Muhammad's Troubling Marriages to Aisha and Safiyah

[Estro Felino]

Response: Marriage in Islam can occur when one reaches maturity. If a 12 year old is mature, then she can be married. Yet only when she reaches maturity and puberty can a couple began sexual relations, provided that there is consent.

I deeply respect this law. But Muslims won't be able to apply it in my country. Will they accept to wait until the woman in question turns 18? Which is what they are supposed to do

 

[RAYYAN]

I deeply respect this law. But Muslims won't be able to apply it in my country. Will they accept to wait until the woman in question turns 18? Which is what they are supposed to do

of course, any Muslim must accept the law of the country. if it is not accept by them, then they should leave that country

 

[Shad]

I've seen this topic repeatedly..and it's interesting that it comes up as often as it does... We should also probably be aware of the condition of marriage and relations between men and women that obtain in our own countries before setting ourselves up as a judge of people who lived over five centuries ago..

And in the case of Muhammad it's interesting to discuss His first marriage to Khadijih:

Khadijih was a good deal older than Muhammad according to tradition she was forty years of age...and note it was a twenty year marriage ..a monogamous marriage which was rare at the time.. The marriages that occurred later were for several reasons..such as affairs of state,

The age of Aisha as six or eight years is questionable...

(1) The tradition itself was composed well after a century of the supposed event...

(2) There was no standard calendar in use among Muslims until under the caliphate of Omar...People didn't observe birthdays and we don't know for sure how old these people really were.. IF Khadijih was really forty years of age when she married Muhammad and she had three children in the marriage she would be quite unusual..even today with medical science as we have it this would be unusual.

(3) There is a tradition that is often overlooked that has Aisha well past puberty when her marriage supposed to have occurred.. I'll cite it here:


Volume 1, Book 8, Number 465:

Narrated 'Aisha:

(the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents
following Islam since I attained the age of
puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet
visited us, both in the mornings and evenings. My
father Abii Bakr thought of building a mosque in
the courtyard of his house and he did so. He
used to pray and recite the Qur'án in it. The
pagan women and their children used to stand by
him and look at him with surprise. Abu Bakr was
a Softhearted person and could not help weeping
while reciting the Quran. The chiefs of the
Quraish pagans became afraid of that (i.e. that
their children and women might be affected by
the recitation of Quran)."

(Hadith, Bukhari Vol 1)


The above tradition suggests that Aisha had reached the age of puberty while she still lived with her parents before the marriage with the Prophet. Since Muhammad left Mecca in 622 A.D. and all accounts agree that the marriage was not consummated until two years after the hijra, around 624 A.D. Aisha must have been older than supposed.

(4) There is also the prejudiced attitudes toward Muhammad and Islam that have been stirring in the West for centuries..

The Hadith in Arabic does not say puberty at all. Also you have to consider there are 4 ahadith in the same collection which specifically say in Arabic she was 9 at the time of marriage. You either have to ignore the 4 references in the same collection of ahadith or consider these also. 465 also says nothing about age at all, you are speculating. Also the hadith falls within the timeline the marriage contract, 6, in Mecca with migration to Medina along with the actual marriage, 9. This hadith could just be showing that her memory only goes back so far as no parameters are presented beside Mecca as per Bakr's home. Your argument is very weak and undermines the science of Hadith and Islamic tradition. However the reliability of Islamic tradition and history are questionable to say the least in modern scholarship. Unfortunately such a view also undermines some of the core traditions of Islam itself which is only recorded with questionable tradition of centuries later.

 

[RAYYAN]

the only sure thing We know about Aesha is, She was married to the Prophet Mohammed PBUH. there is a hadith of her stating her age was 6/9 but there are more Hadith to contradict that. Some of the things she relates witnessing occured about 10 years before her stated date of birth..This can be understandable as in that era it was not uncommon for people to not know their age also age was often used metaphorically a young age attributed to women to denote purity and old age attributed to men to denote wisdom. While it is true Aisha stated that she was 6 years old when she married Muhammad(saws) and the Marriage was consummated when she was 9,she is the only one reporting that.

In other Sahih Ahadith she also states she was a young girl at the time Surah 54 was revealed. We do know that was 9 years before the Hijjah and the Marriage took place 1-2 years after the Hijjah. She does not state her age only that she was a young girl. We do not know what her age would have been. Since she seems to remember when it was revealed It seems she was not a child under the age of 6 or so. Generally speaking a "Young Girl" at that era would have been between the ages of 7-12
There are other Sahih that indicate she carried Food and Water to the Muhajidun during battles and one of the Battles she did this during occurred just a year or 2 after the marriage. this was a task only adult women were permitted to do.The battle of the Trench (Al-Khandaq), or, of the Clans

While there is an Hadith in which Aisha stated she was 6 when married, there are more in which she indicates being much older

 

[Al-Fatihah]

I deeply respect this law. But Muslims won't be able to apply it in my country. Will they accept to wait until the woman in question turns 18? Which is what they are supposed to do

Response: If the societal norm is to wait until 18, then Islam has no problem doing so.

