Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Appropriation - say what??

[SomeRandom]

I recall wearing a Salwar Kameez to a festival. Because I am pretty gora (white) I was accused of appropriating my own culture. Racist much?
Me being me I insulted these accusers in Hindi.
Multiculturalism has to appropriate cultures, that's how barriers are crossed. You see it happen even with food.

 

[columbus]

On what other but arbitrary grounds does one make the claim that cultural appropriation must involve such a power dynamic? Would it not be possible for a minority culture to appropriate in a belittling and demeaning fashion some aspect of a dominant culture? Again, on what but arbitrary grounds can one say that is not cultural appropriation too?

There are plenty of instances where cultural appropriation really is nasty. Black people invented modern American music, but were shut out of the industry for decades while white guys got rich. I remember being in Wyoming as a kid. The tourist trap we visited was run by a white guy selling "Indian beadcraft" . All of it had "Made in China" stamped on the back.

But this is completely different. She was celebrating the culture of the dress, not disrespecting it.
Tom

 

[YmirGF]

I recall wearing a Salwar Kameez to a festival. Because I am pretty gora (white) I was accused of appropriating my own culture. Racist much?
Me being me I insulted these accusers in Hindi.
Multiculturalism has to appropriate cultures, that's how barriers are crossed. You see it happen even with food.

I was thinking of food to. Should I begin referring to my endless curry dishes as being Indian inspired Canadian cuisine? It makes it sound like I mix Indian curry with maple syrup and beer.... hmmm.... I might just try that.... mmmmm.

 

[YmirGF]

There are plenty of instances where cultural appropriation really is nasty. Black people invented modern American music, but were shut out of the industry for decades while white guys got rich. I remember being in Wyoming as a kid. The tourist trap we visited was run by a white guy selling "Indian beadcraft" . All of it had "Made in China" stamped on the back.

But this is completely different. She was celebrating the culture of the dress, not disrespecting it.
Tom

I agree that the scenario you mentioned is wrong, but it is simply misrepresentation. It isn't really cultural appropriation. There are just beads fraudulently being represented as something they clearly are not.

 

[Stevicus]

Meanwhile in China, people like it

People in China weigh in on controversy over U.S. teen’s divisive prom dress

I liked this line from the article:

“When we have nothing better to do than tear down a teenager going to her prom you know we’re in America,” one woman wrote on the WITW Facebook page.

It is interesting how a lot of these controversies are uniquely American, while people in other countries look at it and think that we're crazy.

 

[SomeRandom]

I was thinking of food to. Should I begin referring to my endless curry dishes as being Indian inspired Canadian cuisine? It makes it sound like I mix Indian curry with maple syrup and beer.... hmmm.... I might just try that.... mmmmm.

Oh god, Indian cuisine mixed with maple syrup??? You'd either create a masterpiece or a stomachache lol. Although western Indian cuisine already uses sugar, so you might end up creating diabetes in a dish....
Perhaps cultural appropriation is dangerous after all!!

 

[YmirGF]

diabetes in a dish....

*falls off chair laughing while spraying cold coffee in all directions*

 

[tempogain]

Oh god, Indian cuisine mixed with maple syrup???

Indian food uses a lot of palm sugar... I think it would work out pretty well!

 

[Augustus]

Accusations of 'cultural appropriation' are generally a form of self-righteous elitism. Manufacturing offence so one can feel morally superior to others is pretty ridiculous.

I live in Asia, and a foreigner wearing traditional dress or local fashion would offend absolutely nobody. In fact, most people would actually be happy to see it.

People finding stuff they like from other cultures is one of the best ways of bringing people closer together. The popularity of 'black' culture in the West, especially music, has probably done as much as anything to reduce racism from the 60s onwards.

 

[YmirGF]

Accusations of 'cultural appropriation' are generally a form of self-righteous elitism.

I live in Asia, and a foreigner wearing traditional dress or local fashion would offend absolutely nobody. In fact, most people would actually be happy to see it.

People finding stuff they like from other cultures is one of the best ways of bringing people closer together. The popularity of 'black' culture in the West, especially music, has probably done as much as anything to reduce racism from the 60s onwards.

What is annoying is that it is normally done from the sanctimony of a self-imagined moral high ground.

 

[Nakosis]

On the one hand we in "the West" are asked to swallow the idea that all cultures are equally good, that we'll all live together harmoniously, learning from each other and benefitting from each culture's strengths and achievements...

But on the other hand, if you're a white girl, you better not wear a beautiful Chinese dress to prom, how insensitive of you! That's "cultural appropriation"!!

WTF?? (what's the future?)

Teen defends Chinese prom dress that sparked cultural appropriation debate: 'I would wear it again'

I'm culture fluid.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Personally, I see this kind of thinking somewhat dangerous and toxic. Where does it end? Who decides what is what? It's merely opening the door to legitimizing a grievance based victim mentality that should be avoided like the plague.

We shouldn't minimize the suffering of people being actively victimized either. It's really easy to say 'you don't deserve to have these feelings' from on top. The video I mentioned points out a brief deleted scene in Lilo and Stitch which talks about how many Hawaiian natives feel like tourist commodities in their own country after a forced annexation which happened in living memory.

To them seeing a little middle class white person wearing a sexy hula outfit might cause considerable and not unwarranted cringe, becaus they buy a superficial trinket from a usually white owned company and take it off knowing nothing about the poverty caused by American tourism and sales of their culture. Their interest isn't in the culture, the people, but in a twisted superficial aesthetic.

I'm going to Hawaii over the 4th of July ( not for that reason but because my anniversary is on the 2nd ) and there won't be fireworks or celebration except at the resorts because of a lot of unacknowledged bitterness towards the US by Hawaiian natives. This is a real thing and saying it is just victim mentality really downplays what they're experiencing.

Does that mean all cultural appropriation has negative effects? No, of course not. But, to me, saying cultural appropriation can cause no harm is as dangerous as saying all of it is.

 

[Augustus]

What is annoying is that it is normally done from the sanctimony of a self-imagined moral high ground.

It's a modern secular iteration of performative religious puritanism. The desire to be seen as morally and spiritually superior (and the important bit is seen).

 

[YmirGF]

I'm culture fluid.

I'm pancultural.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm still reeling from the word "leaderarchy" given in the video supplied by @ADigitalArtist

I'm not sure how making up inane words helps a given argument. It merely obscures things by masking a banality as something theoretically supposed to be thought provoking. I was laughing too hard to care much more about what the young lady was saying. For me, at least, it utterly destroyed her message.

I'm sorry you thought the word was supposed to be serious. It was a joke.

 

[YmirGF]

I'm sorry you thought the word was supposed to be serious. It was a joke.

She didn't sound like she was joking and used it twice. Does that become obvious later in the video. I hate Disney stuff, so my interest petered out rather rapidly.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm pancultural.

I'm uncouth cultural.

 

[columbus]

I'm sorry you thought the word was supposed to be serious. It was a joke.

Hard to tell these days.
Somebody managed to make "microaggression" a thing.
Tom

 

[ADigitalArtist]

She didn't sound like she was joking and used it twice. Does that become obvious later in the video. I hate Disney stuff, so my interest petered out rather rapidly.

Maybe it's because I've watched a lot of her videos, or because she has a deadpan snark delivery, but I can 100% assure you that word was in jest.

 

[Sunstone]

This is a fascinating discussion, but now I'm going to need to rethink almost everything. I hate you all.