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Most recent cases and deaths of Covid-19 are unvaccinated.

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Part !!!

Kennedy’s Misunderstanding of COVID-19 Vaccines and Transmission​

During an interview with the New Yorker, published July 7, Kennedy said he knew early on that COVID-19 vaccines “should be dead in the water” because they “won’t prevent transmission.”

“[T]he scientists all, at one point, believed that the COVID vaccine prevented transmission,” he said. “I said, No, they don’t prevent transmission, because I read the monkey studies in May of 2020, and I saw that the amount of the concentration of the virus in the nasal pharynx of the vaccinated monkey was identical to the unvaccinated monkeys.”

First, as we’ve explained before, stopping disease transmission is not a requirement for a vaccine. While some vaccines do reduce the spread of disease, others do not — and an inability to do so doesn’t mean a vaccine has failed. Often, the main goal of a vaccine is to prevent disease or severe disease, which is the case for the COVID-19 vaccines.

The COVID-19 vaccines were authorized for emergency use based on their ability to prevent symptomatic disease in clinical trials, not for any effect on transmission. In December 2020, when the Food and Drug Administration authorized the first COVID-19 vaccine, the agency even warned that it wasn’t known whether the vaccine would prevent spread of the coronavirus.

That didn’t mean the COVID-19 vaccines would do nothing for transmission, though. In the following months, data showed that vaccination did reduce spread, either because vaccinated people were protected against infection in the first place or because they were less contagious if infected.

With the emergence of the omicron variant, however, which is more transmissible and immune evasive, the vaccines were no longer as good at preventing infection or reducing onward spread of the virus. The vaccines likely do still reduce transmission, but only a little bit, and for a shorter period of time, research has shown. That doesn’t mean the shots don’t work. The vaccines still provide some protection against symptomatic disease and reduce the risk of severe disease and death.

Kennedy is also wrong to claim that studies of the then-candidate vaccines in monkeys showed no difference in viral concentration in the nasopharynx and indicated the vaccines would have no effect on transmission. In a study published in July 2020, animals vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine and then purposely infected with the virus showed much lower levels of virus in samples from the nose and lung than purposely infected unvaccinated animals.

The authors even wrote that their study “showed early prevention of viral replication in the upper and lower airways after a high-dose challenge,” noting that “the ability to limit viral replication in both the lower and the upper airways has important implications for vaccine-induced prevention of both SARS-CoV-2 disease and transmission.”

The results were similar for Johnson & Johnson’s single-dose adenoviral COVID-19 vaccine. In a study published in Nature in July 2020, only one of the six vaccinated monkeys had any detectable virus in its nose at any time point — in sharp contrast to the unvaccinated animals, which had much more virus for a longer time.

The monkey results were more ambiguous for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. One vaccine design, BNT162b1, showed a more clear reduction in the viral load in nasal samples, while another, BNT162b2 — the one that was ultimately used in the vaccine — did not. But it’s not true that the amount of virus in the unvaccinated and vaccinated animals was “identical.” One day after infection, the BNT162b2-vaccinated animals had higher amounts of virus in their noses than unvaccinated controls, but for all other tested subsequent days, starting on day 3, none of the BNT162b2-vaccinated animals had any detectable virus at all in their noses, unlike the unvaccinated animals. Swabs taken from the back of the throat also showed both vaccine designs reduced the amount of virus there.

It’s possible Kennedy is thinking of the monkey test results for the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine. Those results, released in May 2020, did not show any difference in the viral load in the nose among vaccinated and unvaccinated animals — something that the Moderna authors commented on and contrasted with their results. But the AstraZeneca vaccine uses a different design than the mRNA shots and was never used in the U.S. And despite the monkey results, subsequent research suggests the AstraZeneca vaccine did reduce transmission in people.

More on the way . . .
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Oh, certainly no.
But this doesn't mean that you can't fall
prey occasionally to magical thinking, &
bias confirmation of dysfunctional beliefs.

