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Mother mary without sin?
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
This is a Protestant thing. The Christian Bible at most states that Jesus is an "elohim" (god=theos) similar to Moses. It is the Protestants, more precisely the Neo-Pentecostals who confuse the divine "theos" with the ALMIGHTY GOD.
You are correct. Thank you very much for correcting me. I answer many questions individually and am also subject to errors.
In Christianity, Mary is co-author of salvation with Jesus. Jesus is the LOGOS of the ALMIGHTY GOD tabernacled in the flesh. Due to the fact that Jesus is King of a new world, made with the elect in CHRIST, Mary is queen in this new world. This does not mean that she is queen of these heavens with stars and celestial bodies that we see...
Mary is not a mediator. No educated Catholic will teach this... It is the Protestants who misinterpret the hyperdulia shown to the virgin MARY.
We see an example of “imprecatory prayer” in Heaven, asking for justice (cf. Rev 6:9-11). We see men in Heaven (cf. Rev 5:8) and also angels (cf. Rev 8:4) who somehow possess the “prayers of the saints.” Why? Could someone please tell us what they are doing with them? Why are they even remotely involved in prayer? It is clearly intercession. I recognize that it is a typically Christian concept.
This is also a misinterpretation by Protestants. The word used for brothers in the Christian Bible is "adelphos", the etymological root meaning "from the same womb", but the word was used for the 13 sons of Jacob in the Septuagint with four different women. This is just one example where the word adelphos gained an advanced meaning to mean cousins. We Catholics believe adelphos refers to the relatives of Jesus and not biological brothers.
In 1 Samuel 25, Abigail got off her donkey, fell down before David, and said, "Oh, my lord, let my transgression be mine; now therefore let your servant speak in your ears, and hear the words of your servant."
Educated Catholics only worship the ALMIGHTY God. Catholics venerate (honor) the saints.
I gave you an example of interpretation in the Torah concerning Rebekah, but you ignored it.
Eliana
Member
You don't need to make each it's own separate post.
I didn't ask what it was, I said you should double check your references because I was confused.
In other words, you have no good answer.
No, you left assertations. It's still begging the question of why would HaShem make her free of "original sin" and no one else.
Says who? Your own bible doesn't even make this claim.
She is not Eve, and your own bible does not make this claim. First you claim she was a virgin and now she gave rise to new children. Which is it?
I don't care. My statement is Catholics deify Mary. I couldn't care less about Catholic vs Protestant or semantic word play/entomology. Please see my response to GoodAttention about that nonsense: Mother mary without sin?
Repeating your dogma does not interest me or prove anything.
She is called an intermediator. You're talking to a girl who grew up in Catholic Ireland in Catholic schools.
Glad you recognise it. I don't care what the Christian bible says if it contradicts the Tanakh.
The septuagint is a crap translation from 2000 years ago. Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic do not even have words for cousin and instead specifically use the term "sons of an uncle" for such a relationship. Adelphos means "from the same womb" and while it can, in some contexts, mean brothers as a metaphor, it depends on the context and said context isn't here. I think Greeks and scholars of ancient Greek know their own language. They say is means blood brothers and I take their word over the catholic church's who have an obvious conflict of interests concerning this word. What Catholics "believe" it means is irrelevant, what it actually means is. facts don't change based on one's opinions.
They say this, they do otherwise.
Because it was wrong. Almah means a young woman who may or may not be a virgin. Betulah means virgin and no amount of mental gymnastics will change that. If the author meant virgin when Isaiah was written he would have said betulah. Period.
I didn't ask what it was, I said you should double check your references because I was confused.
In other words, you have no good answer.
No, you left assertations. It's still begging the question of why would HaShem make her free of "original sin" and no one else.
Says who? Your own bible doesn't even make this claim.
She is not Eve, and your own bible does not make this claim. First you claim she was a virgin and now she gave rise to new children. Which is it?
I don't care. My statement is Catholics deify Mary. I couldn't care less about Catholic vs Protestant or semantic word play/entomology. Please see my response to GoodAttention about that nonsense: Mother mary without sin?
