Muhammad's Sword !!!

[Sahar]

Terrorists, their accomplices, and religious leaders who incite to violence should be strictly prosecuted. Honor killings should be strictly prosecuted.

But this is already done, and they get their punishment!
n it's prohibited by law and religion.

The immigration policies of European countries need to be completely revamped. Greater effort must be made to integrate those Muslim immigrants who are allowed to enter or remain in Europe in European society.

What about the terrorists who attack their own lands, their people, wat can we do in this case as i believe that islamic countries are suffering from terrorism much more than non-muslims?!

 

[Smoke]

But this is already done, and they get their punishment!
n it's prohibited by law and religion.

You mean like the father and uncle of Pela Atroshi, who were sentenced to five months' probation for her murder, or like Faraj Ahman Najmuddin ("Uncle Mullah"), who has been "punished" for his terrorist activities by becoming the darling of the Norwegian press and receiving government aid for his congregation?

What about the terrorists who attack their own lands, their people, wat can we do in this case as i believe that islamic countries are suffering from terrorism much more than non-muslims?!

Again, terrorists, their accomplices, and the religious leaders who incite them to violence should be strictly prosecuted. Such prosecutions should be carried out in Muslim lands as well as in the West.

 

[michel]

You know well Michel more than anyone else in here that we have been debating these verses and made many clearfications about it, which you think it's similar to the one in the bible, thinking by doing that, you will put us in the same boat, but sorry to tell you that you very mistaken in that.

You can read in here some of the verses which you have doubt about in the Quran in this thread for instance.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36419




So cheap, accusing Islam in this way Michel. I'm so disappointed because you proved to me that the good thing you were saying about Islam was just a "hypocrisy" and you showed now your true face to us.



Really?

You mean it doesn't matter whether they reperesent Islam or not just because they are Muslims?

This is a discrimination, because if people from other religions did anything so that have nothing to do with their faith, isn't it?

How absurd !!!



I'll repeat my answer, i never heard of Christian countries except the Vatican.

Thank God, it would be a disaster if a christian country existed (ruled by the church as usual, by someone like the current Pope ).



What are you talking about?

READ the title please (Mohammed's sword) and it talks about the past, present and the future and if you didn't like the OP then you can start a new thread by your own.

I have nothing to offer? LOL

You know? you remind me by myself when i was a teenager because i was seeing the world as WE and THEM the very same as you are doing now. Nevertheless, the more i was getting knowledge whether in school, or from newspapers and reading articles of many western writers i realized, it's not about WE and THEM as you are trying desperately to prove in here in order to let other think it's a clash between their civilization and the Muslims or Islam and to gain their support and emotions automatically just because you are speaking in their name saying "WE in the West".

How odd !!!

Stop being arrogant and narrow sighted Michel, because anyone with the a basic and general amount of knowledge know that the West is no more one country and one block and the same with the middle eastern countries nowadays.

If you want to debate in here so please stop this propaganda and start using (I) instead of (WE) as i instructed you in many threads before.

It's an old game Michel, GET OVER IT.

Please don't call me names, The Truth; just because you cannot justify your point.
Besides, you are reverting to your usual tactic of cyclic ad hominems.

You criticise one post for it's content (trying to make out that it is off topic), then go to the next, using just the same methods.

I nhave posted more than enough evidence on this thread to show that the name of Islam has been used historically to kill, and is being used now, to kill. The future ? Well, I don't have a crystal ball; maybe you have a way of seeing into the future!

as i instructed you in many threads before.

So kind of you to instruct me!

It's an old game Michel, GET OVER IT.

I am not quite sure what you are referring to in the above, but yes, it is an old game; hiding behind answering only points you choose to answer because to address the real crux of the matter would leave your rebuttalls empty and worthless.

I suggest you get over it - and dump your useless red herrings.

If you can't find the posts I have made proving my points, then I am quite prepared to find them for you; but I doubt very much that you would bother to read them. I think you actually believe the nonsense you spout.

 

[TashaN]

Please don't call me names, The Truth; just because you cannot justify your point.

LOL, i did prove my points but you ignored it.

Besides, you are reverting to your usual tactic of cyclic ad hominems.

LOL, tactic !!! ????

You criticise one post for it's content (trying to make out that it is off topic), then go to the next, using just the same methods.