LOL - denial of God doesn't mean He doesn't exist... For you magical, for me the power for healing, opening of doors and making what you deem impossible as possible.
Ain't nobody perfect.
But this doesn't make all sources of info equivalent.
Mayo Clinic & Johns Hopkins are still more reliable
than right wing talk radio....the source a friend uses
for info about vaccines changing our DNA, that
Covid 19 is a government plot, & advice that prayer
is the only cure for Covid 19.

Exactly! Nobody is perfect.
And, yes, all sources are not equivalent
Mayo and John - pretty reliable except when not - no expectation that they are gods
Left and right bobble heads - with a grain of salt
Changing DNA... isn't that what it does? Trying to synthesize by human capacity what the body already does?
Government... not a plot but a reality as they forced everyone to homogenize there speech (proven)
Who said prayer is the only cure? A left wing conspiracy promotion? ;)
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Or that somehow, they have become our gods that can't be wrong?
When covid came out, Fauci said that this was a learning process for them, and in science we are always involved in a continuing learning process. However, this is still vastly better, imo, than taking medical directions from politicians.
 

Little Dragon

Well-Known Member
Almost all COVID cases now occurring in those not vaccinated studies show | wwltv.com


Almost all COVID cases now occurring in those not vaccinated studies show

New, emerging science shows there is a reason for vaccinated people to be optimistic about getting back to normal, but not as much for the unvaccinated.

NEW ORLEANS — COVID-19 cases, deaths and hospitalizations are going down across the country. In fact, the case rate is the lowest it's been in nearly a year.

That may sound like good news, but it's only good news for some.

New, emerging science shows there is a reason for vaccinated people to be optimistic about getting back to normal, but not as much for the unvaccinated.


Let's start with the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio.

Its study finds 99.75 percent of the patients this year who had to be hospitalized, sick with COVID, were not fully vaccinated. And of the employees who tested positive for the virus, 99.7 percent had not gotten the vaccine.

But among those who got the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, it was more than 96 percent effective in protecting them from getting COVID-19.

Now let's look at some states. Unvaccinated people in states such as Colorado, Maine, Rhode Island and Washington are having high infection spikes similar to the winter surge. Similarly, the African-American community in Washington D.C. is where 80 percent of that city's new cases are showing up, because of lower vaccination rates. And in some states there is still a steady death rate, but only among the unvaccinated. In Maryland the risk of going to the hospital if you’ve been infected, is going up if you're not vaccinated, possibly due to the variants that are spreading.

So we wanted to know where Louisiana stands, but the state does not post infections or hospitalizations by vaccine status. So according to LCMC which runs six local hospitals, the people coming into hospital emergency rooms with COVID are typically the unvaccinated. Very few who got the shot come in and have to be admitted, and if they do, their cases are mild.

So doctors say the bottom line is things are getting safer for the vaccinated, that's the reason overall numbers are going down, but the unvaccinated are still at risk and getting the wrong safety message.

Another concern doctors have is that new variants will be created in people who are not vaccinated and that the vaccine can not protect against.
I contracted COVID 19 in January 2021, I was vaccinated, twice, after the vaccine rollout in the UK. I've not caught it since. When I did catch it, I slept for 24 hrs and did not move position apparently, flat on my back, like a vampire in a torpor. Never felt so ill in my life. Luckily special treatment wasnt needed. I recovered rapidly. I am in my forties, usually as healthy as a horse.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Too general. If people want a certain narrative (as I noted) - you can make it say what you want. My church has tripled in size - the fastest growing church in all of America... it went from 5 to 15 people... see what I mean?

Too often they analyze things to ones benefit.
Well, sure. If you're intent on making something up, you can say whatever you want. The first part of your statement may be statistically accurate ("my church has tripled in size"), but the second part is not ("the fastest growing church in America), it's just made up.
That's not an argument against statistical analysis. It's an argument against making stuff up.


I was just showing their analysis... I just pointed out the flaws. Flaws can be hidden - a "death by clotting" won't be listed as "reaction to vaccine".

Many of the pro-vax have died. Several have to be hospitalized.... it happens


Yes... and sometimes money can be a good motivation.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
So can you show any facts which refute Kennedy's statement?

From your link, Kennedy said:

“COVID-19 attacks certain races disproportionately. COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and Black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese.”
This statement is BS.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
LOL - denial of God doesn't mean He doesn't exist... For you magical, for me the power for healing, opening of doors and making what you deem impossible as possible.


