Muhammad's Sword !!!

[kai]

Again, all muslims are painted with the same brush. We are devils in disguise and the essence of wolves in sheeps clothing.

I am not one to turn my face from the truth. I would never deny the corruption that takes place in places where there is a large muslim population. I have said it before and I will say it again, the governments in power in these places have little to do with Islam as it should be practiced. It is a wrong assumption that Islam causes such corrupt behaviour. Corruption is the same everywhere when it comes down to the reasons why it exists: the greed for wealth, power, and land.

Again, I have never said nor implied that muslims were perfect and that at any given time, we are incapable of wrongdoing. What i have said, is that Islam is not a cause for this behavior. Case in point is Afghanistan. It is interesting to note these numbers in a country that American government actually chose the government in power there now. It was the Bush administration that deemed the perpetrators of this bad behavior as acceptable and tolerant muslims. Interesting that it is simply not being publicly reported about these incidents, but that they continue unadulterated.

I guess after this post, another post will be put up as a reply that further indicates the evil of muslims and the evil of Islam. What we have been saying falls only on deaf ears. Of all the things I wrote on this subject, I didn't get frubals until I "admitted" wrongdoing. Not that I post things to get frubals from anyone.

So the next question becomes, since most of the people posting on this thread have agreed that Islam and the muslims are evil, what are the non-muslims going to do about us? Any suggestions?

it seems obvious that you are fighting a hard battle to convince people that Islam is the religion of peace when the evidence is to the contrary ,the constant response that "its nothing to do with Islam" is fast becoming a statement of incredulity if dozens of muslim countries are full of such ideological violence and intimidation, what on earth do you expect us to think?
constantly i see posts denying or whitewashing muslim military expansion in history we have ummayadds,Abassids,seljuks,Almoravids ,Almohads,ottomans
conquering vast tracts of the world and when you bring it up guess what ? its nothing to do with Islam.
without trying to be offensive Islam is and was always there in the background or foreground, the denial has a tendency to make people believe that something is being hidden or why deny it!

 

[TashaN]

From the mighty Wikki.
Here are the original rules that the dhimmis had to agree to...

Inaccurate. Wiki doesn't know Islam more than i do. Don't you think so?

 

[TashaN]

when were jews trying to eliminate Christians? and with what army?

I agree that the first organized army for the jews in their history was under the Israli army but don't get me wrong, i was referring to the jews when they wanted for prophet Jesus "peace be upon him" to be crucified.

 

[kai]

I agree that the first organized army for the jews in their history was under the Israli army but don't get me wrong, i was referring to the jews when they wanted for prophet Jesus "peace be upon him" to be crucified.

wow thats below the belt TT you going to get some stick for that one because "its nothing to do with judaism"

 

[TashaN]

it would have been a darn sight safer in the middle ages than setting up shop now thats for sure. and what happened to those who were not offered dhimmitude TT like pagans etc

I have to search more about it kai but don't worry they won't kill them for not being muslims or from the people of the book.

I believe that, most of the rules were meant for that particular time and also because muslims had to make some rules for those who wanted to live with them after they entered to the city, and after fighting each other. Those who are citizens are just like the muslims citizens in treatments. There is so huge difference between the two as i stated in a pervious post of mine.

 

[Snowbear]

Inaccurate.

Prove it.

 

[TashaN]

Why did they attack and conquer all those cities and lands?

Can you please post # 169 in this link below.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=600276#post600276

 

[kai]

Can you please post # 169 in this link below.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=600276#post600276

the truth are you trying to tell me that the muslim empires of the past were really freeing people from tyranny and oppresion, that it was a graet philanthropic adventure for humanities own good!

 

[shema]

the truth are you trying to tell me that the muslim empires of the past were really freeing people from tyranny and oppresion, that it was a graet philanthropic adventure humanities own good!

