Musk threatens to sue the Anti-Defamation League

[rosends]

But the real question is would you try to censor criticism of Twitter (or X)?




Remember, it is Musk suing the ADL because of what they said. He is trying to shut down their free speech.

One of the greatest ironies is that believing in being tolerant requires that one is tolerant of intolerance. That's a toughie in this world.

 

[Ella S.]

They used to, according to the graphic you provided (this represents ADL contributions by political affiliation over time). It's natural that Democratic voters would oppose defamation more than Republican voters. They're different kinds of people with different worldviews, values, and agendas.

What else does this graph tell us about why this has changed? Just look at the years to understand that. On the far left is immediately pre-Trump, and on the right is end-Trump. The bigots have been given permission, remember? "You will not replace us," they threaten.

View attachment 81822

Is there a Jewish Defamation League? If so, that's where post-MAGA "Righties" will predominate, and the graphs will likely look like these, but with the colors reversed. Rightists promote assorted bigotries.

Really? I guess that makes me arrogant. I interpret everybody's words and deeds. Why shouldn't I?

Woah.

I am not entirely sure how to respond to that chart. Do you have a source for it? If it is accurate, then... wow. I mean, I knew things were bad, but I was hoping they seemed worse than they are.

I have watched right-wing family members go from being tolerant and ignorant to hateful and misinformed since 2016. I have seen quite a few anecdotes about this. I just came out of a thread @Snow White started on trans people that a ton of bigots hijacked to fill with vitriolic garbage. That was the straw to break the camel's back for me regarding online debate.

If debate isn't working, activism is only really a sign of solidarity for those who already agree, and violence only escalates the problem, what exactly are we left with? Do we simply sit back and watch everyone slowly lose their minds?

I understand the misanthropy of the classical Cynic philosophers more and more by the day. Maybe I should find a barrel to move to, like Diogenes. I am starting to miss the eremetic life at this rate.

 

[anna.]

Actually, Bill Donohue, founder of The Catholic League, regularly serves as a spokesperson against "Catholicphobia" (as you called it) here in the United States. I first became familiar with Bill Donohue when he campaigned some years ago against Penn and Teller (a duo magician act here in the U.S., and outspoken atheists).

I think that Penn and Teller are equally opposed to all religious involvement in our U.S. government, and are not seeking the destruction of the Catholic people, themselves.

I was going to bring up The Catholic League, but you beat me to it.

 

[anna.]

I just want to know something: have they openly accused him of being an anti-Semite?
Yes or no.

No. And you've been told this, repeatedly.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

There are those who think hate speech should be protected as free speech, and those who think it should not be protected as free speech...

Musk is one who thinks hate speech should be protected as free speech, and is allowing the use of hate speech without moderation--moderation that did occur under the prior ownership, but no longer does.

The ADL and others think that hate speech should not be protected a free speech, and have called Musk out for allowing it to reign unchecked on his social media platform.

Because of their criticism of his allowing hate speech on his platform, he is threatening to sue them...

And just as a by-the-way, who cares what Ben Shapiro has to say, on anything?

 

[Estro Felino]

I wouldn't know if Musk is a genius or not, but it is pretty darn conclusive that he is a brilliant businessman.

Musk is a self-made man. Indeed.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I am not entirely sure how to respond to that chart. Do you have a source for it? If it is accurate, then... wow. I mean, I knew things were bad, but I was hoping they seemed worse than they are.

I can't vouch for the chart. It comes from the link in the post I was responding to. From post #9 Anti-Defamation League Profile: Totals

If debate isn't working, activism is only really a sign of solidarity for those who already agree, and violence only escalates the problem, what exactly are we left with? Do we simply sit back and watch everyone slowly lose their minds?

As for me, I do my part here, which could be called activism, but there's no action, just words. I'm hoping to change minds, but not those on the alt-right. Those people are gone, locked in by a faith-based belief in the Republican party's stated goals, and unreachable - just like creationists, climate deniers, vaccine deniers, and election integrity deniers. They're gone in my estimation, and I don't expend energy there. My words including those addressed to those I just said can't be reached are written for those that are not convinced but are amenable to reasoned, evidenced argument, which is probably only the younger posters present here, and also to like-minded people who need no convincing but might benefit from a different approach to presenting this argument, and by that I mean not only message, but demeanor. I prefer stronger, more assertive language, and would encourage others to consider doing the same to the extent that it resonates with them and is comfortable for them.

Apart from that, we just keep plugging and hope that humanistic influences prevail over these hateful, authoritarian alternatives.

I have watched right-wing family members go from being tolerant and ignorant to hateful and misinformed since 2016. I have seen quite a few anecdotes about this. I just came out of a thread @Snow White started on trans people that a ton of bigots hijacked to fill with vitriolic garbage. That was the straw to break the camel's back for me regarding online debate.

