Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in the Eyes of Non-Muslims

[darkendless]

no, i do not know what you mean.

i do not know what the word saint means but he deffinately was a prophet, a messenger of our creator. now you even say that the man who has written good things about the prophet, is a maniac or something and he too is/was a non muslim. so i can honestly say to you that you do not care if Muhammed (saws) truly is a prophet, no matter who says so, you have a non muslim describing him and yet you say he is lying, why would he, you call him a sympathiser as well, what would it take for you to believe that Muhammed (saws) truely is a prophet.
i know for sure it won't take a muslim, and clearly it won't even take a non muslim. so what will?????????



so now you accuse the islamic prophet of being a murderor. is that what you are saying.
let me ask you this: you are in a right state of mind,right, and yet you say mean things about him, am i soposed to believe what you say, when you prove your self wrong with your own words.

.

the reason why no one won't ever find a bad word is because Muhammed (saws) was not just a person like you or me (he never sined or dissobeyed). there were no mistakes. he never was unjust to people, he was always merciful to non believers, he never held a grudge against anyone, he never betrayed anyone, he never killed for no reason, he only killed in wars (thats the only place where men are allowed to kill). what else do you want. so isn't that a reason to accept him, i mean if there are no bad things about him then why make it your mission to find something, does it seem to good to be true or something, why not just accept him.

I mean you cannot judge his character based on the sources that exist which are all Pro-Muslim. Thats why i'm saying you do not know for sure what Mohammed was like. Sure he may have been like a prophet. Authors about him most likely (just like every ancient author) exhadderated. I do not believe that there is a God Allah so therefore i do not believe that Mohammed was his messenger. One thing i must say though, is Mohammed was a great man regardless of his divinity.

Im not calling him a murderer. In history (Roman/Greek/Indian + every other civilisation), murdering people who tried to bring you down was just. I believe the ROman Emperor Augustus was a great man, he killed thousands who opposed him. I dare say supporters of Mohammed would have "taken care of" anyone who wrote what they perceived as lies about him.

Since all i have is the holy Quran to base my opinion of Mohammed on as well as Hadiths (i think, my Islamic knowledge is poor), i could not come to a reasonable conclusion.

Just a question, do you accept jesus as a prophet as well? If not, why not?

 

[kai]

first of all i think you read to fast or you just right the first name that comes to mind, i'm eselam not tariq. My apologies eselam

ok if i'm going by what other people are saying so are you, did you ever meet the prophet to say the things you have, to accuse him of being a false prophet and all the other stuff, no you have never met him, i haven't either but because i believe in him and his message i feel as though i know him, do you think that people would wright lies when they say something good about someone, i mean lets start talking about george bush is ther any good to be said about him?? i certainly don't think so and there is nothing you can say either. No i never met him and i dont say he is a false prophet all i am saying is, if you want to beleive then fine but it doesnt make it fact

and for me just as any other muslim we have the word of the Kur'an, the word of Allah that speaks about about our prophet Muhammed (saws) i do not need someone else to tell me about him (ofcourse i do but whats in the Kur'an is still enough). and do you think that i would tell people what a good man george bush is, when clearly he isn't. why are you and other non muslims convinced that Muhammed (saws) is a lie, what information do you have that i don't

I didnt say he was a lie ,all i am saying is all you have are Islamic sources, and they are obviously in admiration of their prophet.

 

[Gharib]

Since all i have is the holy Quran to base my opinion of Mohammed on as well as Hadiths (i think, my Islamic knowledge is poor), i could not come to a reasonable conclusion.

well guess what? i too only read the Kur'an and have never really read any hadiths. it's not how much material you read, it's how much you believe it and how well you interpret it. it's how you chose to portray it that is the problem. you chose to portray Muhammed (saws) as a false prophet so thats why you do not have much information or knowledge, i on the other hand chose to accept his message and i find more things about him in less material than you do.

Just a question, do you accept jesus as a prophet as well? If not, why not?

i accept Isa (as) as a prophet or Jesus if you wish to call him like that. and i also accept all the other prophets because if i didn't then i could not be a muslim.