In a way. At first there was only one Muslim empire, which was the one that Mohammed started. The only people who were actually doing the oppressing were the rich merchantiles of Mecca. The werent sharing their money with the poor. Boo-Hoo-Hoo. Other than that it was to each its own. Then they did'nt believe that he was the messenger of God. and He got a lot of flack, like ridicule and people leaving feces on his doorsteps. The Meccans felt that when he got his revalations, he could have been detrimental to their policies and some of them plotted to kill him. So he left Mecca heading towards the outer skirts of Media along with some propagandists to gather converts. His first converts were 12 men who went to the annual pilgramage to the Ka abah. and then 39, then 70, etc....
My problem is that people were always going to be oppressed as long as people have a humanistic nature.
Blacks were oppressed for 400 years, way worst than the meccans. But did civil rights workers overtake the government? no. they fought for their rights peacefully and got them.

Now I believe Mohammed really believed that he was the messanger of God. However the God of Abraham would not have gave him the revalation to break the jews of medina and make them pay half of their hard earned crops.

 

[TashaN]

Yeah well we don't have to talk about it, the majority of non muslims on this thread are more than happy to point it out. Anyone who spends three days on this forum will most definately see a fair share of anti-islamic comment plus a large amount of questionable history regarding Islam and the only pro-islamic comments they will find will come from muslims themselves. I rarely see people talking positively about Isam on this forum. Even with the article Truth just posted I haven't seen much positive feedback... it's almost as if people don't want to hear about the good things Islam has done.

Brother Ezzedean, it's ok whether people say good things about Islam or not. This must increase your faith and belief in God even stronger and much more than before.

Don't forget what God told our beloved prophet, Mohammed "peace be upon him" in Surah 2, verse 120.

[120] Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say: "The Guidance of Allah, that is the (only) Guidance," wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor Helper against Allah.

 

[TashaN]

The problem is really that i get the impression from some muslims on RF that their history exists in a vaccum of infallibility, when they are just, and have been just, as capable of doing good and evil as the next guy.

In Islam, we don't believe there is holy leaders and no muslim will tell you that all muslims leader in the history were like angels. We are JUST saying don't judge Islam because of the followers of Islam. This is our ONLY and ULTIMATE message.

Fair or not?

 

[TashaN]

because no jisya no protection.

What will happen if you didn't pay the tax in your country, kai?

It's the same thing. Please read about the Jizyah in post # 44, 47 and 48. I guess you ignored my explainations in my pervious posts which is disappointing, kai.

Regarding Michel's posts, i don't have the time to reply to all of it because it's sooooo much. Nevertheless, from what i read, its seems that,

- Some countries have "some" muslims extremist so the site claim why they attacking "some" other christians.

- Some countries are not even muslim countries like Eritrea, Ethiopia and many others even their leaders are CHRISTIANS.

- Some countries, both muslims and non-muslim are suffering from the secular government like Algeria and there is alot of my "MUSLIM" friends here studying with me in Malaysia who escaped from their country because they have been prescuted and the same case with Tunis and many other secular countries.

- Some countries decleared themselves as Islamic countries with Islam as an offecial religion which doesn't allow christians to spread their faith but they have full rights to practice their religion of course.

And there is alot of comments but this is some of what i read from his posts which is clearly biased and unfair.

Therefore, you better copy and paste from unbiased sources in the future.

 

[shema]

Brother Ezzedean, it's ok whether people say good things about Islam or not. This must increase your faith and belief in God even stronger and much more than before.

Don't forget what God told our beloved prophet, Mohammed "peace be upon him" in Surah 2, verse 120.

[120] Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say: "The Guidance of Allah, that is the (only) Guidance," wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor Helper against Allah.

Ok but wasn't it the jews and Christians who had to pay the jyza/toll, even when they were living in that land toll free already when Mohammed moved to media? I believe so. So how did he say we would never be satisfied unless you all followed our religion? hasnt it been the other way around?