:sarcastic

I nhave posted more than enough evidence on this thread to show that the name of Islam has been used historically to kill

You produced NOTHING to prove that.

and is being used now, to kill.

By misguided Muslims but not because Islam instructed them to do so.

the real crux

If you can't find the posts I have made proving my points

The real crux? and proved points?

I challenge you to bring any evidence from the Quran that ask Muslims to kill people for no reason.

Don't go around now posting from other websites that no one know whether it's telling the truth or not about Muslims.

Just tell me if you can where does the Quran (THE SOURCE FOR MUSLIMS BELIEF) make it ok for people to kill for no reason. That's all.

I'm sure you have NONE but if you just have a look to the bible, you find tons of them.

The problem is that you didn't like that the Quran have no bloody history and crimes the same as the bible so instead of showing where does the Quran do so, you are saying see that muslim here and that one overthere which will not help you to prove that God ordered us to kill people for nothing.

That's why i asked you to get over it because you failed to put Islam in the same bloody boat with Christianity in that issue.

 

[Smoke]

Just tell me if you can where does the Quran (THE SOURCE FOR MUSLIMS BELIEF) make it ok for people to kill for no reason. That's all.

Two questions:
1) Is the Qur'an the only source of Muslim belief?
2) What are the proper Islamic reasons for killing people?

 

[michel]

The truth, The Truth, is that you never accept corroberating evidence; I referred you continuously to my posts (which I don't know if you have been bothered to read), notably, posts #66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 126,127,128,129.

The first range of posts showed the total intollerance of Muslim countries to the wishes of individuals to worship the God of their choice.

The second row of posts (from wikipedia)included the following as witness of the bloodshed of Islam:-

A number of verses in the Qu'ran are viewed by some Muslims as calls to suppress things outside of Islam, in particular portraying certain groups as being disliked by God. Most Muslims see these verses as simply describing Allah's feelings toward non-believers, although a small minority view these as being a call to an anti-non-Muslim jihad. The Qu'ran explicitly prohibits persecution, but a very few claim that the later appearance of the more antagonistic verses is an abrogation of the former, implying God changed his mind.
Several sura present a less than positive picture of Judeo-Christian religions - At-Tawba:30 states that their understandings of certain historical genealogies are inaccurate and deluded. Sura 3:118 continues the theme claiming that such persons desire to harm you severely and hatred has already appeared from their mouths.
Some go further, reflecting Islamic views on the subject of religious idols - Sura 9:5 explicitly states slay the idolaters wherever ye find them. However, it goes on to say if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free.Sahih Bukhari:5.59.522 however condones marriage between Muslim men and non-Muslim women, describing the marriage between Mohammed and Safiya bint Huyai bin Akhtaq, whose husband had been killed in a preceding battle.

I hope this time that you will bother to read the posts. If you cannot be bothered, then I can only conclude that it is because you have nothing to offer in rebuttall.

