Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in the Eyes of Non-Muslims

[kai]

whats the point in arguing an article of faith ,the Islamic view of Mohamed is taken on Faith, If someone professes to be a Muslim then that is what they have decided to believe,there is no point arguing over it, thats the sad thing about religion sometimes fact and faith get a little mixed up.

Mohamed obviously was a great leader and strategist, he united the Arab tribes and started a very near irresistible force which culminated in the Vast empires of the Ottomans, all the rest i take with a pinch of salt

 

[Gharib]

Are you reading what we have been saying for 3 pages? Every source on Mohammed is biased because every source against him will have "conveniently disappeared." Why would muslims allow sources to exist that question the divinity of Mohammed?

please explain to me how it would have dissapeared. did Muhammed (saws) do house searches and the writters were that dumb to leave it lying on the table???
come on, you and everyone else hate admiting that our prophet was and is a great man and a great influence on this world. if not for the non muslims then for the 1.5 billion muslims.
say no, and i would take that as a big joke.

anyway tell me who tolled that guy to write about Muhammed (saws) and what a great man he was, did anyone force him?? what was his reason?? ( the man at the start of the thread that Tariq has mention)

 

[Gharib]

whats the point in arguing an article of faith ,the Islamic view of Mohamed is taken on Faith, If someone professes to be a Muslim then that is what they have decided to believe,there is no point arguing over it, thats the sad thing about religion sometimes fact and faith get a little mixed up.

Mohamed obviously was a great leader and strategist, he united the Arab tribes and started a very near irresistible force which culminated in the Vast empires of the Ottomans, all the rest i take with a pinch of salt

if you are saying that Muhammed (saws) was a good man looking at him from a non religious perspective then thank you. you are the only person around here who judges according to reality.

first of all we must accept Muhammed (saws) before we accept islam, so in a way our view of him isn't after we become muslims, it's before we become muslims. and thats the main part of becoming a muslim. we must accept the prophet first before we accept the religion.

 

[darkendless]

please explain to me how it would have dissapeared. did Muhammed (saws) do house searches and the writters were that dumb to leave it lying on the table???
come on, you and everyone else hate admiting that our prophet was and is a great man and a great influence on this world. if not for the non muslims then for the 1.5 billion muslims.
say no, and i would take that as a big joke.

anyway tell me who tolled that guy to write about Muhammed (saws) and what a great man he was, did anyone force him?? what was his reason?? ( the man at the start of the thread that Tariq has mention)

Did i not 2 pages ago tell you that i agreed that he was a great man? Gosh mate, pay attention. The reason i have trouble admitting his infuelnce is a great thing is because of the mindless sheep his work has produced. Islam is a very narrow-minded and dominating religion.

Why do you think that guy wrote it? Because he wanted to tell the world how divine Mohammed is? give me a break. What do all writers write for? $$$$ thats what.

You've never studied history outside Islam have you? If yoiu had, you would have known that people who wrote about people Mohammed would have to select their words carefully or fear the wrath of Mohammeds supporters.

 

[Gharib]

Did i not 2 pages ago tell you that i agreed that he was a great man? Gosh mate, pay attention. The reason i have trouble admitting his infuelnce is a great thing is because of the mindless sheep his work has produced. Islam is a very narrow-minded and dominating religion.

ok sorry for not remembering that.
are you calling us muslims mindless sheep??? thats a joke mate,right?
ok the reason why we muslims are very narrow-minded is because the non muslims are very wide-minded and have made up lots of things that aren't true and so we as musmlims have answers to everything from Allah. we have arguments from our creator that help us distinguish between good and bad, between true and false. you wide-minded people accept anything and everything, and when it comes to accepting the truth you see it a lie because of your false information that you have accepted,

Why do you think that guy wrote it? Because he wanted to tell the world how divine Mohammed is? give me a break. What do all writers write for? $$$$ thats what.

are you saying that i would right good things about george bush just to make money?? give me a break

You've never studied history outside Islam have you? If yoiu had, you would have known that people who wrote about people Mohammed would have to select their words carefully or fear the wrath of Mohammeds supporters.

nah, i'm just a teenager i don't even know my own history,
the leader of my country has supporters too, and i can write anything that i want about the leader of this country, and publish it in every newspaper without even being touched by no one.