 

[kai]

What will happen if you didn't pay the tax in your country, kai?
we dont have a seperate tax depending on which religion or race you are
It's the same thing. Please read about the Jizyah in post # 44, 47 and 48. I guess you ignored my explainations in my pervious posts which is disappointing, kai.i read your posts and you have not understood me i said that some muslims use the excuse that the christians or jews or bahai do not pay jisya so it is not against sharia to treat them badly, and i never ignore your explanations TT this is a case where sharia gives ammunition to muslims who wish to harm others by stating they do not pay jisya they are not protected

Regarding Michel's posts, i don't have the time to reply to all of it because it's sooooo much. Nevertheless, from what i read, its seems that,

- Some countries have "some" muslims extremist so the site claim why they attacking "some" other christians.

- Some countries are not even muslim countries like Eritrea, Ethiopia and many others even their leaders are CHRISTIANS.

- Some countries, both muslims and non-muslim are suffering from the secular government like Algeria and there is alot of my "MUSLIM" friends here studying with me in Malaysia who escaped from their country because they have been prescuted and the same case with Tunis and many other secular countries.

- Some countries decleared themselves as Islamic countries with Islam as an offecial religion which doesn't allow christians to spread their faith but they have full rights to practice their religion of course.

And there is alot of comments but this is some of what i read from his posts which is clearly biased and unfair.

Therefore, you better copy and paste from unbiased sources in the future.

..............

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

it seems obvious that you are fighting a hard battle to convince people that Islam is the religion of peace when the evidence is to the contrary ,the constant response that "its nothing to do with Islam" is fast becoming a statement of incredulity if dozens of muslim countries are full of such ideological violence and intimidation, what on earth do you expect us to think?

Actually, I don't even want to convince anyone of anything. I am just stating the difference between Islam being a source of trouble and muslims being a source of trouble. You know it wouldn't even be a debate if you all would rephrase the statement from Islam is violent to muslims have been violent, and in some situations muslims react with violence. Those would be two totally different remarks, and you wouldn't really get oppossition to it. You will always get oppossition from us when there are attempts made to group all of us as one in the same.

constantly i see posts denying or whitewashing muslim military expansion in history we have ummayadds,Abassids,seljuks,Almoravids ,Almohads,ottomans
conquering vast tracts of the world and when you bring it up guess what ? its nothing to do with Islam.

Did I not affirm the truth of history in my previous posts? I do not whitewash Islam, but do not expect me to say that Islam is inherently violent, and that I am violent because of it. That's simply not true.

without trying to be offensive Islam is and was always there in the background or foreground, the denial has a tendency to make people believe that something is being hidden or why deny it!

Again, I do not attempt to hide anything or apologise for Islam or apologise for being a muslim. I already stated that not all the wars that muslims ever participated in were good a righteous. What part of that don't you understand? Am I speaking english? Am I writing in english? I think I am. I also think you understand what I have said thus far.



In America muslims are free to practice the religion. All would agree that that is very sweet of the American government yes? Let me tell you the price of that freedom. There are two families that I am very close with. They are both african american families and they are muslim. One family in particular came back to America two years ago, after having studied Islam in Eygpt for several years. The husband and father of five, went to apply for a job in the prison system. For several years before leaving to study Islam, he was a chaplain for muslims who were in jail. He couldn't get that job. In fact, he couldn't get any job. During his tenure in Egypt he was diagnosed with kidney failure and diabetes. He was receiving medical treatment there. Do you know why he couldn't get a job? Because he and his wife had been placed on the national list for terrorists suspects. He is not able to apply for ANY job whatsoever and neither is his wife. Without a job he cannot pay any rent, or get any food. He is forbidden to receive any public welfare, even food stamps to feed his children. When he asked to go back to Egypt so that he can make a living, they told him he would be jailed indefinitely if he tried to leave the country. He cannot recieve proper medical treatment because he has no medical insurance and cannot apply. He is made to reside in the masjid, and the community helps him with his needs by the grace and mercy of Allah. He is dying, and when he dies his wife will still be on that list. There is only one way for him to get off that list. He must work for the government in covert operations overseas, in order to help them to wage psychological warfare on the muslims in Iraq and whatever country they decide he should work in. Also, he must tell them that all the muslims that he knows, are involved in terrorists plots so that we too can be placed on this list. They promised him in return for this service, they would give him $25,000 dollars on the spot. Also, they would pay him $100,000 a year and provide a home for him and his family. They even agreed that the government would continue to provide for his family in the event of his death. He flatly refused each time. Why did he refuse? Because to tell lies on people, and to assist in the unjust annihilation of a people not to mention fellow muslims, is to negate one's iman. They have essentially asked him to give up Islam for the wealth of this world. That is the price of being able to worship as we want in this country.

