Mosque at Ground Zero

[beenie]

Ahh, I think I misread your post. I thought you meant that just because they have a legal right to build it, that doesn't mean they should.

that is what i'm saying. i am very torn on whether i think they should build the mosque; not based on legality, because that's a no-brainer. i'm on the fence about whether this is something they should push so hard for. i see both sides of the issue and i change my mind by the hour.

 

[Alceste]

that is what i'm saying. i am very torn on whether i think they should build the mosque; not based on legality, because that's a no-brainer. i'm on the fence about whether this is something they should push so hard for. i see both sides of the issue and i change my mind by the hour.

Are they "pushing" though? How could they have guessed it was going to be such a big kerfuffle when they applied for permission? The cost of starting again on another site now would be substantial considering the amount of work that goes into such an application. Are all those folks whining about their hurt feelings going to reimburse the project for these costs if they decide to move? I think not.

 

[autonomous1one1]

Perhaps part off the problem is that the press gives more attention to the negative reaction as this 9/11 family member who supports the project notes:

......Those who live in the neighborhood overwhelmingly support the center, as evidenced by the community board's unanimous-minus-one vote to approve the project. The dissent is mainly allochthonous. The most vocal are the bigoted team of Spencer and Geller who expend enormous amounts of energy masking their intolerance in the shrouds of the victims of 9/11. They don't speak for me. The media seems eager to trumpet the feelings of those hurt by the idea of the center. They mostly ignore my feelings and those, like me, who feel the center is an important step for Americans.
We hear so much about how some of the 9/11 families are hurt by the thought of a mosque so close to Ground Zero. The same people are quoted over and over as if to multiply their numbers. What about the other 9/11 family members who are hurt at the thought of the mosque being denied the right to exist?.....

There is more at:
Aug 8 2010 'Ground Zero Mosque' and the media's distortion of feelings - 121Contact.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Are they "pushing" though? How could they have guessed it was going to be such a big kerfuffle when they applied for permission? The cost of starting again on another site now would be substantial considering the amount of work that goes into such an application. Are all those folks whining about their hurt feelings going to reimburse the project for these costs if they decide to move? I think not.

This. It's so sad how many people can't see the bigger picture here.

 

[beenie]

Are they "pushing" though? How could they have guessed it was going to be such a big kerfuffle when they applied for permission? The cost of starting again on another site now would be substantial considering the amount of work that goes into such an application. Are all those folks whining about their hurt feelings going to reimburse the project for these costs if they decide to move? I think not.

This. It's so sad how many people can't see the bigger picture here.

i see the bigger picture, believe me i do.

 

[Kathryn]

My poor builder. When the neighborhood stood up en masse and barred him from building the duplexes that he had already bought the land for, the blueprints, etc and built his next three years' business plan around - no one reimbursed him for his trouble. He simply had to go along with what the zoning committee and city decided.

Personally I'm glad his original plans were scrapped. I love the house he built for us, and I'm thrilled that there aren't duplexes across the street from me. And his new houses - all single family homes - are selling like hotcakes.

Everyone's happier.

 

[dogsgod]

Americans make me laugh. Now some have their nickers in a knot over Muslims building a community center. It's tacky and insensitive to build it so close they say . I suppose Muslims building a community center destroys the image that Americans are supposed to have of Muslims. Muslims aren't supposed to build community centers, they're supposed to be doing devilish things so that good American Christians have an enemy to point fingers at. Muslims aren't cooperating in this case and some Americans don't like it. Well, boo hoo.

 

[YmirGF]

You *still* believe the conspiracy theory is valid, after all this discussion and evidence?

Um, what evidence? What conspiracy theory?

 

[Kathryn]

Americans make me laugh. Now some have their nickers in a knot over Muslims building a community center. It's tacky and insensitive to build it so close they say . I suppose Muslims building a community center destroys the image that Americans are supposed to have of Muslims. Muslims aren't supposed to build community centers, they're supposed to be doing devilish things so that good American Christians have an enemy to point fingers at. Muslims aren't cooperating in this case and some Americans don't like it. Well, boo hoo.

Are you really this dense or is this just a juvenile ploy for attention?

Muslims are free to build a community center anywhere that the zoning laws of any particular city allow it - as long, of course, as they submit their plans to the city for review and approval. This is standard operating procedure just about anywhere.