 

[K.Venugopal]

...first of all we must accept Muhammed (saws) before we accept islam...

But wasn't Mohammad only a messenger? Isn't the message (Islam) more important than the messenger?

 

[darkendless]

ok sorry for not remembering that.
are you calling us muslims mindless sheep??? thats a joke mate,right?
ok the reason why we muslims are very narrow-minded is because the non muslims are very wide-minded and have made up lots of things that aren't true and so we as musmlims have answers to everything from Allah. we have arguments from our creator that help us distinguish between good and bad, between true and false. you wide-minded people accept anything and everything, and when it comes to accepting the truth you see it a lie because of your false information that you have accepted,

are you saying that i would right good things about george bush just to make money?? give me a break

nah, i'm just a teenager i don't even know my own history,
the leader of my country has supporters too, and i can write anything that i want about the leader of this country, and publish it in every newspaper without even being touched by no one.

Im not joking you just proved me right. This whole everything came from Allah arguement is tiresome (not only from this thread) and mindless. Where is your reasoning. Have you ever thought that maybe it wasn't Allah? Re-read what you said and try and think outside the square. The reason i do not accept what you're saying is because it just doesn't make logical sense. Its like you've removed reasoning from your life. If you want to do that so be it, but i refuse to accept your truth based on what you've told me.

We know what most muslims know about George Bush, thats a poor example. I don't think its worthwhile trying to argue this point with you.

Oh and im only 18, so im still a teenager as well. I know enough of history from school about how things were conducted back in the times of Mohammed. Times have changed my friend. 1400 years ago free speech did not exist in the civilised world. That you can be sure of.

Also whats with the whole Peace be upon him thing? Jesus died 2000 years ago and we don't say PBUH. Is it out of respect?

 

[Rolling_Stone]

sorry to break it to you but he has been dead for 1400 years

Just my luck.

 

[Gharib]

But wasn't Mohammad only a messenger? Isn't the message (Islam) more important than the messenger?

ofcourse the message is more important, but first you must believe that the messenger of that message is telling the truth. we believe that Muhammed (saws) is the prophet and therefore we accept his message.
you cannot go accepting the message without it being delivered can you?

 

[Gharib]

I get spooked by "peace and blessings of Allah be upon him" every time Mohammad's name is used. It sure as hell doesn't make him endearing. On the contrary, I'd like to shoot the guy.

dear friend
can you please watch your tounge when you say something about the prophet (saws) now unless you too wish to be offended please go ahead other wise please be quiet.

 

[Gharib]

Im not joking you just proved me right.

how did i do that?

This whole everything came from Allah arguement is tiresome (not only from this thread) and mindless. Where is your reasoning. Have you ever thought that maybe it wasn't Allah?

i'll take that as a joke or something, right. that is your intention to be funny, right.

Re-read what you said and try and think outside the square.

what am i sopposed to re-read

The reason i do not accept what you're saying is because it just doesn't make logical sense. Its like you've removed reasoning from your life. If you want to do that so be it, but i refuse to accept your truth based on what you've told me.

what are you tlking about?
ofcourse everyone has reasoning in their life. but i tolled you that we muslims have arguments from Allah to help us in these sort of situations, so in a way i'm saying that anything you try to say to me or try to prove me wrong it wont work. just a waste of time to tell you the truth.

We know what most muslims know about George Bush, thats a poor example. I don't think its worthwhile trying to argue this point with you.

so tell me who didn't know about Muhammed (saws), didn't he become a "fears" leader that didn't let any non-muslims to wright about him.

Oh and im only 18, so im still a teenager as well.

welcome to the club.