You can beleive it or you can doubt it, it is all the same to me. It is true however, and I would rather be killed outright than die a slow death at the hands of this government. We have all gathered to support him in whatever way we can, despite being watched and harrassed every so often. Is there one person on this forum that would suffer on behalf of his fellow man like this? Would any of you give up your rights to work and live for the sake of your religion?

These are the prices that many of us pay to worship freely. Those who are not directly affected as much as this man are affected by association with him. These are the things that Bush won't tell any of the media.

 

[TashaN]

Prove it.

Post # 44, 47 and 48

 

[kai]

Actually, I don't even want to convince anyone of anything. I am just stating the difference between Islam being a source of trouble and muslims being a source of trouble. You know it wouldn't even be a debate if you all would rephrase the statement from Islam is violent to muslims have been violent, and in some situations muslims react with violence. Those would be two totally different remarks, and you wouldn't really get oppossition to it. You will always get oppossition from us when there are attempts made to group all of us as one in the same.
i have stated before that because there is provision in Islam for violence and war then some muslims may interpret that provision to justify acts of violence that is my position



Did I not affirm the truth of history in my previous posts? I do not whitewash Islam, but do not expect me to say that Islam is inherently violent, and that I am violent because of it. That's simply not true.
you have indeed and i rspect you for that and i dont beleive for one minute that you are violent




Again, I do not attempt to hide anything or apologise for Islam or apologise for being a muslim. I already stated that not all the wars that muslims ever participated in were good a righteous. What part of that don't you understand? Am I speaking english? Am I writing in english? I think I am. I also think you understand what I have said thus far. my arguement is not with you if i am not dissagreeing with you then you have no need to dissagree with me



In America muslims are free to practice the religion. All would agree that that is very sweet of the American government yes? Let me tell you the price of that freedom. There are two families that I am very close with. They are both african american families and they are muslim. One family in particular came back to America two years ago, after having studied Islam in Eygpt for several years. The husband and father of five, went to apply for a job in the prison system. For several years before leaving to study Islam, he was a chaplain for muslims who were in jail. He couldn't get that job. In fact, he couldn't get any job. During his tenure in Egypt he was diagnosed with kidney failure and diabetes. He was receiving medical treatment there. Do you know why he couldn't get a job? Because he and his wife had been placed on the national list for terrorists suspects. He is not able to apply for ANY job whatsoever and neither is his wife. Without a job he cannot pay any rent, or get any food. He is forbidden to receive any public welfare, even food stamps to feed his children. When he asked to go back to Egypt so that he can make a living, they told him he would be jailed indefinitely if he tried to leave the country. He cannot recieve proper medical treatment because he has no medical insurance and cannot apply. He is made to reside in the masjid, and the community helps him with his needs by the grace and mercy of Allah. He is dying, and when he dies his wife will still be on that list. There is only one way for him to get off that list. He must work for the government in covert operations overseas, in order to help them to wage psychological warfare on the muslims in Iraq and whatever country they decide he should work in. Also, he must tell them that all the muslims that he knows, are involved in terrorists plots so that we too can be placed on this list. They promised him in return for this service, they would give him $25,000 dollars on the spot. Also, they would pay him $100,000 a year and provide a home for him and his family. They even agreed that the government would continue to provide for his family in the event of his death. He flatly refused each time. Why did he refuse? Because to tell lies on people, and to assist in the unjust annihilation of a people not to mention fellow muslims, is to negate one's iman. They have essentially asked him to give up Islam for the wealth of this world. That is the price of being able to worship as we want in this country.