I'm not surprised. We watched half the country becoming more intolerant over those years. What isn't either wokeness or tyranny to them? These are the people that say that they want to own libs, relish drinking liberal tears, and say "**** you feelings" to them. They're the ones throwing mask tantrums in shops and on airplanes, and demanding to see the manager while demeaning employees. They're the ones filming (or worse) black people walking their dogs, using their pools, or trying to get into their buildings or apartments.

And if this isn't jaw-dropping and mind-numbing to beat the band, Trump is polling even with Biden right now. What else do you need to know about these people except that they are a threat to democracy, an impediment to egalitarianism, support theocratic changes, and want criminals exonerated and/or elected to public office. I look at Marjorie Taylor Green and the "Freedom Caucus" and see a scene from Gremlins:

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Woah.

I am not entirely sure how to respond to that chart. Do you have a source for it? If it is accurate, then... wow. I mean, I knew things were bad, but I was hoping they seemed worse than they are.

I have watched right-wing family members go from being tolerant and ignorant to hateful and misinformed since 2016. I have seen quite a few anecdotes about this. I just came out of a thread @Snow White started on trans people that a ton of bigots hijacked to fill with vitriolic garbage. That was the straw to break the camel's back for me regarding online debate.

If debate isn't working, activism is only really a sign of solidarity for those who already agree, and violence only escalates the problem, what exactly are we left with? Do we simply sit back and watch everyone slowly lose their minds?

I understand the misanthropy of the classical Cynic philosophers more and more by the day. Maybe I should find a barrel to move to, like Diogenes. I am starting to miss the eremetic life at this rate.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience.

I wanted to say that sometimes, debate threads I make are extremely difficult subject matters and difficult subjects to tackle, so though I don't really want to say it because it might give the wrong impressions - a few of my debate threads are a matter of endurance, even if I have a certain optimism that logic and critical thinking will in the long run, prevail.

So while some of my threads are really quite positive and cheerful, I sometimes tackle the difficult subjects too.

 

[Ella S.]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience.

I wanted to say that sometimes, debate threads I make are extremely difficult subject matters and difficult subjects to tackle, so though I don't really want to say it because it might give the wrong impressions - a few of my debate threads are a matter of endurance, even if I have a certain optimism that logic and critical thinking will in the long run, prevail.

So while some of my threads are really quite positive and cheerful, I sometimes tackle the difficult subjects too.

You're fine. I'm not upset over it. These days, I mostly feel a sense of emptiness that drowns everything else out. Even when I do have feelings, I have to exaggerate them in order to express them so that I don't come across as a Vulcan, but I am finding myself putting less effort into that, too, these days.

I do have an austere and garrulous style that can apparently come across as ranting, condescending, frustrated, angry, callous, arrogant, and so on, but I think it would be more accurate if people read the majority of my posts in a bored monotone. Tone is hard to read over text and, even when I put special effort into trying to express my tone clearly through my writing style, it doesn't always work.

By a "straw that broke the camel's back," I mean that it was what finally made me realize that I'm not really being productive with most of my attempts to tackle online misinformation. The people who need the help the most are the ones who aren't willing to listen and the people who are willing to listen, by and large, have better avenues for educating themselves. My role is almost superfluous.

Almost. I understand why people with spare free time would choose to debate, anyway, because you and @It Aint Necessarily So are right. It can be marginally helpful and those little changes can grow into larger ones. I'm going to take some time to try to think about how to make change on larger scales, though, hopefully in a way that requires less personal interaction and more math.

 

[anna.]

Meanwhile, in Florida...

Labor Day weekend neo-Nazi demonstrations near Disney, Altamonte Springs prompt outrage​

Members of neo-Nazi groups, flaunting swastikas and other hate symbols and shouting antisemitic slogans, marched near Disney Springs and at a park in Altamonte Springs over Labor Day weekend, drawing widespread condemnation.

Meanwhile, police in New Smryna Beach said Tuesday they’re investigating the distribution of antisemitic flyers in a residential neighborhood on Monday night.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

Meanwhile, in Florida...

Labor Day weekend neo-Nazi demonstrations near Disney, Altamonte Springs prompt outrage​

Members of neo-Nazi groups, flaunting swastikas and other hate symbols and shouting antisemitic slogans, marched near Disney Springs and at a park in Altamonte Springs over Labor Day weekend, drawing widespread condemnation.

Meanwhile, police in New Smryna Beach said Tuesday they’re investigating the distribution of antisemitic flyers in a residential neighborhood on Monday night.

Much as I miss my parents and many members of the older generation of my family, I'm grateful that they are no longer alive to have seen this happening in America today. This absolutely breaks my heart.

I pray that there will be a reckoning for those responsible for unleashing this level of hatred and madness. A reckoning for those who have effectively given "permission" and validation to monsters like these.

 

[anna.]

Much as I miss my parents and many members of the older generation of my family, I'm grateful that they are no longer alive to have seen this happening in America today. This absolutely breaks my heart.

I pray that there will be a reckoning for those responsible for unleashing this level of hatred and madness. A reckoning for those who have effectively given "permission" and validation to monsters like these.

I'm grateful for that for you, Rachel.

It's on Americans to stand against it.