Exactly! Nobody is perfect.
And, yes, all sources are not equivalent
Mayo and John - pretty reliable except when not - no expectation that they are gods
Left and right bobble heads - with a grain of salt
Changing DNA... isn't that what it does? Trying to synthesize by human capacity what the body already does?
Government... not a plot but a reality as they forced everyone to homogenize there speech (proven)
Who said prayer is the only cure? A left wing conspiracy promotion? ;)
No. The COVID vaccine does not change your DNA.
Good grief.
 

Little Dragon

Well-Known Member
So can you show any facts which refute Kennedy's statement?
"In April 2020, a study of hospital admissions presented the first substantive evidence that death rates were higher among black and Asian patients who had contracted the disease. It was not yet clear, however, if there were ethnic inequalities in risks of mortality from COVID-19 in the population at large."
London School of Economics and Political Science
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
LOL - denial of God doesn't mean He doesn't exist... For you magical, for me the power for healing, opening of doors and making what you deem impossible as possible.


Exactly! Nobody is perfect.
And, yes, all sources are not equivalent
Mayo and John - pretty reliable except when not - no expectation that they are gods
Left and right bobble heads - with a grain of salt
Changing DNA... isn't that what it does? Trying to synthesize by human capacity what the body already does?
Government... not a plot but a reality as they forced everyone to homogenize there speech (proven)
Who said prayer is the only cure? A left wing conspiracy promotion? ;)
Nothing here is proven,, and a mix of religion and bad science is toxic.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
LOL - denial of God doesn't mean He doesn't exist...
I'm no expert on his existence or non-existence.
For you magical, for me the power for healing, opening of doors and making what you deem impossible as possible.
Strictly speaking, not impossible.

Exactly! Nobody is perfect.
And, yes, all sources are not equivalent
Mayo and John - pretty reliable except when not - no expectation that they are gods
Not "gods" just epidemiologists & virologists.
They're merelymore reliable sources of info about
diseases & vaccines than preachers, radio hosts,
Trump, Fox News, OAN, & ophthalmologists
Changing DNA... isn't that what it does?
No.
Trying to synthesize by human capacity what the body already does?
Vaccines "teach" the body's immune system to respond
respond more quickly to a specific disease pathogen.
Government... not a plot but a reality as they forced everyone to homogenize there speech (proven)
Elaborate?
Who said prayer is the only cure?
I actually heard this from a nurse (a Christian fundie).
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Part IV and there will be more. . .



What the Cleveland Clinic Study Shows About Vaccine Effectiveness​

In recent interviews, Kennedy also has cited a study by the Cleveland Clinic to bolster a false claim that the COVID-19 vaccines provide “no advantage.”

In a June 15 episode of the “Joe Rogan Experience” podcast, he said, “What that study shows, the more vaccines you get, the more likely it is that you’re going to get sick and that the people who are most vaccinated have … 3.5 times the risk of illness that people who are unvaccinated. So, I mean, that’s not a good profile for, you know, a medical product.”

Kennedy relayed the same Cleveland Clinic study results in a June 25 episode of the podcast “Club Random with Bill Maher.” After Maher followed up with a question about the protection vaccines provide against severe COVID-19, Kennedy said, “My belief about that is there is no advantage to the vaccine.”

As we’ve said, there is clear evidence that the COVID-19 vaccines have prevented severe disease and death, and provided some protection against infection and more mild disease.

As with many of Kennedy’s statements, there is a grain of truth that has been misinterpreted.

As we explained in a prior article, observational studies like the Cleveland Clinic one can appear to show relationships between things that are not in fact directly related. The study of Cleveland Clinic workers showed that in the months after the bivalent omicron booster became available, employees who had received more doses of the original COVID-19 vaccines and boosters were statistically more likely to test positive for COVID-19. In one analysis, people who got more than three prior vaccine doses were around 3.5 times more likely to have a COVID-19 diagnosis than those who had no prior doses.

But the finding doesn’t show that the COVID-19 vaccines caused greater COVID-19 risk, experts told us, or that “the more vaccines you get, the more likely it is that you’re going to get sick,” as Kennedy claimed.