You can beleive it or you can doubt it, it is all the same to me. It is true however, and I would rather be killed outright than die a slow death at the hands of this government. We have all gathered to support him in whatever way we can, despite being watched and harrassed every so often. Is there one person on this forum that would suffer on behalf of his fellow man like this? Would any of you give up your rights to work and live for the sake of your religion?

These are the prices that many of us pay to worship freely. Those who are not directly affected as much as this man are affected by association with him. These are the things that Bush won't tell any of the media.

that is a bad story it should be brought out in the open , newspapers attorneys etc

 

[TashaN]

we dont have a seperate tax depending on which religion or race you are

We are talking about a time where people's head was choped off if they didn't convert to christianity as what happened in Spain in the past, but there was no such a thing in Islam.

You told me you didn't ignore my pervious posts but it's clear that you did. Nowadays no body is paying the Jizyah because as i told you before christians and jews are citizens, but not enemies of the country who are willing to live with the muslims.

i read your posts and you have not understood me i said that some muslims use the excuse that the christians or jews or bahai do not pay jisya so it is not against sharia to treat them badly,

Prove it kai. Do you think muslims are barbaric or came from the moon?

Do i look like one who will think like this? just say it.

Do you think any muslim in this forum whom you have been contacting and talking with would think the same way you are talking about?

I admit it, people in RF don't think the muslims in here are muslims but they want to see the REAL MUSLIMS IN THE MEDIA, is it?

FOR GOD'S SAKE. PLEASE TALK WITH ME BUT NOT TO ME JUST FOR ONE TIME.

Go a head kai and turn on your TV and let it tell you who are muslims. I realize now it's useless to talk about it anymore. Feel free to think about us as you want.

If this is what you want kai, i won't even bother to discuss with you such a thing anymore.

and i never ignore your explanations TT this is a case where sharia gives ammunition to muslims who wish to harm others by stating they do not pay jisya they are not protected

THERE IS NO JIZYAH ANYMORE BECAUSE NOWDAYS CHRISTIANS AND JEWS ARE NORMAL CITIZENS IN ANY MUSLIM COUNTRY, BUT NOT WARIORS AND THEY HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS MUSLIMS AND YOU KEEP IGNORING MY PERVIOUS POSTS ALL OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

 

[Ezzedean]

We are talking about a time where people's head was choped off if they didn't convert to christianity as what happened in Spain in the past, but there was no such a thing in Islam.

You told me you didn't ignore my pervious posts but it's clear that you did. Nowadays no body is paying the Jizyah because as i told you before christians and jews are citizens, but not enemies of the country who are willing to live with the muslims.

[/color][/color]

Prove it kai. Do you think muslims are barbaric or came from the moon?

Do i look like one who will think like this? just say it.

Do you think any muslim in this forum whom you have been contacting and talking with would think the same way you are talking about?

I admit it, people in RF don't think the muslims in here are muslims but they want to see the REAL MUSLIMS IN THE MEDIA, is it?

FOR GOD'S SAKE. PLEASE TALK WITH ME BUT NOT TO ME JUST FOR ONE TIME.

Go a head kai and turn on your TV and let it tell you who are muslims. I realize now it's useless to talk about it anymore. Feel free to think about us as you want.

If this is what you want kai, i won't even bother to discuss with you such a thing anymore.