The vast majority of Americans support their right to build places of worship in accordance with local law.

As has been stated AD NAUSEUM - this particular site is 600 feet from Ground Zero. This is where the landing gear from one of the planes, as well as many of the ashes of 3000 innocent victims, came to rest. These 3000 men and women were killed by Islamist extremists invoking the cause of Islam and Allah.

Muslims aren't the only people with poor taste -and often local zoning boards allow the most awful "Six Flags Over Jesus" churches and community centers to be built, much to the angst and over the protest of locals. A few years ago, a local Baptist church expanded well into a very nice, established neighborhood by buying up surrounding homes and demolishing them. The public outcry was loud and intense - even from Baptists! The value of homes surrounding that property plummeted. It was a huge local issue and to this day many people absolutely detest the new facility.

Hey, by the way, even though I'm American, I know how to spell knickers.

 

[dogsgod]

Are you really this dense or is this just a juvenile ploy for attention?

Muslims are free to build a community center anywhere that the zoning laws of any particular city allow it - as long, of course, as they submit their plans to the city for review and approval. This is standard operating procedure just about anywhere.

The vast majority of Americans support their right to build places of worship in accordance with local law.

As has been stated AD NAUSEUM - this particular site is 600 feet from Ground Zero. This is where the landing gear from one of the planes, as well as many of the ashes of 3000 innocent victims, came to rest. These 3000 men and women were killed by Islamist extremists invoking the cause of Islam and Allah.

Muslims aren't the only people with poor taste -and often local zoning boards allow the most awful "Six Flags Over Jesus" churches and community centers to be built, much to the angst and over the protest of locals. A few years ago, a local Baptist church expanded well into a very nice, established neighborhood by buying up surrounding homes and demolishing them. The public outcry was loud and intense - even from Baptists! The value of homes surrounding that property plummeted. It was a huge local issue and to this day many people absolutely detest the new facility.

Hey, by the way, even though I'm American, I know how to spell knickers.

Cry me a river. So what if it was smack dab in the middle of ground zero? Community centers provide a service for people whereas most churches are a waste of space no matter where they are built. Try comparing apples to apples next time you whine about it.

 

[Kathryn]

Cry me a river. So what if it was smack dab in the middle of ground zero? Community centers provide a service for people whereas churches are a waste of space no matter where they are built. Try comparing apples to apples next time you whine about it.

I'm not whining about it. I don't live in NYC and I didn't lose a loved one on 9/11. I don't really have a dog in this hunt - and apparently neither do many people on this forum (you included). I think it's a local decision and shouldn't be politicized.

Hey - when I see a stranger walking down the street wearing something ridiculous, I'm free to point it out. That doesn't mean I'm offended, or that they shouldn't be allowed to commit fashion violations. It's just my opinion, which I'm thankfully free to express.

By the way, many churches are also community centers - such as the church I was describing in my post you commented on. This particular church has a gym, cafes, bookstores, recording studios - you name it - all open to the general public in the area.

Regardless of all that - it's still considered a scourge to many who live near it. The residents resent the fact that this facility has changed the ambience of their neighborhood.

I know it's hard, but try to be objective and reasonable.

 

[YmirGF]

I know it's hard, but try to be objective and reasonable.

Oh, don't be silly, Kathryn. We are quite obviously Islamophobic. knucke-dragging. neanderthal bigots who deserve a good stoning in the nearest public square. What about all the evidence? Are you some kind of conspiracy theory nut-job? Seriously.

 

[Magic Man]

Wow, are people here still connecting Islam with terrorism? Are you guys still arguing that they should not build this center this close to Ground Zero? Are you still arguing that your connecting all Muslims and Islam with terrorism and the people who committed the 9/11 attacks isn't a form of bigotry?

 

[Autodidact]

My poor builder. When the neighborhood stood up en masse and barred him from building the duplexes that he had already bought the land for, the blueprints, etc and built his next three years' business plan around - no one reimbursed him for his trouble. He simply had to go along with what the zoning committee and city decided.

Personally I'm glad his original plans were scrapped. I love the house he built for us, and I'm thrilled that there aren't duplexes across the street from me. And his new houses - all single family homes - are selling like hotcakes.