To which can be added:-http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Bailey/jihad.html
STAGE FOUR: (AFTER CONQUERING MECCA) - OFFENSIVE WAR COMMANDED TO KILL THE PAGANS AND HUMBLE THE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS: [The Muslims continued to gain strength until the Meccans surrendered (in 630 AD). Most of the pagans of the city then became Muslims, so Mohammad and his followers were able to take over the city and cleanse the Ka’aba of some 360 idols resident there. At this point a new order was given to fit the new situation. By this time it was evident that the Jews would not accept Muhammad's claim to be a prophet, so the list of enemies now included all unbelievers - Jews and Christians as well as the pagans. Now it is no longer just defensive fighting, but aggressive Jihad against all unbelievers is commanded. Since this is the final teaching of the Quran regarding Jihad, it is what is still in force today.]
Sura 9:1-6 (Dissolve all treaties with those pagans who haven't kept them, giving them four months notice. But keep your treaties with other idol worshipers till the end of the time agreed upon. In the future, make no more treaties with pagans, but kill those who do not receive Islam.)
"A (declaration) of immunity from God and His Apostle, to those of the pagans [The Meccan idolaters were the primary ones here in view.] with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances. Go ye, then, for four months backwards and forwards (as ye will) throughout the land, [YA: "The pagans and enemies of Islam frequently made treaties of mutual alliance with the Muslims. The Muslims scrupulously observed their part, but the pagans violated their part again and again when it suited them. After some years' experience it became imperative to denounce such treaties altogether. This was done in due form, with four months' notice, and a chance given to those who faithfully observed their pledges, to continue their alliance."] but know ye that ye cannot frustrate God (by your falsehood), but that God will cover with shame those who reject Him. And an announcement from God and His Apostle, to the people (assembled) on the day of the great pilgrimage - that God and His Apostle dissolve (treaty) obligations with the pagans. If, then ye repent, it were best for you. But if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate God. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject faith. [It would seem that the ultimate sin is not believing in Islam, not just failing to keep their treaty agreement.] (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term, for God loveth the righteous. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war). But if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them. [YA: "When war becomes inevitable, it must be prosecuted with vigour ... The fighting may take the form of slaughter, or capture, or siege, or ambush and other stratagems. But even then there is room for repentance and amendment on the part of the guilty party, and if that takes place, our duty is forgiveness and the establishment of peace. "] For God is oft-forgiving, most merciful. If one among the pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the Word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge."
Sura 9:11,12,14,15 (Pagans who accept Islam become brother Muslims. Fight those who break their agreements. God will punish them by your hands.)
"But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayer, and practice regular charity, they are your brethren in faith ... But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your faith, fight ye the chiefs of unfaith, for their oaths are nothing to them ... Fight them and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of believers, and still the indignation of their hearts. For God will turn (in mercy) to whom He will ..."
Sura 9:16 (God knows those who strive with all they have, and don't make friends with or seek protection from non-Muslims)
"Or think ye that ye shall be abandoned, as though God did not know those among you who strive with might and main, and take none for friends and protectors except God, His Apostle, and the (community of) believers? But God is well-acquainted with (all) that ye do." [Notice that now Muslims are commanded to refrain from friendship with all non Muslims. This is because they are in a state of war with them. For this reason the Muslim world is sometimes referred to as, "the house of Islam" while the rest of the world is called "the house of war."]
Sura 9:19-22 (Jihad is greater than other service, and of the highest rank in the sight of God)
"Do ye make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Sacred Mosque, equal to (the pious service of) those who believe in God and the last day, and strive [jihad] with might and main in the cause of God? They are not comparable in the sight of God, and God guides not those who do wrong. Those who believe, and suffer exile and strive with might and main in God's cause with their goods and their persons [YA: "Here is a good description of jihad. It may require fighting in God's cause, as a form of self-sacrifice. But its essence consists in (1) a true and sincere faith, which so fixes its gaze on God that all selfish or worldly motives seem paltry and fade away, and (2) an earnest and ceaseless activity, involving the sacrifice (if need be) of life, person, or property, in the service of God. Mere brutal fighting is opposed to the whole spirit of jihad, which the sincere scholar's pen or preacher's voice or wealthy man's contributions may be the most valuable forms of jihad."] have the highest rank in the sight of God. They are the people who will achieve (salvation). Their Lord doth give them glad tidings of a mercy from Himself, of His good pleasure, and of gardens for them, wherein are delights that endure. They will dwell therein for ever. Verily in God's presence is a reward, the greatest (of all)."

 

[michel]