 

[Renji]

The following description of his person and character is taken from Sir William Muir (Life of Muhammad, pp. 510-13):

His form, though little above mean height, was stately and commanding. The depth of feeling in his dark black eyes, and the winning expression of a face otherwise attractive, gained the confidence and love of strangers, even at first sight. His features often unbended into a smile full of grace and condescension. He was, says an admiring follower, the handsomest and bravest, the brightest faced and most generous of men. It was as though the sunlight beamed in his countenance. His gait has been likened to that of one descending a hill rapidly. When he made haste, it was with difficulty that one kept pace with him. He never turned, even if his mantle caught in a thorny bush; so that his attendants talked and laughed freely behind him secure of being unobserved.

Thorough and complete in all his actions, he took in hand no work without bringing it to a close. The same habit pervaded his manner in social intercourse. If he turned in a conversation towards a friend, he turned not partially, but with his full face and his whole body. In shaking hands, he was not the first to withdraw his own; nor was he the first to break off in converse with a stranger, nor to turn away his ear. A patriarchal simplicity pervaded his life. His custom was to do everything for himself. If he gave an alms he would place it with his own hands in that of the petitioner. He aided his wives in their household duties, mended his clothes, tied up the goats, and even cobbled his sandals. His ordinary dress was of plain white cotton stuff, made like his neighbours'. He never reclined at meals. Muhammad, with his wives, lived, as we have seen, in a row of low and homely cottages built of unbaked bricks, the apartments separated by walls of palm branches rudely daubed with mud, while curtains of leather, or of black haircloth, supplied the place of doors and windows. He was to all of easy access even as the river's bank to him that draweth water from it. Embassies and deputations were received with the utmost courtesy and consideration. In the issue of rescripts bearing on their representations, or in other matters of state, Muhammad displayed all the qualifications of an able and experienced ruler. What renders this the more strange is that he was never known himself to write.

A remarkable feature was the urbanity and consideration with which Muhammad treated even the most insignificant of his followers. Modesty and kindliness, patience, self denial, and generosity, pervaded his conduct, and riveted the affections of all around him. He disliked to say No. If unable to answer a petitioner in the affirmative, he preferred silence. He was not known ever to refuse an invitation to the house even of the meanest, nor to decline a proffered present however small. He possessed the rare faculty of making each individual in a company think that he was the favoured guest. If he met anyone rejoicing at success he would seize him eagerly and cordially by the hand. With the bereaved and afflicted he sympathised tenderly. Gentle and unbending towards little children, he would not disdain to accost a group of them at play with the salutation of peace. He shared his food, even in times of scarcity, with others, and was sedulously solicitous for the personal comfort of everyone about him. A kindly and benevolent disposition pervaded all those illustrations of his character. Muhammad was a faithful friend. He loved Abu Bakr with the close affection of a brother; Ali, with the fond partiality of a father. Zaid, the freedman, was so strongly attached by the kindness of the Prophet, that he preferred to remain at Makkah rather than return home with his own father. 'I will not leave thee,' he said, clinging to his patron, 'for thou hast been a father and mother to me.' The friendship of Muhammad survived the death of Zaid, and his son Usama was treated by him with distinguished favour for the father's sake. Uthman and Umar were also the objects of a special attachment; and the enthusiasm with which, at Hudaibiyya, the Prophet entered into the Pledge of the Tree and swore that he would defend his beleaguered son in law even to the death, was a signal proof of faithful friendship. Numerous other instances of Muhammad's ardent and unwavering regard might be adduced. His affections were in no instance misplaced; they were ever reciprocated by a warm and self sacrificing love.

In the exercise of a power absolutely dictatorial, Muhammad was just and temperate. Nor was he wanting in moderation towards his enemies, when once they had cheerfully submitted to his claims. The long and obstinate struggle against his pretentions maintained by the inhabitants of Makkah might have induced its conqueror to mark his indignation in indelible traces of fire and blood. But Muhammad, excepting a few criminals, granted a universal pardon; and, nobly casting into oblivion the memory of the past, with all its mockery, its affronts and persecution, he treated even the foremost of his opponents with a gracious and even friendly consideration. Not less marked was the forbearance shown to Abdullah and the disaffected citizens of Madinah, who for so many years persistently thwarted his designs and resisted his authority, nor the clemency with which he received submiss ive advances of tribes that before had been the most hostile, even in the hour of victory.

I think Muhammad is a good man who followed the things that are preached in your scriptures, a smart man and a fatherly figure for muslims.

 

[kai]

I think Muhammad is a good man who followed the things that are preached in your scriptures, a smart man and a fatherly figure for muslims.

you wouldnt be Lawrence of Arabia by any chance?