Study co-author Dr. Nabin Shrestha, an infectious disease physician at the Cleveland Clinic, told us that “a study like this, one study, is not going to prove any cause-effect relationship.”

Experts told us about many factors that could make it appear that vaccines increased COVID-19 risk when in fact they did not. For instance, it’s possible that people who got more prior doses were more likely to seek out testing, to be older and less healthy, or to have more exposure to the virus — and less likely to have been recently infected. Any of these factors could increase COVID-19 risk.

Further, the Cleveland Clinic study’s main finding was that the bivalent omicron booster did provide some initial protection against testing positive for COVID-19, in keeping with results from other studies. Research has generally shown that additional COVID-19 shots broaden the immune response to the virus.

COVID-19 Vaccine Trial Result Claims​

Kennedy also provides a misleading description of the trial results for the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine by focusing on the COVID-19 deaths in the vaccine and placebo groups — and doing some bad math.

“[D]uring that six-month period in the vaccine group, one person died of COVID, and in the placebo group, two people died from COVID. So that allows Pfizer to tell the public — and, you know, FDA to tell the public — Oh, this vaccine is 100% effective because two is 100% of one,” he told Rogan during his interview.

First, neither Pfizer/BioNTech nor the FDA ever said the vaccine had an efficacy of 100% based on deaths from COVID-19, which wasn’t even an endpoint in the trial. And of course, that’s not how the math works anyway — there would have to be zero deaths in the vaccine group to get an efficacy of 100%.

The main way the COVID-19 vaccines were evaluated for efficacy was their ability to prevent symptomatic COVID-19, which was the basis of the emergency use authorizations. Pfizer/BioNTech first reported the vaccine had 95% efficacy against symptomatic COVID-19 in November 2020, and the same number was used by the FDA for the authorization almost a month later. In 2021, the updated trial results showed an efficacy of 91%. Moderna’s final trial data showed an efficacy of 93%.

A secondary efficacy measurement was against severe COVID-19, which included death. The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was either 95% or 100% effective, depending on the definition of severe COVID-19, according to the trial data. That figure was calculated comparing the number of severe cases starting seven days after the second dose, which was one in the vaccine group versus 21 in the placebo group (95%), or zero in the vaccine group versus 31 in the placebo group (100%).

The efficacy of the vaccine was not measured against COVID-19 deaths because they are much less common than the symptomatic disease. Maria Sundaram, a researcher at the Center for Clinical Epidemiology and Population Health at Marshfield Clinic Research Institute, told us a much larger trial would have been required for that, which would have taken longer.

“[W]e were also worried about COVID-19 symptomatic illness,” she told us in an email. “For nearly all cases of severe COVID-19, including COVID-19 related deaths, a key component is a symptomatic COVID-19 illness. So an important logical step here is that a population reduction in symptomatic COVID-19 illness would also likely represent a population reduction in more severe COVID-19 outcomes.”

Subsequent observational studies, she noted, have shown the vaccines work to prevent COVID-19-related death.

During the same interview, Kennedy noted that 17 people died in the placebo group, while 21 died in the vaccine group. He proceeded to incorrectly claim that those data show that “if you take the vaccine, you’re … 21% more likely to die over six months.”

Kennedy is right in that, according to updated trial data available in an FDA document, there were a total of 38 deaths starting from when participants got their first dose of the vaccine or placebo up to March 13, 2021; 21 in the vaccine group and 17 in the placebo group. But these are deaths from all causes. “None of the deaths were considered related to vaccination,” the trial document adds.

“The 17/21 figure does not mean that the vaccine causes harm,” Sundaram told us. “We hope that the randomization procedure has the result of making the treatment groups as similar as possible. Because life is random and there are many factors outside of our control, sometimes there is a small difference in a clinical trial that is due to random chance.”