Part 2
Sura 9:25,26 (fighting in the battle of Hunain Jan. 31, 630)
"Assuredly God did help you in many battlefields and on the day of Hunain. [YA: "Hunain on the road to Taif, about 14 miles to the east of Mecca ... Immediately after the conquest of Mecca (A.H. 8), the pagan idolaters, who were surprised and chagrined at the wonderful reception which Islam was receiving, organized a great gathering near Taif to concert plans for attacking the Apostle.] Behold! Your great numbers elated you, but they availed you naught. That land, for all that it is wide, did constrain you, and ye turned back in defeat. [YA: "There was a wave of confident enthusiasm among the Muslims at Mecca, in which the new Muslims joined. The enemy forces numbered about 4,000, but the Muslim force reached a total of ten or twelve thousand, as everyone wished to join. The enemy had the advantage in knowing the ground thoroughly. They laid an ambush in which the advance guard of the Muslim forces was caught. The country is hilly, in which the enemy concealed himself. As soon as the Muslim vanguard entered the Hunain valley, the enemy fell upon them with fury and caused havoc with their arrows from their places of concealment. In such ground the numbers of the Muslims were themselves a disadvantage. Many were slain, and many turned back in confusion and retreat."] But God did pour His calm on the Apostle and on the believers, and sent down forces which ye saw not. [YA: "But the Apostle, as ever, was calm in his wisdom and faith. He rallied his forces and inflicted the most crushing defeat on the enemy."] He punished the unbelievers; thus doth He reward those without faith."
Sura 9:28 (Forbid the pagans to enter the Ka’aba)
"O ye who believe! Truly the pagans are unclean, [YA: "Unclean: both literally and metaphorically. Because Muslims are enjoined to be strict in ablutions and physical cleanliness, as well as in purity of mind and heart, so that their word can be relied upon."] so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque." [YA: "now that you have complete control of Mecca and are charged with the purity of worship there, shut out all impurity from this year."] [When the pagans were in control and the small number of Muslims were not permitted to enter the Ka’aba, their persecution was called a "sacrilegious act" and "an open declaration of war." Brigadier S. K. Malik says, "The enemy repression reached its zenith when the Koraish denied the Muslims access to the Sacred Mosque to fulfill their religious obligations." Now that the tables are reversed, the denial of the pagans' right to fulfill their religious obligations is not called "repression" but is excused on the grounds that they must "shut out all impurity" because the pagans "are unclean."]
Sura 9:29-31 (fight against Jews and Christians until they are subdued, because God's curse is on them)
"Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. [YA: "Jizya = the root meaning is compensation. The derived meaning, which became the technical meaning, was a poll tax levied from those who did not accept Islam, but were willing to live under the protection of Islam, and were thus tacitly willing to submit to its ideals being enforced in the Muslim State, saving only their personal liberty of conscience as regarded themselves ... It was an acknowledgment that those whose religion was tolerated would in their turn not interfere with the preaching and progress of Islam ... there were exemptions for the poor, for females and children, for slaves and for monks and hermits. Being a tax on able-bodied males of military age, it was in a sense a commutation for military service."] The Jews call Uzair [Ezra] a son of God, [YA: "I have quoted passages from the Old Testament, showing how freely the expression "sons of God" was used by the Jews. A sect of them called Uzair (Ezra) a son of God, according to Baidhawi."] and the Christians call Christ the Son of God ... God's curse be on them; how they are deluded away from the truth! They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of God, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary. Yet they are commanded to worship but One God ..." [YA: "The deification of the son of Mary is put here in a special clause by itself, as it held (and still holds) in its thrall a large portion of civilized humanity."]
Sura 9:38,39,41 (Don't avoid fighting, but fight with whatever you have. Otherwise God will punish you with serious punishment.)
"O ye who believe! What is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of God, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place ... Go ye forth, (whether equipped) lightly or heavily, [YA: "All were invited, and they were to bring such resources as they had - light armed or heavy armed, on foot or mounted, experienced men for posts of danger, raw men for duties for which they were fit. All would and should help. Even those who were too old or feeble to go could contribute such money or resources as they had."] and strive [jihad] and struggle with your goods and your persons, in the cause of God. That is best for you, if ye (but) knew."
Sura 9:52,73 (Muslims can expect either martyrdom/paradise or victory in battle. Unbelievers can expect only punishment from God. Fight hard against unbelievers, whose abode is hell.)
"Say, ‘Can you expect for us (any fate) other than one of two glorious things - (martyrdom or victory)? But we can expect for you either that God will send His punishment from Himself, or by our hands. So wait (expectant). We too will wait with you.’ ... O Prophet! Strive [jihad] hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is hell - an evil refuge indeed."
Sura 9:81-96 (Those who are able but don't want to fight are rejected of God. Those unable are forgiven.)
"Those who were left behind (in the Tabuk expedition) rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the apostle of God. They hated to strive and fight with their goods and their persons, in the cause of God. They said, ‘Go not forth in the heat.’ [YA: "The Tabuk expedition had to be undertaken hurriedly in the heat of summer, because of a threat or fear of Byzantine invasion."] [This war took place late in 630AD and is the first war against Christians.] ...If, then, God bring thee back to any of them, and they ask thy permission to come out (with thee), say, ‘Never shall ye come out with me, nor fight an enemy with me. For ye preferred to sit inactive on the first occasion. Then sit ye (now) with those who lag behind.’ Nor do thou ever pray for any of them that dies, nor stand at his grave. For they rejected God and his apostle, and died in a state of perverse rebellion. Nor let their wealth nor their sons dazzle thee. God's plan is to punish them with these things in this world, and that their souls may perish in their (very) denial of God. When a sura comes down, enjoining them to believe in God and to strive and fight along with his apostle, those with wealth and influence among them ask thee for exemption, and say, ‘Leave us (behind). We would be with those who sit (at home).’ They prefer to be with (the women), who remain behind (at home). [YA: "There is a stinging taunt in this, a suggestion that such men were cowards"] Their hearts are sealed and so they understand not. But the apostle, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons. For them are (all) good things, and it is they who prosper. God hath prepared for them gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein ... There is no blame on those who are infirm, or ill, or who find no resources to spend (on the cause), if they are sincere (in duty) to God and his apostle ... Nor (is there blame) on those who came to thee to be provided with mounts, and when thou saidst, ‘I can find no mounts for you’ they turned back. Their eyes streaming with tears of grief that they had no resources wherewith to provide the expenses..."
Sura 9:111 (God gives Paradise to those who give all they have to God and slay and/or are slain in Jihad.)

