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Muslims attack Taslima Nasrin

robtex

Veteran Member
"Dozens of Muslim protesters led by three lawmakers attacked an exiled Bangladeshi writer at the release of her book in southern India on Thursday, calling her “anti-Islam,” and telling her to go back to her country. About 100 people burst into the Press Club in Hyderabad, shouting insults at Taslima Nasrin and ransacking the place, throwing chairs in the air and overturning tables. "




MSBC MSN reports:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20204125/





Taslima, a secular humanists, has a history of being targeted for violence for stating that the Islamic religion is oppressive of women. In this article on the council for secular humanism website she talks about her views on Islam and the Islamic reaction to it:



http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/nasrin_19_1.html




the humanist.net qoutes her as saying:




I said that Shariat law should be revised. I want a modern, civilized law, where women are given equal rights. I want no religious law that discriminates, none, period-no Hindu law, no Christian law, no Islamic Law. Why should a man be entitled to have four wives? "Why should a son get two-thirds of his parents' property when a daughter can inherit only a third? Should I be killed for saying this? ...



http://humanists.net/nasrin/harvard lecture.htm



Here is the link to her website:

http://taslimanasrin.com/index2.html




thoughts? comments?








 

Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
Thing is also is that she said "no Hindu law, no Christian law, no Islamic Law", it wasn't just Islam she was talking about, is was any religion, she just said those three in the quote you gave. Nothing against my Muslim brothers and sister, but people can get crazy. Did any other group get mad at her?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
One does have to wonder... now... were these ordinary Muslims, radical Muslims or extremist Muslims? I wonder if those attacking understood that this merely underscores (rather boldly) that there is a problem here. When people are not permitted to say what they think because it offends the sensibilities of others then things have gone to Hell in a handbasket. Again, I wonder if these Muslim "holy rollers" grasp this? Why do I keep thinking, "There is no compulsion in religion!" It would appear that these distinctly insecure individuals are not willing to leave things in the hands of Allah and feel that they must act to silence this lone infidel. Tell me, just how insecure can people get? Events like this leave me breathless and I highly doubt that "Allah" is much impressed by their childish antics... nor should we be.
 

robtex

Veteran Member
Is anyone surprised?

I think some people may be more in denial than surprised if they don't condone this type of behavior and are Muslims. I think that is the heart of the situation. You have some Muslims who feel the she should be killed and others who pretend this isn't happening, which I see as silently condoning the death threats, and than still others Muslims who sit on a high horse and think that the threating Muslims are "real Muslims" but what you don't have are Muslims who say this is wrong and go to her defense to attempt to stifle the death threating Muslims in any way. In this way I think ALL MUSLIMS are silently condoning these actions until such time that they dissent through action irregardless if they mentally feel it is just or not.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Why do I keep thinking, "There is no compulsion in religion!" It would appear that these distinctly insecure individuals are not willing to leave things in the hands of Allah and feel that they must act to silence this lone infidel. Tell me, just how insecure can people get? Events like this leave me breathless and I highly doubt that "Allah" is much impressed by their childish antics... nor should we be.

I am not sure that it is insecurity; I think that these people have whipped themselves up into a self induced state of belief that theirs is the only way, and that they have a duty force everyone else to understand that, and to abide by it.

I don't think our western minds can fully grasp the strength of feeling that these people have.

I highly doubt that "Allah" is much impressed by their childish antics

I am not so sure; sure, they are misguided, but (I certainly hope), they are genuinely misguided - and therefore innocent of evil intent; they are just plain "misguided".
 

MaddLlama

Obstructor of justice
I am not sure that it is insecurity; I think that these people have whipped themselves up into a self induced state of belief that theirs is the only way, and that they have a duty force everyone else to understand that, and to abide by it.

I don't think our western minds can fully grasp the strength of feeling that these people have.

I have to disagree with you there. I see the same attitude here in the US with the Christian fundamentalist groups (of all stripes). I don't really think there is a difference.
 

robtex

Veteran Member
One does have to wonder... now... were these ordinary Muslims, radical Muslims or extremist Muslims? .

Paul what you can do, and it could be time consuming--just fair warning, is read up on sharia law and its applications in government, read the hadiths that apply to women in Muslim societies and read about Islamic theocracies as applied in Bangladesh, Iran, Sandia Arabia, and Pakistan and how those laws affect women and than re-ask that question.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
... what you don't have are Muslims who say this is wrong and go to her defense to attempt to stifle the death threating Muslims in any way.
A more serious problem is that people like you would make such a statement. It took me all of about ten seconds to find ...
Muslim leaders condemn attack on Taslima Nasrin

New Delhi, Aug. 10 (PTI): Muslim leaders and intellectuals today strongly condemned the attack on controversial Bangladeshi author Taslima Nasrin terming the incident as "shameful" and "barbaric".