I know enough of history from school about how things were conducted back in the times of Mohammed. Times have changed my friend. 1400 years ago free speech did not exist in the civilised world. That you can be sure of.

well unfortunately i don't do history at school like you.
ofcourse the times have changed? back then they had no cars and now we do.
so you are saying that those writters who wanted to wright something about our prophet couldn't send their books/scriptures/pages to someone outside of arabia?
if they weren't able to do that then what sort of animals were they?

Also whats with the whole Peace be upon him thing? Jesus died 2000 years ago and we don't say PBUH. Is it out of respect?

you could say it's out of respect, but then again they deserve the peace and blessings of Allah. and just because you do not say peace and blessings of Allah upon Jusus (as) we muslims do.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

dear friend
can you please watch your tounge when you say something about the prophet (saws) now unless you too wish to be offended please go ahead other wise please be quiet.

Too late. I am already offended by Islam's exclusiveness.

 

[darkendless]

how did i do that?

i'll take that as a joke or something, right. that is your intention to be funny, right.

what am i sopposed to re-read

what are you tlking about?
ofcourse everyone has reasoning in their life. but i tolled you that we muslims have arguments from Allah to help us in these sort of situations, so in a way i'm saying that anything you try to say to me or try to prove me wrong it wont work. just a waste of time to tell you the truth.

so tell me who didn't know about Muhammed (saws), didn't he become a "fears" leader that didn't let any non-muslims to wright about him.

welcome to the club.
well unfortunately i don't do history at school like you.
ofcourse the times have changed? back then they had no cars and now we do.
so you are saying that those writters who wanted to wright something about our prophet couldn't send their books/scriptures/pages to someone outside of arabia?
if they weren't able to do that then what sort of animals were they?

you could say it's out of respect, but then again they deserve the peace and blessings of Allah. and just because you do not say peace and blessings of Allah upon Jusus (as) we muslims do.

You have allah's guidance? If unfortunate and bad things happen to you is that Allah punishing you? What i'm trying to say is from observation you aren't objectively seeking to reason outside 'Allah's Guidance." If you are content with your faith that Allah is guiding you, thats fine, but your refusal to admit that maybe Mohammed had his enemies deposed of is concerning. I just think as Muslims your faith is so strong that at times you may use Allah's guidamce when instead you should be using your head.

Ok with the history thing, its just how things were done. Only the works of well known writiers survive today. Those writers could not publish work without everyone knowing they'd done so. Therefore, all writers (that would be credible) would have attracted a lot of attention especially if the spoke against Mohammed. Therefore people would have "removed them from society" to stop them writing what they saw as lies.

 

[Gharib]

You have allah's guidance? If unfortunate and bad things happen to you is that Allah punishing you?

yeah of course. everything good that comes to us is because of Allah, but everything bad that comes to us, comes because we deserve it, we have owned that punishment. do you think Allah created us to take his anger out on us? no i don't think so, but when we dissobey him, we harm others for example, then we get punished.

What i'm trying to say is from observation you aren't objectively seeking to reason outside 'Allah's Guidance."

who says i'm not?
you give me hard evidence, then please go ahead i'm listening. but if you keep going on about how Muhammed (saws) "took care" of those who were writing bad about him, then thats a waste of time.
give another exaple. what else did Muhammed (saws) do to people who were writting bad about him? was it just writters who were able to say those things?
i mean i as a muslim can find all the hadiths of the prophet because people passed them one (mouth to mouth sort of thing). so if there were any bad things about Muhammed (saws) then wouldn't people pass that on just as they passed on his great work and his hadiths.
to tell you the truth i see you as not wanting to look at the facts and the history properly.

If you are content with your faith that Allah is guiding you, thats fine, but your refusal to admit that maybe Mohammed had his enemies deposed of is concerning.

ok then give me other proof that Muhammed (saws) was such a man.
you and everyone else on this thread keep on saying that he killed his enemies (writters for example). what else did he do? oh, i forgot you don't have anyother information because Muhammed (saws) took care of those people who wrote bad things about him, am i right?