 

[michel]

Part 3
"God hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods. For theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise). They fight in His cause, and slay and are slain." [YA: "We offer our whole selves and our possessions to God, and God give us salvation, i.e., eternal freedom from the bondage of this world. This is the true doctrine of redemption ... Any other view of redemption is rejected by Islam, especially that of corrupted Christianity, which thinks that some other person suffered for our sins and we are redeemed by his blood. It is our self-surrender that counts, not other people's merits. Our complete self-surrender may include fighting for the cause, both spiritual and physical."]
Sura 9:122 (not everyone should go to fight, and those who stay are equal with those who go)
"Nor should the believers all go forth together. If a contingent from every expedition remained behind, they could devote themselves to studies in religion, and admonish the people when they return to them..." [YA: "Even among those who are able to go forth, a party should remain behind - one in each township or circle - for purposes of study, so that when the fighters return home, their minds may be attuned again to the more normal interests of religious life, under properly instructed teachers. The students and teachers are soldiers of the Jihad in their spirit of obedience and discipline."]
Sura 9:123 (fight the unbelievers surrounding you)
"O ye who believe! Fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you, and know that God is with those who fear Him." [YA: "When conflict becomes inevitable, the first thing is to clear out surroundings of all evil, for it is only evil that we can rightly fight."]
The suras above are as quoted in the Qu'ran........
If you refuse to accept the evidence when you are pointed to it, well, then there is no purpose in trying to educate you. Presumably you prefer to believe what you chose to believe.
Sura 5:36-38 (death or torture to those who oppose the Apostle)
"The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land. [YA: "For the double crime of treason against the state, combined with treason against God, as shown by overt crimes, four alternative punishments are mentioned, any one of which is to be applied according to the circumstances, viz., execution (cutting off the head), crucifixion, maiming, or exile. These were features of the criminal law then and for centuries afterwards, except that tortures such as "hanging, drawing and quartering" in English Law, and piercing of eyes and leaving the unfortunate victim exposed to a tropical sun, which was practised in Arabia, and all such tortures were abolished. In any case sincere repentance before it was too late was recognised as a ground for mercy."] [see Hadith 4:261 below] That is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the hereafter, except for those who repent before they fall into your power. In that case, know that God is oft-forgiving, most merciful. O ye who believe! Do your duty to God. Seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in His cause, that ye may prosper."
Sura 5:54 (Don't befriend Jews or Christians because they are unjust and unreliable)
"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust." [YA: "They are more likely to combine against you than to help you. And this happened more than once in the lifetime of the Apostle, and in after-ages again and again. He who associates with them and shares their counsels must be counted as of them."] [In the early days in Mecca the enemies were the pagan Quraish while Jews and Christians were respected. In Medina, after the Jews rejected Mohammad's claim of prophet-hood, the enemies of Islam grew to include the Jews and Christians.]

