Muslim Brotherhood Statement Denouncing UN Women Declaration for Violating Sharia Principles

[sojourner]

I think this is a bit of a stretch. Most men I've personally known have healthy relationships with their wives, and it doesn't seem that they force them to do anything against their will.

Sure, they may be many coercive, controlling, and abusive men in certain societies, but many definitely aren't that way, so I don't think they should be labeled as such just because of others' mistakes.

I wasn't aware that I was labeling anyone other than those who treat women as chattal.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Seems reasonable to me,whats the problem?,from the "The Freedom and Justice Party",my Dad was right,"you can't tell a book by its cover Son".

The 57th session of the UN Commission on the Status of Women (CSW), taking place from March 4 to 15 at UN headquarters, seeks to ratify a declaration euphemistically entitled ‘End Violence against Women’.


That title, however, is misleading and deceptive. The document includes articles that contradict established principles of Islam, undermine Islamic ethics and destroy the family, the basic building block of society, according to the Egyptian Constitution.


This declaration, if ratified, would lead to complete disintegration of society, and would certainly be the final step in the intellectual and cultural invasion of Muslim countries, eliminating the moral specificity that helps preserve cohesion of Islamic societies.


A closer look at these articles reveals what decadence awaits our world, if we sign this document:


1. Granting girls full sexual freedom, as well as the freedom to decide their own gender and the gender of their partners (ie, choose to have normal or homo- sexual relationships), while raising the age of marriage.


2. Providing contraceptives for adolescent girls and training them to use those, while legalizing abortion to get rid of unwanted pregnancies, in the name of sexual and reproductive rights.


3. Granting equal rights to adulterous wives and illegitimate sons resulting from adulterous relationships.


4. Granting equal rights to homosexuals, and providing protection and respect for prostitutes.


5. Giving wives full rights to file legal complaints against husbands accusing them of rape or sexual harassment, obliging competent authorities to deal husbands punishments similar to those prescribed for raping or sexually harassing a stranger.

6. Equal inheritance (between men and women).


7. Replacing guardianship with partnership, and full sharing of roles within the family between men and women such as: spending, child care and home chores.


8. Full equality in marriage legislation such as: allowing Muslim women to marry non-Muslim men, and abolition of polygamy, dowry, men taking charge of family spending, etc.


9. Removing the authority of divorce from husbands and placing it in the hands of judges, and sharing all property after divorce.

10. Cancelling the need for a husband’s consent in matters like: travel, work, or use of contraception.


These are destructive tools meant to undermine the family as an important institution; they would subvert the entire society, and drag it to pre-Islamic ignorance.


The Muslim Brotherhood urges the leaders of Muslim countries and their UN representatives to reject and condemn this document, and to call upon this organization to rise to the high morals and principles of family relations prescribed by Islam.


The Muslim Brotherhood also calls on Al-Azhar (the highest seat of learning for Muslims) to take the lead, condemn this declaration, and state clearly the Islamic viewpoint with regard to all details of this document.


Further, we urge all Islamic groups and associations to take a decisive stand on this document and similar declarations.
In conclusion, we call on women's organizations to commit to their religion and morals of their communities and the foundations of good social life and not be deceived with misleading calls to decadent modernization and paths of subversive immorality.


God Almighty says: "God wants to forgive you, but those who follow whims and desires want you to deviate far away from the Path). {Quran 4 : 27}
The Muslim Brotherhood
Cairo: March 13, 2013

Remember that THIS statement by the Muslim Brotherhood is what we are debating, if I may.

I mean, let's for the sake of argument talk about point #5:

Giving wives full rights to file legal complaints against husbands accusing them of rape or sexual harassment, obliging competent authorities to deal husbands punishments similar to those prescribed for raping or sexually harassing a stranger.

People have a problem with this? I'd love to hear the justification for why giving wives full protection from and full recourse with abusive husbands who have harmed them or who have committed rape is considered a BAD thing.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

The only ones I can potentially consider to be an over reach are:
#2 with abortion - highly contentious (though I support it)
#3 with TRUE adulteries (not rape victims and some woman who merely spoke to a man) and children thereof. Paternity tests factor into inheritance issues for example in many modern societies for good reason as do claims of infidelity alter potential outcomes of divorce for example.
#6 ignores the idea that there is such a thing as dowry and/or dower for example, these are pertinent reasons for a functional differentiation from the western concept.
#8 abolishes consensual polygamy (for what reason?); it also ignores the fact that bride price, dowry and dower exist for (but is probably not nearly as often used used for) good reason

Many of them would become incredibly problematic if done retrospectively as well, for example if #8 is retrospectively applied, a HUGE number of marriages suddenly are no longer existant.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I wasn't aware that I was labeling anyone other than those who treat women as chattal.

Phrases like "in those places" seemed too broad, especially since it was supposedly referring to a whole country rather than just some people.

I apologize if I've misunderstood your intention with that post, though.

Remember that THIS statement by the Muslim Brotherhood is what we are debating, if I may.

