: I can't help but noticing how much tolerance Muslims receive in non-Islamic countries - and how little tolerance they provide in places where they are the majority.

Indeed. America should be a beacon of light for Democracy and Equal Rights. The uproar does little to confirm this to countries we hope to inspire.