THE LAW OF ABROGATION: [According to the Quran itself (Sura 2:106, 13:39 and 16:103) God sometimes substitutes a "better" verse or passage for one previously given, thus superceding the first one. Sura 2:106: "None of our revelations (verses) do we abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but we substitute something better or similar. Knowest thou not that God hath power over all things?"; Sura 13:39: "God doth blot out or confirm what he pleaseth. With Him is the Mother of the Book."; Sura 16:101: "When we substitute one revelation for another, - and God knows best what He reveals (in stages), - they say, ‘Thou are but a forger’ but most of them understand not." Although all Muslim scholars believe that God replaced some earlier verses by substituting later verses, there is a great difference of opinion among them as to which verses supercede which verses. Nevertheless, most are agreed that Sura 9:5, (called "the verse of the sword") supercedes most of the previous verses regarding jihad. Some believe it supercedes as many as 111 previous verses. In spite of this general agreement, many today quote the previous replaced verses in order to validate their perception of Islam being a peaceful religion. Thus modern, liberal Muslim leaders, especially here in the west, are teaching what could be called "the Islam of Mecca" with its emphasis on non violence and tolerance. At the same time, "the Islam of Medina," with its more aggressive, totalitarian nature is what is being practiced and taught by orthodox, fundamentalist Muslims in most parts of the Muslim world.]

 

[TashaN]

That's insane. everybody (or most of people) knows that your answering-islam website as a plain anti-islam one. Do you think i gonna answer every single line of that trash you gathered from that website?

It's not worth it because it's a plain christian website and taking verses out of context as it's clear to everyone.

Really really, i didn't expect you to copy and paste trash from anti-islam websites.

You know?

You will find all the answers for these things in another website which is answering your garbage.

http://answering-christianity.com/ac.htm

I didn't expect you to start the childish throwing "anti" website feeble tactic. I expected somthing better from someone like you.

 

[jewscout]

That's insane. everybody (or most of people) knows that your answering-islam website as a plain anti-islam one. Do you think i gonna answer every single line of that trash you gathered from that website?

It's not worth it because it's a plain christian website and taking verses out of context as it's clear to everyone.

Really really, i didn't expect you to copy and paste trash from anti-islam websites.

You know?

You will find all the answers for these things in another website which is answering your garbage.

http://answering-christianity.com/ac.htm

I didn't expect you to start the childish throwing "anti" website feeble tactic. I expected somthing better from someone like you.

what hypocracy. The same slam you gave to the answering-islam site can be given to your answering-christianity website.

it's all, to use your phrase, "anti"

 

[TashaN]

what hypocracy. The same slam you gave to the answering-islam site can be given to your answering-christianity website.

it's all, to use your phrase, "anti"

You know well jewscout that i didn't use that website before and i just posted it to please him. I don't need such a thing.

 

[michel]

what hypocracy. The same slam you gave to the answering-islam site can be given to your answering-christianity website.

it's all, to use your phrase, "anti"

Thanks Huff; The Truth............the suras (as I have quoted them ) are they fabricated ? Has someone changed the words ?...........

You are so quick to dismiss anything that doesn't support your claim; what a pity you can't prove where the errors lie.

 

[jewscout]

You know well jewscout that i didn't use that website before and i just posted it to please him. I don't need such a thing.

then why use it? it's obvious that one of these sites was created as a rebuttal to the other, each coming from equally biased and scewed perspectives with agendas.

if you have sources of a greater academic calaber, then why not use those? wouldn't such source material give greater weight and credibility to your arguement?

 

[michel]

You know well jewscout that i didn't use that website before and i just posted it to please him. I don't need such a thing.

What on Earth are you trying to say ? I do wish you would try to answer accusations with something better than "You know well jewscout that i didn't use that website before and i just posted it to please him."..............:areyoucra

 

[Smoke]

That's insane. everybody (or most of people) knows that your answering-islam website as a plain anti-islam one.

True enough. Here's an answer from a Muslim website (http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=43087&ln=eng):

Question:
Was Islam spread by the sword?.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

​

We have already stated in question no. 34830 that jihad is of two types: taking the initiative in fighting and jihad in self-defence. ​

Undoubtedly taking the initiative in fighting has a great effect in spreading Islam and bringing people into the religion of Allaah in crowds. Hence the hearts of the enemies of Islam are filled with fear of jihad.

In the English-language Muslim World Magazine it says: There should be some kind of fear in the western world, one of the causes of which is that since the time it first appeared in Makkah, Islam has never decreased in numbers, rather it has always continued to increase and spread.

Moreover Islam is not only a religion, rather one of its pillars is jihad.
Robert Bean says: The Muslims conquered the entire world before and they could do it again.

The Orientalists wanted to slander Islam by claiming that it was spread by the sword.

The orientalist Thomas Arnold wrote his book The Preaching of Islam with the aim of killing off the spirit of jihad among the Muslims and proving that Islam was not spread by the sword, rather that it spread by means of peaceful preaching, free from any use of force.