 

[darkendless]

well guess what? i too only read the Kur'an and have never really read any hadiths. it's not how much material you read, it's how much you believe it and how well you interpret it. it's how you chose to portray it that is the problem. you chose to portray Muhammed (saws) as a false prophet so thats why you do not have much information or knowledge, i on the other hand chose to accept his message and i find more things about him in less material than you do.

i accept Isa (as) as a prophet or Jesus if you wish to call him like that. and i also accept all the other prophets because if i didn't then i could not be a muslim.

Exactly, i do not accept that Mohammed was a divine man. Nothing in a book will convince me. Ancient historians are famous liars. Would you accept that Julius Caesar was a a divine man because he was great because of the repuatation he built up. Of course you wouldn't. But im not one to pick and choose.

 

[Gharib]

Exactly, i do not accept that Mohammed was a divine man. Nothing in a book will convince me. Ancient historians are famous liars. Would you accept that Julius Caesar was a a divine man because he was great because of the repuatation he built up. Of course you wouldn't. But im not one to pick and choose.

you tell me where does it say that Muhammed (saws) became a prophet by having power????
he claimed prophethood way before he came to power, and in the contrary there were others who had power over him, who could have easily killed him but Allah didn't allow that.

how do you explain that,

 

[darkendless]

you tell me where does it say that Muhammed (saws) became a prophet by having power????
he claimed prophethood way before he came to power, and in the contrary there were others who had power over him, who could have easily killed him but Allah didn't allow that.

how do you explain that,

Im sure it was all Allah

Power would have given him the oppurtunity to silence his enemies. Deny that and you're kidding yourself. History has proven us 9 times out of 10 people have to die for ideas and people to succeed. Its just the way things were.

Given that, Mohammed was still a great man who united his people. To be honest with you, i believe his "divinity" drew people to him but his power would have ensured that his divinity was not questioned. Another example of this kind of power was Xerxes.

 

[Gharib]

Im sure it was all Allah

yes it was (does that answer your souspiciounes)

Power would have given him the oppurtunity to silence his enemies. Deny that and you're kidding yourself. History has proven us 9 times out of 10 people have to die for ideas and people to succeed. Its just the way things were.

ok lets put it this way.
george bush has power why can't he silence his enemies such as the protestors in his own country, the people who say he is a terrorist again from his own country, why cant he??? what he doesn't have such powers?? yeah, right

so i'll say this to you: if you deny that people spoke the truth about Muhammed (saws) then you are kidding your self.

Given that, Mohammed was still a great man who united his people.

thank you i agree 100% on this, i'm with you on this

 

[darkendless]

yes it was (does that answer your souspiciounes)



ok lets put it this way.
george bush has power why can't he silence his enemies such as the protestors in his own country, the people who say he is a terrorist again from his own country, why cant he??? what he doesn't have such powers?? yeah, right

so i'll say this to you: if you deny that people spoke the truth about Muhammed (saws) then you are kidding your self.



thank you i agree 100% on this, i'm with you on this

Its no longer acceptable to "silence enemies." Don't think im attacking muslims here, Christians are just the same.

 

[gnostic]

ok lets put it this way.
george bush has power why can't he silence his enemies such as the protestors in his own country, the people who say he is a terrorist again from his own country, why cant he??? what he doesn't have such powers?? yeah, right

A very poor choice of example, because you have only proven us right. You have only refuted your own point, eselam.

With the media that cover him, both pro-Bush and anti-Bush can view what he do and hear what he say. Everyone can made a decision of what sort of person he is like, without larger than life embellishments.

You can't do that with Muhammad, because all the Muslim historians and biographers can be biased, and are free to embellished what he say and what he do, hiding any flaws that he may or may not have. There are no contemporary views of what the other side view him as. Those who could write about him, have converted and become followers, and hence not impartial, and those he had quashed and dead before they can write anything, showed only one-side of the Muhammad.

You still don't get it, do you?

Because I feel that I wasting my time on explaining thing to you.

 

[Gharib]

A very poor choice of example, because you have only proven us right. You have only refuted your own point, eselam.