Repeating your dogma does not interest me or prove anything.
She is called an intermediator. You're talking to a girl who grew up in Catholic Ireland in Catholic schools.
Glad you recognise it. I don't care what the Christian bible says if it contradicts the Tanakh.
The septuagint is a crap translation from 2000 years ago. Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic do not even have words for cousin and instead specifically use the term "sons of an uncle" for such a relationship. Adelphos means "from the same womb" and while it can, in some contexts, mean brothers as a metaphor, it depends on the context and said context isn't here. I think Greeks and scholars of ancient Greek know their own language. They say is means blood brothers and I take their word over the catholic church's who have an obvious conflict of interests concerning this word. What Catholics "believe" it means is irrelevant, what it actually means is. facts don't change based on one's opinions.
They say this, they do otherwise.
Because it was wrong. Almah means a young woman who may or may not be a virgin. Betulah means virgin and no amount of mental gymnastics will change that. If the author meant virgin when Isaiah was written he would have said betulah. Period.
John D. Brey
Well-Known Member
It's really refreshing around here to see someone just admit a mistake rather than doubling down. Thank you!
John
ok
ok
It's not this. It makes no sense to discuss Christian philosophy among ourselves, just as it makes no sense to discuss Kabbalah and gematria.
Grammatical rules are proof.
You ignore the verb “KECHARITOMENE”, it is, in a way, the same mistake as Protestants, despite you not believing in the Christian Bible.
According to his will he begat us by the word of truth, that we should be the firstfruits of his creatures. Letter from James 1:18
The verse Matthew 23:8 says: "But you do not wish to be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, that is, the Christ, and you are all brothers."
We are all children of Mary.
Educated Catholics don't do this.
I didn't repeat it. I explained that your interpretation is wrong.
The parable of the wheat and the tares teaches that the coexistence of good and bad is part of divine Providence. Living with the bad helps them improve their lives, and living with the good helps them grow in virtue. Matthew 13: 24 –30
The Catholic assembly includes everyone, even pagans, but being a true Catholic requires discipline and study.
True Catholicism is not for everyone.
Does the word adephos etymologically mean "the same uterus"? However, the word was used for the father Jacob Genesis 37:3-4, with four different wives. All the children were first cousins (adelphos) from the same father. There was a change in the meaning of the word for Jacob. All of these were cousin brothers (adelphos) by their father.
3 ιακωβ δε ηγαπα τον ιωσηφ παρα παντας τους υιους αυτου οτι υιος γηρους ην αυτω εποιησεν δε αυτω χιτωνα ποικιλον 4 ιδοντες δε οι αδελφοι (adelfos) αυτου οτι αυτον ο πατηρ φιλει εκ παντων των υιων αυτου εμισησαν αυτον και ουκ εδυναντο λαλειν αυτω ουδεν ειρηνικον.
It's not a question of it being a bad translation... The fact is that the use of adelphi in Genesis 37:3-4 went against etymology. Adelfos does not just mean brothers from the same womb.
The first example to be observed are the deacons, then the nuns and priests.
It wasn't gymnastics... It's a beautiful interpretation of the Hebrew scriptures, but it's not convenient for you.
GoodAttention
Well-Known Member
You missed my post #256.
My statement is the Hebrew scriptures are full of semantic word play.
There is absolutely no evidence that "Mother Mary" was without sin. She was a young woman, probably a teenager, chosen by God to be Jesus' mother. If their is evidence in the Bible that Mary was sinless, please point it out.
Grace in the Bible is the unmerited favor of God toward humans. It has absolutely nothing to do with being sinless. As an example, Rahab the prostitute was justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another way. (James 2:25)
kecharitomene first of all is a verb, the virgin Mary was made in the past with full grace, before the birth of Jesus. In addition, the angel uses a greeting from an inferior to a superior.
That is your interpretation, which is by no means objective truth. There is nothing in the Bible that says that Mary was sinless.
Mary was a virgin, but she was not sinless. => Nowhere in the Bible does it specifically say that Mary was sinless <=
These are grammar rules. They cannot be cancelled.