The Muslims fell into the trap that was set up for them. When they heard the orientalists’ accusations that Islam was spread by the sword, they said: You are mistaken, listen to a refutation from one of your own people, this Thomas says such and such.

​

The defeatists among the Muslims come out to defend Islam, and they want to disavow Islam of this so-called lie, so they deny that Islam was spread by the sword, and they say that jihad is not prescribed in Islam, except in the case of self-defence. There is no such thing in Islam as taking the initiative in fighting in their view. This goes against what the Muslim scholars have stated, let alone the fact that it goes against the Qur’aan and Sunnah. ​

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 28/263.

The purpose is that all religion should be for Allaah alone, and that the word of Allaah should be supreme. The word of Allaah is a comprehensive phrase that refers to His words that are contained in His Book. Hence Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Indeed We have sent Our Messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance (justice) that mankind may keep up justice”
[al-Hadeed 57:25]

​

The purpose behind sending the Messengers and revealing the Books was so that mankind might keep up justice with regard to the rights of Allaah and the rights of His creation. Then Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ​

“And We brought forth iron wherein is mighty power (in matters of war), as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allaah may test who it is that will help Him (His religion) and His Messengers in the unseen”
[al-Hadeed 27:25]

So whoever deviates from the Book is to be brought back with iron, i.e. by force. Hence the soundness of the religion is based on the Qur’aan and the Sword. It was narrated that Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded us to strike with this, meaning the sword, whoever turns away from this, meaning the Qur’aan.

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Faroosiyyah (p.18):

​

Allaah sent him – meaning the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – with the guiding Book and the conquering sword, ahead of the Hour, so that Allaah alone would be worshipped with no partner or associate, and his provision was placed beneath the shade of his sword and spear. Allaah has established the religion of Islam with proof and evidence, and with the sword and spear, both together and inseparable. ​

This is some of the evidence from the Qur’aan and Sunnah. The evidence clearly indicates that the sword is one of the most important means that led to the spread of Islam.

1 – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“For had it not been that Allaah checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, wherein the Name of Allaah is mentioned much would surely, have been pulled down. Verily, Allaah will help those who help His (Cause). Truly, Allaah is All-Strong, All-Mighty”
[al-Hajj 22:40]

“And if Allaah did not check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief. But Allaah is full of bounty to the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists)”
[al-Baqarah 2:251]

2 – Allaah has commanded us to prepare the means of fighting against the kuffaar and frightening them. He says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war (tanks, planes, missiles, artillery) to threaten the enemy of Allaah and your enemy, and others besides whom, you may not know but whom Allaah does know”
[al-Anfaal 8:60]

 

[Smoke]

(Continued)

​

If Islam was only spread by peaceful means, what would the kuffaar have to be afraid of? Of mere words spoken on the tongue? In al-Saheehayn it is narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I have been supported with fear as far as a month’s journey.” Would the kuffaar be afraid of being told, “become Muslim, but if you do not then you are free to believe and do whatever you want”? or were they afraid of jihad and the imposition of the jizyah and being humiliated? That may make them enter Islam so that they may be spared this humiliation. ​

3 – When the Messenger called people to Islam, his call was accompanied by the sword, and he commanded his leaders to do likewise, so that when the people saw the serious of the Muslims in calling people to their religion, that dispelled any confusion.

Al-Bukhaari (3009) and Muslim (2406) narrated that Sahl ibn Sa’d (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said on the day of Khaybar: “Tomorrow I will give the banner to a man at whose hands victory will come, one who loves Allaah and His Messenger, and Allaah and His Messenger love him.” The people spent that night wondering which of them would be given the banner and all of them were hoping for it. Then he (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) said, “Where is ‘Ali?” It was said, “His eye is hurting.” So he spat in his eyes and made du’aa’ for him, and he was healed, as if there had not been anything wrong with him. Then he gave him the flag and he [‘Ali] said: “Shall I fight them so that they will be like us?” He said: “Go ahead, until you reach their encampment, then call them to Islam and tell them what they are obliged to do, for by Allaah if Allaah were to guide a man at your hands that would be better for you than having red camels [the best kind].”

So this call to Islam was accompanied by the force of arms.