 

[Shad]

the only sure thing We know about Aesha is, She was married to the Prophet Mohammed PBUH. there is a hadith of her stating her age was 6/9 but there are more Hadith to contradict that. Some of the things she relates witnessing occured about 10 years before her stated date of birth..This can be understandable as in that era it was not uncommon for people to not know their age also age was often used metaphorically a young age attributed to women to denote purity and old age attributed to men to denote wisdom. While it is true Aisha stated that she was 6 years old when she married Muhammad(saws) and the Marriage was consummated when she was 9,she is the only one reporting that.

In other Sahih Ahadith she also states she was a young girl at the time Surah 54 was revealed. We do know that was 9 years before the Hijjah and the Marriage took place 1-2 years after the Hijjah. She does not state her age only that she was a young girl. We do not know what her age would have been. Since she seems to remember when it was revealed It seems she was not a child under the age of 6 or so. Generally speaking a "Young Girl" at that era would have been between the ages of 7-12
There are other Sahih that indicate she carried Food and Water to the Muhajidun during battles and one of the Battles she did this during occurred just a year or 2 after the marriage. this was a task only adult women were permitted to do.The battle of the Trench (Al-Khandaq), or, of the Clans

While there is an Hadith in which Aisha stated she was 6 when married, there are more in which she indicates being much older

None state her age. These ahadith present an argument based on speculation which also contradiction in comparison. Surah 54 has no confirmed date. It ranges from 5 AH to 9 AH. If one were to use the later dates this still falls in line with the far more numerous age 6 and 9 ahadith and provides a correlation . Children were permitted to carry food, water and dug graves during these battles. They were present at the battlefield if not on the battleline themselves. History of the Prophets and Kings Vol 12 page 107 and 127.

 

[Draupadi]

I was actually drawing attention to FOLLOWING AND NOT FOLLOWING THE SOCIAL NORMS, which seems to change according to the circumstances. And please read 'harmless convention'.

 

[morphesium]

Response: Marriage in Islam can occur when one reaches maturity. If a 12 year old is mature, then she can be married. Yet only when she reaches maturity and puberty can a couple began sexual relations, provided that there is consent.

So in this what you are saying - (If) a girl is "matured" even before puberty then/and she can be married.
and only after (may be a few years later ) she reaches maturity and puberty can a couple indulge in sexual relations, provided there is a consent. is that so?
Aisha used to play with dolls even after marriage. So what is maturity?

let's forget about girl kids for the time being. At what age do you think these transitions occur in boys usually - baby, toddler, child, adolescents and man.

 

[morphesium]

Again: both the British and the Italian law condemn pedophiles to jail.
so there is no problem: people will report these marriages and the law will punish the people involved.

No problem? I believe with much money power in their hands, many such activities eventually go unnoticed for law to take action.
Do you think that one day,with Muslims multiplying like rats , will out number non-Muslims in your country? I am afraid it will - because that's the nature of exponential multiplication. I only hope your governments are sensible enough to take actions against this now itself.

And once they outnumber non-muslim counter parts -- it will be terror.
And with the kind of brainwashing and the deep desire to propel humanity back to dark ages - do you think your future generations ( grand children at he most and afterwards) will have a chance to enjoy - equality, justice, and all other goods things that you enjoy now?

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

No problem? I believe with much money power in their hands, many such activities eventually go unnoticed for law to take action.
Do you think that one day,with Muslims multiplying like rats , will out number non-Muslims in your country? I am afraid it will - because that's the nature of exponential multiplication. I only hope your governments are sensible enough to take actions against this now itself.

And once they outnumber non-muslim counter parts -- it will be terror.
And with the kind of brainwashing and the deep desire to propel humanity back to dark ages - do you think your future generations ( grand children at he most and afterwards) will have a chance to enjoy - equality, justice, and all other goods things that you enjoy now?

The words awesome and also is very clear-the
Onlygive youwords ofKuwaitiEmir
He saidyears ago
(We will take thePresidencyofstomachsdaughters)
This is celebrity-.-
Arabs and Muslims in the world today are using money to buy women
And of those women in Europe, a new generation is created
They're as lice on scalp-.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

of course, any Muslim must accept the law of the country. if it is not accept by them, then they should leave that country

Muslims respect the law of the country because it uses the pious
It is todaywill respect thelaw of the country
But when asked in the application number multiplies its
This lessonfrom history
As you mayunderstand

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

The Hadith in Arabic does not say puberty at all. Also you have to consider there are 4 ahadith in the same collection which specifically say in Arabic she was 9 at the time of marriage. You either have to ignore the 4 references in the same collection of ahadith or consider these also. 465 also says nothing about age at all, you are speculating. Also the hadith falls within the timeline the marriage contract, 6, in Mecca with migration to Medina along with the actual marriage, 9. This hadith could just be showing that her memory only goes back so far as no parameters are presented beside Mecca as per Bakr's home. Your argument is very weak and undermines the science of Hadith and Islamic tradition. However the reliability of Islamic tradition and history are questionable to say the least in modern scholarship. Unfortunately such a view also undermines some of the core traditions of Islam itself which is only recorded with questionable tradition of centuries later.