I mean, let's for the sake of argument talk about point #5:



People have a problem with this? I'd love to hear the justification for why giving wives full protection from and full recourse with abusive husbands who have harmed them or who have committed rape is considered a BAD thing.

I think it may be due to an incorrect understanding of what giving women such a right entails, since the way the objection is worded appears to suggest that they believe the husband would automatically be charged with rape or sexual harassment once such a complaint is filed against him.

Of course, that objection would be unfounded because there would ideally be a lot of investigation in such case, and I don't know what the Muslim Brotherhood were thinking when they included that part in their list of objections against the document either.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think it may be due to an incorrect understanding of what giving women such a right entails, since the way the objection is worded appears to suggest that they believe the husband would automatically be charged with rape or sexual harassment once such a complaint is filed against him.

Of course, that objection would be unfounded because there would ideally be a lot of investigation in such case, and I don't know what the Muslim Brotherhood were thinking when they included that part in their list of objections against the document either.

There is also #6 I see nothing to be objectionable regardless of wording and interpretation, 10 is something NO ONE should have a problem with. 9 could be a very great thing for many women throughout the world if it actually happens. Some of them, like 7, I will agree the wording may arouse alarm, as it could be considered that men and women must fully and completely share all tasks and responsibilities, which could be interpreted to mean extreme erosion of gender roles, and the one abortion I understand why they oppose it, but some of them, such as 3 and 4, are about basic human dignity that no one should be denied.

 

[FearGod]

i have to point out that Islam when forbids prostitution then that is for the benifit of humanity as no one agree that prostitution is good for humanity by any means.

But no one said that the prostitute should be stoned and killed but what is said that prostitution it self as a bad thing to be ended.

One example to prove that Islam treats the prostitutes similar to any human is one authenticated hadith about one prostitute that saved one dog from death that god forgave her sins,so who said they aren't treated as humans.






Hadith - Bukhari 4:538, Narrated Abu Huraira

Allah's Apostle PBUH said, "A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that."​

Of course i don't agree that the prostitute should be killed but should be guided and to be free from men who used women for entertainment.​

About point #5​

Giving wives full rights to file legal complaints against husbands accusing them of rape or sexual harassment, obliging competent authorities to deal husbands punishments similar to those prescribed for raping or sexually harassing a stranger. ​

Of course her husband shouldn't be treated similar to the rapist and only she have her right to ask for divorce and that will be given to her.​

The rapist forces a woman to sex that she had never did a chummy sexual relationship with him before,​

The prophet PBUH asked men to treat woman with love and the last thing to be done is sex,then who said that women should be raped by the husband.​

(Wasa'il, vol. 14, p. 40) Sex without foreplay has been equated to cruelty. The Prophet said, "Three people are cruel: . ..a person who has sex with his wife before foreplay.'' (Wasa'il, vol. 14, p. 40) Another hadith equates sex without foreplay to animal behavior: "When anyone of you has sex with his wife, then he should not go to them like birds; instead he should be slow and delaying." (Wasa'il, vol. 14, p. 82) The Prophet said, "No one among you should have sex with his wife like animals; rather there should be a messenger between them." When asked about the messenger, he said, "It means kissing and talking." (Tahzibu'l-Ihya, vol. 3, p. 110)​

Reference: Chapter Three: The Islamic Sexual Morality (2) Its Structure

Islam adviced men to speak with words of love with their wives and to have a foreplay then the last thing thing is sex and should be delayed as much as possible.

The prophet PBUH compared man who do sex to his wife without a foreplay to an animal behaviour.

 

[Riverwolf]

i have to point out that Islam when forbids prostitution then that is for the benifit of humanity as no one agree that prostitution is good for humanity by any means.

But no one said that the prostitute should be stoned and killed but what is said that prostitution it self as a bad thing to be ended.

One example to prove that Islam treats the prostitutes similar to any human is one authenticated hadith about one prostitute that saved one dog from death that god forgave her sins,so who said they aren't treated as humans.

Then you agree with the UA's statement about prostitution.

Hadith - Bukhari 4:538, Narrated Abu Huraira

Allah's Apostle PBUH said, "A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that."

Of course i don't agree that the prostitute should be killed but should be guided and to be free from men who used women for entertainment.​

That's fine. What if it's 100% their own choice?
​

About point #5

​

Giving wives full rights to file legal complaints against husbands accusing them of rape or sexual harassment, obliging competent authorities to deal husbands punishments similar to those prescribed for raping or sexually harassing a stranger. ​

Of course her husband shouldn't be treated similar to the rapist and only she have her right to ask for divorce and that will be given to her.​

The rapist forces a woman to sex that she had never did a chummy sexual relationship with him before,​

Wait, are you saying Muslim men will NEVER rape their wives?

'Cause, sorry, that's a load of cadswallop.
​

The prophet PBUH asked men to treat woman with love and the last thing to be done is sex,then who said that women should be raped by the husband.