Muslim (3261) narrated that Buraydah said: When the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) appointed a commander to lead an army or a raiding party, he would advise him to fear Allaah with regard to himself and the Muslims with him, then he said: “Fight in the name of Allaah and for the sake of Allaah. Fight those who disbelieve in Allaah, fight but do not steal from the war booty (before it is shared out), betray, or mutilate. Do not kill children. If you meet your enemy of the mushrikeen, call them to three things, and whichever one of them they respond to, accept that from them and leave them alone. Then call them to Islam and if they respond, accept that from them and leave them alone. If they refuse but they pay the jizyah, then they have responded to you, so accept that from them and leave them alone. If they refuse then seek the help of Allaah and fight them…”

So the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told his commanders to call the kuffaar to Islam whilst wielding their swords over their heads. If they refused to become Muslim then they should pay the jizyah with humility. If they refused then there was nothing left for them but the sword – “If they refuse then seek the help of Allaah and fight them”

4 – The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I have been sent ahead of the Hour with the sword so that Allaah will be worshipped alone, and my provision has been placed in the shade of my spear, and humiliation has been decreed for those who go against my command, and whoever imitates a people is one of them.” Narrated by Ahmad, 4869; Saheeh al-Jaami’, 2831.

The fact that the sword and power were means of spreading Islam is not a sources of shame for Islam, rather it is one of its strengths and virtues, because that makes people adhere to that which will benefit them in this world and in the Hereafter. Many people are foolish and lacking in wisdom and knowledge, and if they are left to their own devices they will remain blinded to the truth, indulging in their whims and desires. So Allaah has prescribed jihad in order to bring them back to the truth and to that which will benefit them. Undoubtedly wisdom dictates that the fool should be prevented from doing that which will harm him, and should be forced to do that which will benefit him.

Al-Bukhaari (4557) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “ ‘You (true believers in Islamic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad and his Sunnah) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind’ [Aal- Imraan 3:110 – interpretation of the meaning].” He said: “You are the best (i.e., the most beneficial) of people for mankind, you bring them in the chains that are around their necks until they enter Islam.” Can people be brought in chains except in the case of jihad??

​

This is something for which Islam deserves to be praised, not condemned. The defeatists should fear Allaah lest they distort this religion and cause it to become weak on the basis of the claim that it is a religion of peace. Yes, it is the religion of peace but in the sense of saving all of mankind from worshipping anything other than Allaah and submitting all of mankind to the rule of Allaah. This is the religion of Allaah, not the ideas of any person or the product of human thought, so that those who promote it should feel ashamed to state its ultimate goal, which is that all religion (worship) should be for Allaah alone. When the ideas that people follow are all produced by human beings and the systems and laws that control their lives are all made up by human beings, then in this case each idea and each system has the right to live safely within its own borders so long as it does not transgress the borders of others, so the various ideas and laws can co-exist and not try to destroy one another. But when there is a divine system and law, and alongside it there are human systems and laws, then the matter is fundamentally different, and the divine law has the right to remove the barriers and free people from enslavement to human beings…​

Fiqh al-Da’wah by Sayyid Qutb, 217-222.

It says in Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (12/14):

Islam spread by means of proof and evidence to those who listened to the message and responded to it, and it spread by means of force and the sword to those who were stubborn and arrogant, until they were overwhelmed and became no longer stubborn, and submitted to that reality.

And Allaah knows best.

 

[AbuQuteiba]

Wait. Was this thread started to prove that Muhammed used compulsion "the sword" when spreading Islam? Or is it about Jihad?

 

[Smoke]

Wait. Was this thread started to prove that Muhammed used compulsion "the sword" when spreading Islam? Or is it about Jihad?

This is getting to be a recurring theme on this thread. The thread was started by a Muslim, and as far as I can tell, the purpose was to give a completely false impression of Muslim history and military conquest.

 

[kai]

Wait. Was this thread started to prove that Muhammed used compulsion "the sword" when spreading Islam? Or is it about Jihad?

the idea of spreading islam by the sword is Jihad, its the justification of extending muslim territory , and please dont tell me "its the struggle with the inner self" its jihad of the sword midnight blue is referring to whether it be in the time of Mohammed(pbuh) or the caliphs its relevant to the thread

 

[Snowbear]

Wait. Was this thread started to prove that Muhammed used compulsion "the sword" when spreading Islam? Or is it about Jihad?

Isn't the spreading of Islam through the sword a form of 'lesser' Jihad?