“There has not been any suggestion of an increased risk of death associated with vaccine in any vaccine safety study of COVID-19 vaccines in the US,” she added.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
When covid came out, Fauci said that this was a learning process for them, and in science we are always involved in a continuing learning process. However, this is still vastly better, imo, than taking medical directions from politicians.
And we now know the involvement of Fauci with Wuhan


At this point, until otherwise shown, I'm not able to trust Fauci.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
And we now know the involvement of Fauci with Wuhan


At this point, until otherwise shown, I'm not able to trust Fauci.
The first reference is bogus millions of people invest in funds that contain foreign funds like Chinese.

The second reference does present problems for Fauci, but your final conclusion is bogus and not based on Fauci's job performance.

Again mixing religion with false science is toxic.

You have failed to respond and acknowledge posts#169, 160, 161, and 174, and more to come on Mr. Kennedy and his personal anti-vaxxer foundation.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
I go by the history of who got COVID-19 and why related to being vaccinated and over the above does not fit the facts.

The vax does not prevent transmission friend .. no significant reduction.. that is the History.. "The Facts" .. and the Jabbed are more likely to be re-infected is the latest news ..

So -- no benefit to healthy folks -- Omicron way less nasty than the common cold .. no longer targeting lower respiratory .. less dangerous than regular flue .. so no tangeable benefit .. but huge risk on the other side .. the Jab extremely dangerous .. 100 times more dangerous than the Swine Flue Vax .. which they discontinued because it was too dangerous and SAR of 1 - 100,000 (one Severe Adverse Reaction per 100,000)
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Your devotion and denial does not help the case for Kennedy
Kennedy's case is meaningful within the context of the death of his uncle John in 1963. In his 1961 speech to the American Newspaper Publishers Association, President Kennedy said:

For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.

Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match.

His speech was made in the context of the Cold War, preceding the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962. The Church Committee report of 1975 found that the efforts to overthrow Castro were pervasive within the national security apparatus of the U.S. One of the planned attempts to overthrow him was Operation Northwoods, which if carried out would have "reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.". The plan was approved by the Joint Chiefs of Staff but rejected by Kennedy's administration.

While Kennedy's speech would have been interpreted by the press as being about the perceived communist threat, the activities described are largely consistent with those being planned or carried out by the U.S. itself.

After his death, Kennedy's language of conspiracy was used to smear those who didn't believe that the "magic bullet theory" was adequate to explain his death, labelling them "conspiracy theorists".

Kennedy’s organization, Children’s Health Defense, has published thousands of stories about COVID-19, many including misleading claims, some of which we’ve written about.

At the time of Kennedy's speech to the American Newspaper Publishers Association, Operation Mockingbird had been in operation for around ten years, its purpose being to subvert and control corporate media. Information warfare is of course part of the U.S. doctrine of full spectrum dominance.

“A system in which preventative action is required will be stable only under the condition that it is dominated by a single power or a concert of powers. The doctrine of prevention therefore needs to be complemented by a doctrine of enduring strategic superiority — and this is, in fact, the main theme of the US National Security Strategy.” ~ Robert Cooper

“The postmodern world has to start to get used to double standards. Among ourselves, we operate on the basis of laws and open cooperative security. But, when dealing with old-fashioned states outside the postmodern continent of Europe, we need to revert to the rougher methods of an earlier era--force, pre-emptive attack, deception, whatever is necessary. Among ourselves, we keep the law but when we are operating in the jungle, we must also use the laws of the jungle.” ~ Robert Cooper
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
And we now know the involvement of Fauci with Wuhan


At this point, until otherwise shown, I'm not able to trust Fauci.

This is pure whataboutism, ie, with no rational
basis for the claims that vaccines are bad, just
attack Fauci personally.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The vax does not prevent transmission friend .. no significant reduction.. that is the History..
You're ignoring the fact that vaccination
reduces severity of the Covid 19.
This is useful.

"The Facts" .. and the Jabbed are more likely to be re-infected is the latest news ..
Debunked....
More info...
So -- no benefit to healthy folks -- Omicron way less nasty than the common cold .. no longer targeting lower respiratory .. less dangerous than regular flue
It's spelled "flu".
.. so no tangeable benefit .. but huge risk on the other side .. the Jab extremely dangerous .. 100 times more dangerous than the Swine Flue Vax .. which they discontinued because it was too dangerous and SAR of 1 - 100,000 (one Severe Adverse Reaction per 100,000)
 
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