​

(Wasa'il, vol. 14, p. 40) Sex without foreplay has been equated to cruelty. The Prophet said, "Three people are cruel: . ..a person who has sex with his wife before foreplay.'' (Wasa'il, vol. 14, p. 40) Another hadith equates sex without foreplay to animal behavior: "When anyone of you has sex with his wife, then he should not go to them like birds; instead he should be slow and delaying." (Wasa'il, vol. 14, p. 82) The Prophet said, "No one among you should have sex with his wife like animals; rather there should be a messenger between them." When asked about the messenger, he said, "It means kissing and talking." (Tahzibu'l-Ihya, vol. 3, p. 110)​

Reference: Chapter Three: The Islamic Sexual Morality (2) Its Structure

Islam adviced men to speak with words of love with their wives and to have a foreplay then the last thing thing is sex and should be delayed as much as possible.

The prophet PBUH compared man who do sex to his wife without a foreplay to an animal behaviour.

With respect, that was his own idea if it's not Qur'anic. Do Muslims consider every single word Mohammad says to be absolutely infallible?

 

[WyattDerp]

That's fine. What if it's 100% their own choice?

What if someone drinks bleach out of their own volition? Does that make drinking bleach good?

You might argue that prostitution is a healthy thing (good luck with that), but not on the basis of people making choices. People "choose" to get addicted to heroin, too. Doesn't mean a thing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You might argue that prostitution is a healthy thing (good luck with that), but not on the basis of people making choices. People "choose" to get addicted to heroin, too. Doesn't mean a thing.

Heroin abuse leads to addiction, but if someone wants to have sex and decides to charge for it because they are going to do it anyways I don't see a problem with that. Sex is legal, selling is legal, so why is there any problem with selling sex?

 

[WyattDerp]

if someone wants to have sex and decides to charge for it because they are going to do it anyways

That's not how prostitution works. People who like sex simply have sex. One doesn't get paid for having sex with people one wants to have sex with anyway.

You cannot sell everything; simply because as soon as you sell some things, their nature changes. You cannot sell sympathy, or friendship, or the sex people enjoy having.

 

[Riverwolf]

What if someone drinks bleach out of their own volition? Does that make drinking bleach good?

You might argue that prostitution is a healthy thing (good luck with that), but not on the basis of people making choices. People "choose" to get addicted to heroin, too. Doesn't mean a thing.

I never said prostitution is good; quite the contrary, in fact, I said earlier in this thread that it's a very unadvised lifestyle.

 

[Riverwolf]

That's not how prostitution works. People who like sex simply have sex. One doesn't get paid for having sex with people one wants to have sex with anyway.

How do you know that?

 

[WyattDerp]

How do you know that?

Having a brain, and having had sex before ^^

 

[WyattDerp]

I never said prostitution is good; quite the contrary, in fact, I said earlier in this thread that it's a very unadvised lifestyle.

Okay then, to answer the question: I support the right of people to make bad decisions. Of course prostitutes should be respected. But even better:

Entrepreneurship Program Gives Former Prostitutes a Fresh Start - Businessweek

“There were so many little things that made such a difference,” says Jane. “You’d come home at the end of the day, and you’d be so proud of yourself.”

 

[Riverwolf]

Having a brain,

As do I. What's your point?

Haven't you ever seen Dark Knight?

"If you're good at something, never do it for free."

and having had sex before ^^

And how would that contribute to this knowledge?

 

[Riverwolf]

Okay then, to answer the question: I support the right of people to make bad decisions. Of course prostitutes should be respected. But even better:

Entrepreneurship Program Gives Former Prostitutes a Fresh Start - Businessweek

Good for them.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't equate regulated prostitution to drug addiction, since it's relatively safe.

Still unadvised, but relatively safe. More like extreme sports at that point.

 

[WyattDerp]

Nevertheless, I wouldn't equate regulated prostitution to drug addiction, since it's relatively safe.

Did I do that? Read again. I was making a point about reasoning. The same would apply for flossing: just because most people don't do it, doesn't mean flossing is bad. I'm not equating anything.

 

[Riverwolf]

Did I do that? Read again. I was making a point about reasoning. The same would apply for flossing: just because most people don't do it, doesn't mean flossing is bad. I'm not equating anything.

I tend to apply different reasoning to different situations, not generalizations.

 

[WyattDerp]

Haven't you ever seen Dark Knight?

"If you're good at something, never do it for free."

And how would that contribute to this knowledge?

Certainly a bunch more than TDK, wtf.

You know, intimacy? The sheer thrill of being attracted and attractive? Sensuality? To these things payment is like a wet fart, and if you don't know that I have no idea how to explain it to you.

 

[WyattDerp]

I tend to apply different reasoning to different situations, not generalizations.

*woosh*

That "voluntary choice" is a.) an empty concept, since no choices occur in a vacuum (kids don't drink bleach knowing what it does, but it's still a "free choice") and b.) doesn't make what is choosen good or bad per se, can be shown with any number of examples. Don't blame me for not seeing the forest of that for all the trees.