Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Appropriation - say what??

[YmirGF]

This is a fascinating discussion, but now I'm going to need to rethink almost everything. I hate you all.

Just hang an "Under Construction" sign in your brain. It seems to help.

 

[Jumi]

Did any actual, you know, Chinese people have an issue over this dress?

If we're talking about the nationals... From what I know of the Chinese, most likely not.

 

[Nakosis]

I'm pancultural.

That sounds better. Mine makes it sound like something found in a petri dish.

 

[sun rise]

I'll continue cooking Mexican food, praying Persian prayers, watching Japanese shows and Indian movies, making Latvian artwork, reading Chinese books, dreaming French philosophy, playing American games, and listening to Mongolian music.

Amen. My philosophy here is summed up by Peter Paul and Mary's "All Mixed Up"

 

[ADigitalArtist]

This is a fascinating discussion, but now I'm going to need to rethink almost everything. I hate you all.

Here's another:
Cultural appropriation discussions often get boiled down to talking about music and dress or cultures less impacted by colonial conquest being largely okay with these things. (like China)

But that doesn't mean there wasn't cultural appropriation topics they haven't cared about. There's been several occasions where Western museums had artifacts on display which were stolen during raids on archaeological sites or war profiteering. Countries such as China have requested the return of said stolen artifacts and we have occasionally said "but that was so long ago and look at how pretty and educational our exhibits are."
This is also a form of cultural appropriation and it has damaged foreign policy with other nations before.

But we hear about 'that dress though because it makes for a better sensationalist story. Unfortunately stories like this tend to make people want to categorically trivialize the entire discussion of cultural appropriation.

 

[columbus]

Unfortunately stories like this tend to make people want to categorically trivialize the entire discussion of cultural appropriation.

This is a big part of the reason I dislike trivializing the concept.
From the looting of Egypt to the "Elgin" marbles, there are a ton of wrongs that have been done through history.
Including a prom dress in the concept makes the whole thing look trivial.
Tom

 

[YmirGF]

This is a big part of the reason I dislike trivializing the concept.
From the looting of Egypt to the "Elgin" marbles, there are a ton of wrongs that have been done through history.
Including a prom dress in the concept makes the whole thing look trivial.
Tom

I agree, Tom. The weirdest part is that it is the proponents of "cultural appropriation" that are driving the trivialization, for the most part, due to the ever expanding inclusions being added daily. Instead of "cultural appropriation" why don't we just call it what it is, outright theft. Like the British Museum could hang a banner over its doors saying, "Come and enjoy the treasure we have stolen for countries we once conquered! Bring the kids!" My feeling is that obscure mealy mouth buzzwords like this simply cause a disconnect. In many of the greatest examples it is simply theft. Again, why not just call it out for what it is.

 

[David1967]

On the one hand we in "the West" are asked to swallow the idea that all cultures are equally good, that we'll all live together harmoniously, learning from each other and benefitting from each culture's strengths and achievements...

But on the other hand, if you're a white girl, you better not wear a beautiful Chinese dress to prom, how insensitive of you! That's "cultural appropriation"!!

WTF?? (what's the future?)

Teen defends Chinese prom dress that sparked cultural appropriation debate: 'I would wear it again'

I saw that picture. I actually bought a dress like that for my wife.. From a Chinese owned shop. She's not Chinese. Does that make me a racist? AH,,,no. I just thought the dress was pretty. This crap has got outa hand.

 

[suncowiam]

We all want to be equal and then we don't.

Some people are allowed to wear a dress and some people aren't...

Some people are allowed to say the N word and some people aren't...

Some people are allowed to enter some bathrooms and then some people aren't...

IMO, history can easily evoke victimhood. Many whites today are being blamed for the crimes of previous generations. So we place arbitrary rules to magically "fix" it but instead, it becomes discrimination against whites.
We should learn from history but it shouldn't be used to create the same discrimination that it's supposedly is trying to fix.

That girl wasn't trying to offend anyone. She found a dress, thought it was good looking and wore it. Some Asians got offended and cited history on her. Except, they picked and chose the history. That dress was common in other eras that didn't signify anything derogatory. If other Chinese women today, can wear that dress in social events, then I say so can other people regardless of race. This isn't culture mis-appropriation. It's just another form of discrimination disguising itself as victimhood.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I agree, Tom. The weirdest part is that it is the proponents of "cultural appropriation" that are driving the trivialization, for the most part, due to the ever expanding inclusions being added daily. Instead of "cultural appropriation" why don't we just call it what it is, outright theft. Like the British Museum could hang a banner over its doors saying, "Come and enjoy the treasure we have stolen for countries we once conquered! Bring the kids!" My feeling is that obscure mealy mouth buzzwords like this simply cause a disconnect. In many of the greatest examples it is simply theft. Again, why not just call it out for what it is.

Because it's not just theft. Cultural appropriation covers things that are negative, benign and positive. Like most anything, the overemphasis on one part of the concept, and the exaggeration of the deleterious effects in some cases, (or the writing off of deleterious effects in others) is only a very small part of the picture and not representative of the discussion in social studies.

It's just representative of what the internet and media tends to focus on. Re: using social media to define any movement, from feminism to Christianity to Republicans and Democrats, will only yield the most extreme examples that get circulated. Thereby creating reductive view of what those terms represent in a more broad context.