This means that Aisha was digging trenches and heals the wounded
Whatthis justification
MohammedmarriedAishaevenwith hersex
Sexdeprivedof ithimselfwhen he waswithKhadija
Mohammedwasa mentally ill
Studyingtheories ofpsychology
Knowndescriptions ofthe condition
You arementally illfollowinga prophet
Sexual inhibition syndrome
When had the force allowed the lust
Beyondborders
This is the truth

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

I deeply respect this law. But Muslims won't be able to apply it in my country. Will they accept to wait until the woman in question turns 18? Which is what they are supposed to do

Do you know what doMuslims inEurope
This is one of the stories I heard from my friend
European laws do not allow polygamy
Muslim divorce his wife legally
But his wife remains legally
With her sex and also blessed with kids
And also marry a European gets even hansih country
Is legally married in one but in two
Muslims follow this method in your country for breeding

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

When it comes to marrying a child the Prophet accepted the norm. Cool. But when it came to giving the status of son to his adopted son Zaid, a harmless convention prevalent still today throughout the world he backs off. The reason I get from the Quran is that Zaid was not his biological son. So? Zaid loved Muhammad to death. He even refused to go with his father when he came to take his son back after hearing he was freed. He was among the first to accept Islam. Where did he go wrong?

Zaid's wife was beautiful when seen from the tent door held his heart out
This left Zaid
Do you believe in this human shahwani
Any messagetohumanity
Is thisapersonalmorality

 

[Estro Felino]

No problem? I believe with much money power in their hands, many such activities eventually go unnoticed for law to take action.
Do you think that one day,with Muslims multiplying like rats , will out number non-Muslims in your country? I am afraid it will - because that's the nature of exponential multiplication. I only hope your governments are sensible enough to take actions against this now itself.

And once they outnumber non-muslim counter parts -- it will be terror.
And with the kind of brainwashing and the deep desire to propel humanity back to dark ages - do you think your future generations ( grand children at he most and afterwards) will have a chance to enjoy - equality, justice, and all other goods things that you enjoy now?

Actually overpopulation is a problem that doesn't involve Muslims only, but all minorities in my countries. Chinese and Muslim people are the most prolific; my country had the lowest birth rate in Europe together with Germany. Immigrants have made the birth rates higher; because, Italians don't make children any more. Immigrants make lots of children.

I think that my government will be forced to impose one-child families.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Response: Marriage in Islam can occur when one reaches maturity. If a 12 year old is mature, then she can be married. Yet only when she reaches maturity and puberty can a couple began sexual relations, provided that there is consent.

Guardian's consent and the consent of the girl is not
The girls at this age are not very
Be married with the consent of the guardian

 

[Al-Fatihah]

So in this what you are saying - (If) a girl is "matured" even before puberty then/and she can be married.
and only after (may be a few years later ) she reaches maturity and puberty can a couple indulge in sexual relations, provided there is a consent. is that so?
Aisha used to play with dolls even after marriage. So what is maturity?

let's forget about girl kids for the time being. At what age do you think these transitions occur in boys usually - baby, toddler, child, adolescents and man.

Response: Maturity is exactly how it is defined, which is to have or show mental and emotional qualities of an adult. There is no definite age of maturity. People mature at different ages.

 

[Draupadi]

Aisha wasn't mentally matured when her marriage to the prophet was consummated. She was still playing with dolls. She didn't even know where she was going before that. In her own words they just washed her face and send her to her husband's house.

 

[Draupadi]

And as for looking after widows I propose the following points-

a) Give them job opportunities, like money for working at home. That's even better than shelter or marriage.

b) Let them marry according to their will without thinking for them. These women were not in the situation to do that.

c) Spread more awareness that widows are just as good as virgin girls, if they are good and pious. In that way more men will step up to marry them.

But it is quite out of my understanding why a man who lead a very humble life and couldn't eat heartily very often took the financial responsibility of so many widows?

 

[morphesium]

Actually overpopulation is a problem that doesn't involve Muslims only, but all minorities in my countries. Chinese and Muslim people are the most prolific; my country had the lowest birth rate in Europe together with Germany. Immigrants have made the birth rates higher; because, Italians don't make children any more. Immigrants make lots of children.

I think that my government will be forced to impose one-child families.

best regards. I hope Italians keep a stable population. Actually, I believe the world itself is over populated and that every country should take such steps. The population growth of Religious sects that are very violent (Islam is one of them) should be checked in all possible ways- they will never let the world to live peacefully. I know this cant be possible with every country, i just hope.