THERE IS NO JIZYAH ANYMORE BECAUSE NOWDAYS CHRISTIANS AND JEWS ARE NORMAL CITIZENS IN ANY MUSLIM COUNTRY, BUT NOT WARIORS AND THEY HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS MUSLIMS AND YOU KEEP IGNORING MY PERVIOUS POSTS ALL OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

I know how you feel... I'm slowly beginning to get frustrated with people telling ME who I AM. Telling me about my faith and what it teaches, when in reality they have no idea what my faith is and what it teaches. People don't want to understand how small of a percentage Al-quada and Taliban are to Islam, but the media has made it seem like they ARE Islam. People don't want to hear the good things about Islam Truth, they don't care nor do they believe it. Then again, I could just be one of those sensitive muslims who reacts unreasonably.

I know muslims... I know Islam... I open the doors to my house to anyone on this forum who wants to see what the muslim community is like here where I live. I can easily say that the people I introduce to you will be the most humble, respectful, gracious, hospitable and intelligent people you'll ever meet, and it's not fake... it's real... it's who we are... and it's what Islam teaches to be. I've worked hard at portraying Islam to everyone on this forum as it really is, but no one listens... they don't even read the posts because they are too busy thinking of how to retaliate... even to a peaceful post I've been replied back to in an aggresive way... and all I could do was ask "why are you reacting like this? I'm agreeing with you". I'll find the post if anyone wants to see it, and send it in a private msg. Again, this just may be the sensitive muslim in me.... but like I've already stated in another post; Islam is the most attacked faith on this site..hands down...and you guys wonder why we rally together. Don't get me wrong though... I don't lose any sleep over it, just letting Truth know that I know how he feels.

Peace and Blessings

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

I know how you feel... I'm slowly beginning to get frustrated with people telling ME who I AM. Telling me about my faith and what it teaches, when in reality they have no idea what my faith is and what it teaches. People don't want to understand how small of a percentage Al-quada and Taliban are to Islam, but the media has made it seem like they ARE Islam. People don't want to hear the good things about Islam Truth, they don't care nor do they believe it. Then again, I could just be one of those sensitive muslims who reacts unreasonably.

I know muslims... I know Islam... I open the doors to my house to anyone on this forum who wants to see what the muslim community is like here where I live. I can easily say that the people I introduce to you will be the most humble, respectful, gracious, hospitable and intelligent people you'll ever meet, and it's not fake... it's real... it's who we are... and it's what Islam teaches to be. I've worked hard at portraying Islam to everyone on this forum as it really is, but no one listens... they don't even read the posts because they are too busy thinking of how to retaliate... even to a peaceful post I've been replied back to in an aggresive way... and all I could do was ask "why are you reacting like this? I'm agreeing with you". I'll find the post if anyone wants to see it, and send it in a private msg. Again, this just may be the sensitive muslim in me.... but like I've already stated in another post; Islam is the most attacked faith on this site..hands down...and you guys wonder why we rally together. Don't get me wrong though... I don't lose any sleep over it, just letting Truth know that I know how he feels.

Peace and Blessings

Right. They wonder why we cluster together as though we are being attacked. It's because we are being attacked. Across the world through words and deeds we are. Yet Islam is looked down upon for allowing us to defend ourselves through words and deeds. We are called unjust, tyranical, extreme, barbaric, terrorists, and supporters of all this. They ask us not to whitewash anything in Islam, and I ask them not to whitewash thier true feelings. There are those on this site that echo the prejudices against Islam. It is a hatred for the religion itself and those who practice it. The only person with the testicles to say what they really felt was a poster named Grey Tape. He/she did not post on this thread but on the poll Turkish Hijacking. I didn't like what he had to say about Islam, but at least he said it. I hate to be addressed under the guise of tolerance and debate, when in actuality it is something deeper than that.

Like you said bro, I don't lose sleep either, it's just amazing to see the ayats of Quran manifst themselves before my very eyes.