 

[columbus]

In many of the greatest examples it is simply theft. Again, why not just call it out for what it is.

For the same reason that people do this a lot. It gets them attention on the internet.
At the risk of derailing the thread,

I see the same thing going on with the term rape. Including a starlet wannabe who went to a big TV personality to trade sex for a career, and wanted to do up drugs first, in the same category as a woman who was thrown up against the trunk of a car in a parking lot by a guy with a knife is trivializing "rape victim".
It happens a lot these days.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

I wonder.....
It's OK for Mrs Revolt to wear a qipao (Chinese dress designed to inhibit breathing).
But when she wears western clothing, is this a cultural appropriation micro-aggression?
And what if daughter puts blonde highlights in her hair...more of the same?
Are Hawaiian shirts wrong when worn by Hawaiians?
(They originated with kimono cloth imported from Japan.)

The only common thread I can find with the accusation of cultural appropriation
is that it's wrong when white folk do it, but perfectly fine for the better races.
White people...they burn my bacon....they just made an enemy for life!

 

[columbus]

Just hang an "Under Construction" sign in your brain. It seems to help.

I may have to change my sig line.
Tom

 

[Sunstone]

It's just representative of what the internet and media tends to focus on. Re: using social media to define any movement, from feminism to Christianity to Republicans and Democrats, will only yield the most extreme examples that get circulated. Thereby creating reductive view of what those terms represent in a more broad context.

Excellent point.

 

[suncowiam]

Because it's not just theft. Cultural appropriation covers things that are negative, benign and positive. Like most anything, the overemphasis on one part of the concept, and the exaggeration of the deleterious effects in some cases, (or the writing off of deleterious effects in others) is only a very small part of the picture and not representative of the discussion in social studies.

It's just representative of what the internet and media tends to focus on. Re: using social media to define any movement, from feminism to Christianity to Republicans and Democrats, will only yield the most extreme examples that get circulated. Thereby creating reductive view of what those terms represent in a more broad context.

Personally, I wouldn't blame the media. It is up to the individual to ensure validity of the story. To blame the media is to suggest we have little to no responsibility in this whole process of extracting truth or logic.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's just representative of what the internet and media tends to focus on. Re: using social media to define any movement, from feminism to Christianity to Republicans and Democrats, will only yield the most extreme examples that get circulated. Thereby creating reductive view of what those terms represent in a more broad context.

I'm sorry to point it out so harshly, but it's this kind of obsessive
reality based attitude which ruins perfectly good rants.
Try stifling yourself to stop ruining other people's fun.

 

[Sunstone]

That girl wasn't trying to offend anyone. She found a dress, thought it was good looking and wore it.

The New York Times reports an interesting twist on the dress. Originally, a rather baggy version of it was worn in China during the Qiing Dynasty., which ended in 1912. Then, during the 1920s and 30s, Western fashions began seeping into China and the dress was reinvented as the very tight, form fitting dress we think of today. So, perhaps in a sense, the dress is something of a joint East-West invention. Who, then, would be appropriating who?

 

[YmirGF]

Because it's not just theft. Cultural appropriation covers things that are negative, benign and positive. Like most anything, the overemphasis on one part of the concept, and the exaggeration of the deleterious effects in some cases, (or the writing off of deleterious effects in others) is only a very small part of the picture and not representative of the discussion in social studies.

It's just representative of what the internet and media tends to focus on. Re: using social media to define any movement, from feminism to Christianity to Republicans and Democrats, will only yield the most extreme examples that get circulated. Thereby creating reductive view of what those terms represent in a more broad context.

You are getting perilously close to sounding reasonable about this. Have you no shame?

Seriously though, I think you make an important point and this "dumbing down" of the concept(s) is a very real part of the problem. It's not so much a case of the academic articles being overtly problematic, if one can even wade through them due to the often unnecessarily dense verbiage, but rather, how the ideas move downstream and are interpreted by many students and society in general. I think both Intersectionality and gender studies suffer from similar problems in that the excessively complex jargon is so easily misunderstood... and not just by the general public.

 

[suncowiam]

The New York Times reports an interesting twist on the dress. Originally, a rather baggy version of it was worn in China during the Qiing Dynasty., which ended in 1912. Then, during the 1920s and 30s, Western fashions began seeping into China and the dress was reinvented as the very tight, form fitting dress we think of today. So, perhaps in a sense, the dress is something of a joint East-West invention. Who, then, would be appropriating who?

I have no idea. Like I mentioned earlier, it sounds like someone is picking and choosing the history.

IMO, it's just a dress and more specifically, the intent was never to degrade another culture. it's all perspective, because I would have taken honor of her emulating my culture.

 

[Sunstone]

This is a side issue, but in all of this Keziah Daum, the teen who wore the dress, has taken a beating. She has not been merely vilified and demonized on the net, but no less than cyberbullied. Perhaps this is not the moment to mention this but, we - as a society -- are doing this to a kid. She's not even fully an adult yet, legal or otherwise, yet she is subject to this horrendous outrage and vilification directed at her, as if there were no reason -- none at all -- to take her into account and a person. And the thing is, we expect it, we accept it. It makes me wonder, for lack of a better phrase, where has simple decency gone?