Everyone's happier.

Of course in this case, every government body that reviewed the application approved it, so these people don't have that problem. The only problem they have is a bunch of people who have no interest in the matter trying to tell them and the city what they should do.

 

[Autodidact]

Are you really this dense or is this just a juvenile ploy for attention?

Muslims are free to build a community center anywhere that the zoning laws of any particular city allow it - as long, of course, as they submit their plans to the city for review and approval. This is standard operating procedure just about anywhere.

They did that. It was approved. So why are we talking about it?

 

[Autodidact]

The vast majority of Americans support their right to build places of worship in accordance with local law.

Well they have a very odd way of showing it.

 

[autonomous1one1]

Americans make me laugh. Now some have their nickers in a knot over Muslims building a community center. It's tacky and insensitive to build it so close they say . I suppose Muslims building a community center destroys the image that Americans are supposed to have of Muslims. Muslims aren't supposed to build community centers, they're supposed to be doing devilish things so that good American Christians have an enemy to point fingers at. Muslims aren't cooperating in this case and some Americans don't like it. Well, boo hoo.

....Muslims are free to build a community center anywhere that the zoning laws of any particular city allow it - as long, of course, as they submit their plans to the city for review and approval. This is standard operating procedure just about anywhere.

The vast majority of Americans support their right to build places of worship in accordance with local law.

Greetings. Just a point to note: if one has friends who are Muslim and who are Americans also, a sensitivity is acquired to language that separates the two. Americans are Muslims and Muslims are Americans. These American Muslims raise and love children, work to support, have houses, treat people with great respect, etc. just like many other Americans. On 9/11, one published article indicated that over 10% of the victims were Muslim. Similarly, just like all Americans some Muslims are against the proposed center/mosque and others are for it or on the fence.

As has been stated AD NAUSEUM - this particular site is 600 feet from Ground Zero. This is where the landing gear from one of the planes, as well as many of the ashes of 3000 innocent victims, came to rest. These 3000 men and women were killed by Islamist extremists invoking the cause of Islam and Allah......

Hi Kathryn. Your points are never 'nauseating,' Kathryn, but perhaps these two points of 'hallowed ground' and 'Islam did the attack' have to be repeated so many times because the strength of opposing arguments keeps other views alive. Many do not allow a criminal minority to say for them what the 'cause' of a religion is; rather one turns to the other 1.5B people of the religion to get a true view. In addition, many do not consider the site to be hallowed ground because of what already exists in the area (gentleman's clubs) or some other reason. Here is a quote supporting these views from an article in the NY Times.

.......These opponents seem to be afflicted by two fundamental misconceptions. The first is that a huge mosque would rise on hallowed land at ground zero. In fact, the building would be something like a YMCA, and two blocks away and apparently out of view from ground zero. This is a dense neighborhood packed with shops, bars, liquor stores — not to mention the New York Dolls Gentlemen’s Club and the Pussycat Lounge (which says that it arranges lap dances in a private room, presumably to celebrate the sanctity of the neighborhood).
Why do so many Republicans find strip clubs appropriate for the ground zero neighborhood but object to a house of worship? Are lap dances more sanctified than an earnest effort to promote peace?
And this is an earnest effort. I know Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and his wife, Daisy Khan — the figures behind the Islamic community center — and they are the real thing. Because I have written often about Arab atrocities in Darfur and about the abuse of women in Islamic countries, some Muslim leaders are wary of me. But Imam Feisal and Ms. Khan are open-minded and have been strong advocates for women within Islam.
The second misconception underlying this debate is that Islam is an inherently war-like religion that drives believers to terrorism........

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/opinion/22kristof.html?_r=1&ref=opinion.

 

[logician]

As an atheist, I am not a proponent of building churches, but this whole episode smacks of blantant religious intolerance, by the tryanny of the majority.

 

[Alceste]

As an atheist, I am not a proponent of building churches, but this whole episode smacks of blantant religious intolerance, by the tryanny of the majority.

Then you can rest easy: it's actually a swimming pool.

 

[logician]

Then you can rest easy: it's actually a swimming pool.

I'm very tolerant of any religious or non-religious belief, the point was this "mosque" issue is just being hyped by the RW as a poltical issue to hatemonger and distract from much more important issues before the election this fall.