I just think as Muslims your faith is so strong that at times you may use Allah's guidamce when instead you should be using your head.

there is no better thing to do than ask Allah for help in every matter, he is the All Knower.

Ok with the history thing, its just how things were done. Only the works of well known writiers survive today.

so couldn't they have memorised it and passed it on generation after generation, just as we have been doing with his hadiths?

Those writers could not publish work without everyone knowing they'd done so. Therefore, all writers (that would be credible) would have attracted a lot of attention especially if the spoke against Mohammed. Therefore people would have "removed them from society" to stop them writing what they saw as lies.

and so they couldn't travel to a different place and publish it with the help of some rich guy who was against Muhammed (saws).
come on be reasonable here, don't just wright things.

 

[darkendless]

yeah of course. everything good that comes to us is because of Allah, but everything bad that comes to us, comes because we deserve it, we have owned that punishment. do you think Allah created us to take his anger out on us? no i don't think so, but when we dissobey him, we harm others for example, then we get punished.

who says i'm not?
you give me hard evidence, then please go ahead i'm listening. but if you keep going on about how Muhammed (saws) "took care" of those who were writing bad about him, then thats a waste of time.
give another exaple. what else did Muhammed (saws) do to people who were writting bad about him? was it just writters who were able to say those things?
i mean i as a muslim can find all the hadiths of the prophet because people passed them one (mouth to mouth sort of thing). so if there were any bad things about Muhammed (saws) then wouldn't people pass that on just as they passed on his great work and his hadiths.
to tell you the truth i see you as not wanting to look at the facts and the history properly.

ok then give me other proof that Muhammed (saws) was such a man.
you and everyone else on this thread keep on saying that he killed his enemies (writters for example). what else did he do? oh, i forgot you don't have anyother information because Muhammed (saws) took care of those people who wrote bad things about him, am i right?

there is no better thing to do than ask Allah for help in every matter, he is the All Knower.


so couldn't they have memorised it and passed it on generation after generation, just as we have been doing with his hadiths?

and so they couldn't travel to a different place and publish it with the help of some rich guy who was against Muhammed (saws).
come on be reasonable here, don't just wright things.

You can believe what you want to believe, no comment there.

Once again you fail to understand. There is no hard evidence. What do you think happened to the people who did not accept Mohammed as their saviour? Do you think the people who did accept Mohammed would allow them to live with the "blessed people?" Honestly. Please do me a favour and go and study Roman and Greek History. That way you will understand that back in the day, it was acceptable just to kill people for the greater good. This areguement is going no where. Perhaps Mohammed was great and his influence on people caused them not to sin, not to kill their enemies? But to accept that based on the fact that strangely, no evidence exists is foolish. Theres a reason no evidence exists.

 

[Gharib]

Theres a reason no evidence exists.

yeah there is evidence but you fail to accept it.
if there is no evidence of Muhammed (saws) being a bad man, then why do you wish to find that sort of evidence.
the reason why there isn't any evidence of him being a bad man is because Muhammed (saws) was exactly as he is being desbribed by the non muslim guy at the start of the thread. and everyone who has written about him has tolled the truth.
if you do not accept that, then thats fine, but do not say that Muhammed (saws) was amurderor who killed people for writting about him

 

[darkendless]

yeah there is evidence but you fail to accept it.
if there is no evidence of Muhammed (saws) being a bad man, then why do you wish to find that sort of evidence.
the reason why there isn't any evidence of him being a bad man is because Muhammed (saws) was exactly as he is being desbribed by the non muslim guy at the start of the thread. and everyone who has written about him has tolled the truth.
if you do not accept that, then thats fine, but do not say that Muhammed (saws) was amurderor who killed people for writting about him

If you had studied history you would know never to trust exactly whats in front of you. I do not trust the evidence on Mohammed because in order to make him look like a prophet, all contrary evidence would be destroyed. 1400 years ago this would have been more than likely.
Also, this guy only had what we have today to study Mohammed. So of course he's going to think hes a saint. But hes going by whats in front of him and not using his reasoning and critical thinking.