With the media that cover him, both pro-Bush and anti-Bush can view what he do and hear what he say. Everyone can made a decision of what sort of person he is like, without larger than life embellishments.

ok if you say so then, yes it was poor choice, i wont disagree

You can't do that with Muhammad, because all the Muslim historians and biographers can be biased, and are free to embellished what he say and what he do, hiding any flaws that he may or may not have. There are no contemporary views of what the other side view him as. Those who could write about him, have converted and become followers, and hence not impartial, and those he had quashed and dead before they can write anything, showed only one-side of the Muhammad.

so tell me this: how did Muhammed (saws) know wether anyone was writing his biography or what what ever you wish to call it. how could he have possibly known that. do you know what i'm writing in my books??? no you don't and you never will.

so heres another question for you to answer: how did Muhammed (saws) know what people were writing about him???? ( now please do not go saying he searched houses or anything similar that wont be a very effective answer)

clearly way before his time people were able to send messages around the world without anyone knowing about it so how did he????

You still don't get it, do you?

i do get it but, it's you who doesn't get it my friend. i do not need to convince my self of anything it's you who needs convincing of the truth

Because I feel that I wasting my time on explaining thing to you.

this is true. but i still i would like you to answer my questions if MY message doesn't get through to YOU.

all the best wishes, eselam

 

[Renji]

you wouldnt be Lawrence of Arabia by any chance?

Haha.No. But my mother named me after Lawrence of Arabia. Back to the topic

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

If you really want to know what non-Muslims see about Muhammad, then you should ask real non-Muslim people today, not someone about a century-and-half ago.

Fine!

I'm a present-day Baha'i (and thus not a Muslim). Please feel free to ask me!

Bruce

 

[K.Venugopal]

Greetings!

Fine!

I'm a present-day Baha'i (and thus not a Muslim). Please feel free to ask me!

Bruce

Interesting. What is your opinion about Mohammad?

 

[gnostic]

i do get it but, it's you who doesn't get it my friend. i do not need to convince my self of anything it's you who needs convincing of the truth

But this topic is not about you or what you believe, is it, eselam?

It is topic about Muhammad seen through the "Eyes of Non-Muslims".

I say that there are no CONTEMPORARY non-Muslim sources, so we don't have a full picture of Muhammad. We only have CONTEMPORARY Muslim sources that talk of what he is like, and that often lead to exaggeration and embellishment.

That's what I mean about it is hardly considered to be impartial sources, testimonies or witnesses.

Let me give you a friend or family member giving alibi to a guy arrested for a specific crime, is not worth more than an alibi from someone the guy he don't know, because a friend or family member could lie about the whereabouts the guy.

In the eyes of Muslims, Muhammad is seen as a hero, and would not hesitate embellished his characteristics and deeds.

 

[Gharib]

It is topic about Muhammad seen through the "Eyes of Non-Muslims".

you are right on this. so this is what i have to say.
Tariq opened this topic with a statement of a non muslim saying what a great man Muhammed (saws) was. and still you and all other non muslims claim that Muhammed (saws) forced people to wright only good things about him, right.
so tell me this: did the quuen of england tell that man to wright something good about Muhamed (saws) and if he didn't she would have his head on a plate. which muslim forced him to say good things about Muhammed (saws)????

I say that there are no CONTEMPORARY non-Muslim sources, so we don't have a full picture of Muhammad. We only have CONTEMPORARY Muslim sources that talk of what he is like, and that often lead to exaggeration and embellishment.

well just because you and i haven't found any CONTEMPORARY non muslim sources about Muhammed (saws) that doesn't mean there aren't any. there probably are many but you chose not to believe them because they say the truth about Muhammed (saws) and you do not like him and do not whish to accept that he was a good man.

Let me give you a friend or family member giving alibi to a guy arrested for a specific crime, is not worth more than an alibi from someone the guy he don't know, because a friend or family member could lie about the whereabouts the guy.

i don't understand this part?????

In the eyes of Muslims, Muhammad is seen as a hero,

you are very right here

 

[gnostic]

Tariq opened this topic with a statement of a non muslim saying what a great man Muhammed (saws) was. and still you and all other non muslims claim that Muhammed (saws) forced people to wright only good things about him, right.

But that's not contemporary view, and I mean contemporary to Muhammad's time.

 

[Gharib]

But that's not contemporary view, and I mean contemporary to Muhammad's time.

yeah whats the difference, and by the way i axplained that at the end of my statement. did you read it all or not?

:no:

 

[darkendless]

yeah whats the difference, and by the way i axplained that at the end of my statement. did you read it all or not?

:no:

Are you reading what we have been saying for 3 pages? Every source on Mohammed is biased because every source against him will have "conveniently disappeared." Why would muslims allow sources to exist that question the divinity of Mohammed?