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Peace said:Right, Christians and Jews can keep their own religion. But what do the Qur'an and the hadith tell us about Christians and Jews who refuse to submit to Muslim rule?michel said:Fine! to me is my religion and to you your religion. There is no compulsion in Islam.
michel said:The Truth, had it not been for your reply, I would not have been prompted to do some research; I think even you might be surprized by what I have unearthed.
Perhaps you could look at these three links, and explain them :-
(Please see http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39491&page=7 # 66)
http://www.freewebs.com/rfnewsletter/Untitled-3.html
Edit:- I have just realised that I have forgotten to quote the souce, which is:-
http://www.persecution.com/sitemap/index.cfm
Muhammad's Sword seems to be taken rather litterally in those countries.........
That was the original set of dhimmi laws. If you follow the links in mMichel's post (2 posts above yours), you will see that many of them are still in full force in most Islam ruled countries.New Life said:Can someone tell me if this law is still in effect in Islamic run countries??
Thank you very much for this information by the way.
i'm w/ Midnight, frubals for you! The problem is really that i get the impression from some muslims on RF that their history exists in a vaccum of infallibility, when they are just, and have been just, as capable of doing good and evil as the next guy.fullyveiled muslimah said:Am I saying that all the wars that muslims ever took part in throughout history was justified and righteous? No I am not. Am I saying that an unjust muslim ruler of a land never oppressed the non-muslims living under them? No, again I am not. I don't think my muslim borthers and sisters will disagree with me either.
The Truth said:Dear Michel, show me which country (except Saudi Arabia) forbad any Christian from being Christian and practicing his faith?Even if there is one or more country (which i don't know yet) beside Saudi arabia so is that mean islam teach this? The answer definitely is, No. Also, you said most of muslim countries which is absolutely, inaccurate.Remember that there is more than 1 billion muslim around the world so think of that when you say most. Saudi arabia don't represent Islam more than the US representing Christianity, don't you agree with me?
what ever?The Truth said:So what's the problem if during that time people accepted Islam by their own will? no problem
Is it wrong?
no
No body force no one to enter to Islam.
no its not, no dhimmi no jisya so everyone whop is not a muslim is unprotected especialy under sharia because no jisya no protection. so in effect the posts so kindly by michel show that incidents of persecution to non muslims can by some muslims be considered ok because they dont pay the jisyaNew Life said:Can someone tell me if this law is still in effect in Islamic run countries??
Thank you very much for this information by the way.
kai said:no its not, no dhimmi no jisya so everyone whop is not a muslim is unprotected especialy under sharia because no jisya no protection. so in effect the posts so kindly by michel show that incidents of persecution to non muslims can by some muslims be considered ok because they dont pay the jisya
MdmSzdWhtGuy said:Yeah Michel,
But do you have anything overwhelming and convincing? (JOKE) That was a very extensive list and confirms a lot of what I have heard about those places from other sources, thanks for the elaborate post.
B.
michel said:I'm sorry, I know it was too long, but I really wanted to make an impact. I hear so much about people feeling victimised that I must admit, I am fed up with it; I want the other side of the story to be made clear.
well done sister.fullyveiled muslimah said:Again, all muslims are painted with the same brush. We are devils in disguise and the essence of wolves in sheeps clothing.
I am not one to turn my face from the truth. I would never deny the corruption that takes place in places where there is a large muslim population. I have said it before and I will say it again, the governments in power in these places have little to do with Islam as it should be practiced. It is a wrong assumption that Islam causes such corrupt behaviour. Corruption is the same everywhere when it comes down to the reasons why it exists: the greed for wealth, power, and land.
Again, I have never said nor implied that muslims were perfect and that at any given time, we are incapable of wrongdoing. What i have said, is that Islam is not a cause for this behavior. Case in point is Afghanistan. It is interesting to note these numbers in a country that American government actually chose the government in power there now. It was the Bush administration that deemed the perpetrators of this bad behavior as acceptable and tolerant muslims. Interesting that it is simply not being publicly reported about these incidents, but that they continue unadulterated.
I guess after this post, another post will be put up as a reply that further indicates the evil of muslims and the evil of Islam. What we have been saying falls only on deaf ears. Of all the things I wrote on this subject, I didn't get frubals until I "admitted" wrongdoing. Not that I post things to get frubals from anyone.
So the next question becomes, since most of the people posting on this thread have agreed that Islam and the muslims are evil, what are the non-muslims going to do about us? Any suggestions?
But "Islam as it should be practiced" doesn't mean anything. Why should any non-Muslim give Islam as it is practiced credit for a theoretical, potential Islam?fullyveiled muslimah said:I have said it before and I will say it again, the governments in power in these places have little to do with Islam as it should be practiced.
But why, after 1400 years of Islam, are the lands where Islam is the dominant religion still the most repressive and intolerant in the world? Why is Muslim religious violence so much more common today than any other kind of religious violence? Aren't these questions that peaceful Muslims should be asking?fullyveiled muslimah said:It is a wrong assumption that Islam causes such corrupt behaviour. Corruption is the same everywhere when it comes down to the reasons why it exists: the greed for wealth, power, and land.
No, the question is, if Islam is indeed -- or can be -- a religion of peace, then what are you and the other peaceful Muslims going to do about Muslim violence?fullyveiled muslimah said:So the next question becomes, since most of the people posting on this thread have agreed that Islam and the muslims are evil, what are the non-muslims going to do about us? Any suggestions?