 

[Gharib]

If you had studied history you would know never to trust exactly whats in front of you. I do not trust the evidence on Mohammed because in order to make him look like a prophet, all contrary evidence would be destroyed. 1400 years ago this would have been more than likely.
Also, this guy only had what we have today to study Mohammed. So of course he's going to think hes a saint. But hes going by whats in front of him and not using his reasoning and critical thinking.

so, you've started to use history as an excuse now.
i know as much history as a historian does. i do not nedd to know about the history in the 7'th century. i know even before that.

so tell me then why didn't the enemies of Muhammed (saws) pass on their information just like we muslims have passed his hadiths. not written anywhere just memorised, from mind to mind for 1400 years
i forgot to add this, there was nothing bad to memorise about the prophet (saws) because if there was something bad it would have moved on just as his great words did.
doesn't history teach that

 

[darkendless]

so, you've started to use history as an excuse now.
i know as much history as a historian does. i do not nedd to know about the history in the 7'th century. i know even before that.

so tell me then why didn't the enemies of Muhammed (saws) pass on their information just like we muslims have passed his hadiths. not written anywhere just memorised, from mind to mind for 1400 years
i forgot to add this, there was nothing bad to memorise about the prophet (saws) because if there was something bad it would have moved on just as his great words did.
doesn't history teach that

Im not making excuses if you're going to be like that then i can be just a narrow-minded as you can be. Obviously you either don't know or are just completely ignorant of the time period.

The enemies of muslims would not have had a chance to publish. Who would publish, and more so who would read what any of them wrote when they had been subdued by Mohammed. Take Saudi Arabia for example. What would happen if i went there and published an article in the newspaper saying that Mohammed is a liar and theat he is not a prophet.
1) people would not care what i wrote
2) they would be angry and try to kill me
3) i would not benefit from the trouble

For once do you see what im getting at. These people stood to lose a lot whilst gaining nothing by attacking the divinity of Mohammed. I thought on the 2nd page or so you said you've never read the Hadiths
If there was bad things about Mohammed. Similiar to the example above would have occured.

 

[Gharib]

Im not making excuses if you're going to be like that then i can be just a narrow-minded as you can be. Obviously you either don't know or are just completely ignorant of the time period.

i think were goin in circles here.

The enemies of muslims would not have had a chance to publish. Who would publish, and more so who would read what any of them wrote when they had been subdued by Mohammed. Take Saudi Arabia for example. What would happen if i went there and published an article in the newspaper saying that Mohammed is a liar and theat he is not a prophet.
1) people would not care what i wrote
2) they would be angry and try to kill me
3) i would not benefit from the trouble

well they could have gone to a non muslim coutry and complained there and tolled the people of the other country what a bad man Muhammed (saws) was.

For once do you see what im getting at. These people stood to lose a lot whilst gaining nothing by attacking the divinity of Mohammed.

but they could have remembered them and passed them on generation after generation. ok ok heres something else, by your claims and by historical evidences as well there seems to be a problem here, you speak as if it was just one person who hated Muhammed (saws) and so he had no one to tell about Muhammed (saws). what i'm saying is that everyone accepted Muhammed (saws) as being a great man and leader and this one person didnt want to become a muslim so he wanted to say bad things about Muhammed (saws) but had no one to tell it to. am i right or am i wrong? thats what YOU are saying in accordance to your information so far, not me

I thought on the 2nd page or so you said you've never read the Hadiths

i havn't read any hadiths, a couple maybe. where did i say i have. i said we remembered them ( do you understand what i mean by we, the muslims, not me nesessaraly)

If there was bad things about Mohammed. Similiar to the example above would have occured.

well the other countries sure might have hated him.
you probably can't go to saudi arabia but you sure can to a non muslim country.
and by the way are you an ozzie?