"The incident was outrageous and shameful. In a civilised society, you have a right to approve or disapprove of anything," noted lyricist and author Javed Akhtar said.

"Fundamentalists are getting bolder and bolder as they can get away with almost anything. That is the problem," Akhtar said. [source]​
It is noteworthy that you didn't take those ten seconds ...
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
"Fundamentalists are getting bolder and bolder as they can get away with almost anything. That is the problem," Akhtar said.

It is indeed; when will the apathetic majority rise to challenge those who misrepresent religion?
 

robtex

Veteran Member
A more serious problem is that people like you would make such a statement. It took me all of about ten seconds to find ...

It is noteworthy that you didn't take those ten seconds ...


I did look and I didn't find anything. Incidentally that is a Hindu newspaper that verbally admonishes their actions in a few short paragraphs. I mean it is something but not what I would call "enough". However I don't see anything about the three lawyers being disbarred or legal actions taken against those committing the assault.

Maybe you could take 10 more seconds and find something more than a short blurb in a Muslim paper? Like maybe a Muslim circulation? And it would be good if one could be found....I would like to see that !
 

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
What burns me up is this, that muslims all of us, have to be put on the chopping block every single time one of us or a small group of us do somethin foul. I'm sick of that. I am down for my muslim brothers and sisters through whatever, and am not afraid to say when they are wrong for something. You will find me the first (if you knew me personally) among us to try and rectify silly actions when I can. But I refuse to have to apologise, gravel, and beg forgiveness from the general public everytime a muslim does something stupid. These people are grown, and responsible for their own actions. They are responsible for behaving and carrying themsleves in a dignified manner, so as not to bring shame or misrepresentation to themselves or Islam. When they don't do that, it is not them who suffer in the eyes of the media and general public, it's the muslims who had nothing to do with it, nor even knew about it.

There are muslim groups, watchdog if you will, that fight daily to spread the kind of education about Islam that will hopefully end these types of outbursts, but that takes a long time. We can't just travel the world and collar up every muslim, jack 'em up in the corner, give a few nutshots, and make 'em behave. That's not how that works. Everytime a muslim do something, the rest of us have to make an official statement. I'll agree to that when other groups have to do the same. When a black person do something, black groups don't have to make a public statement, and when any other person belonging to any other group religious or not do something wrong, the rest of the members of that group aren't on the chopping block, only muslims. Muslims aren't the only people in the world causeing any trouble.

We muslims have a responsibility to each other to be each others keepers yes, but this does not mean we have an all-encompassing knowledge of what we are all doing at any given time. Could be that some people do not know of this incident. This is the first I have heard of it, and I am accustomed to reading the daily international headlines. Perhaps other muslim groups do not yet know of this incident and have yet to comment. Maybe they aren't wasting time commenting on it, and are busy doing other things that would actually help stop it from happening again.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
thoughts? comments?

Hi there dear rob, :)

I think this is an interesting incident, but its not the first one nor it will be the last case ever. You might ask me, why is that?

The answer is not simple, but i'll try my best to explain for you what i'm thinking of.

Let us start with a basic human need. Imagine yourself in a very poor country, starving to death, and you know well that once you see any food around, you will jump without hesitation to take it even if you used force to achieve that, just to spare yourself, and live. Do you really think that you will ever care who is calling people to adopt a certain belief and law over another, or do you care what happen to other people's feelings and no body cares about you?

Why should you--as a poor uneducated man--support any, of course other than those who are willing to feed you?

Do you remember the situation in WWI and WWII and how europe was so fastly jumping on the throat of each other, killing each other, hating each other?

At that moment, who would really care what happen to a poor african child in Africa?

I'm not talking in here about individuals but about ordinary people. No one cares, and no one should. Nevertheless, when Europe started to have peace amongst themselves, they started to think, why can't we make other nations peaceful too?

In the West, you don't really *experince* in your daily life what those people do experience. I'm not looking for excuses but i'm trying to tell you that you can't understand why those people do that if you are not one of them, or at least, if you didn't listen to them and live with them. I'm talking about the same high horses you mentioned in one of your posts describing some muslims, because the same can be said about many people in the west who don't know what is the meaning of hunger, suffering, being humiliated, etc.

I was going through some very old arabic books from the time of Al-Andalus "Spain currently" and i didn't believe what i read. Jews, Christians and muslim scholar were sitting together to discuss and maybe to invent things, and they all live in happiness because the place where they live was full of "justice", and i won't say love because if someone can't apply "justice" then there is no point in "love", because love is much higher than justice.

I read one of the links you posted about Taslima and observe how did she answer this question:

FI: When and why did you become a secular humanist?
Nasrin: When I was young, I was forced to practice religion. I had to read the Koran in Arabic without knowing the meaning. I said to my mother several times: "I don't have any interest in reading something I don't understand. I want to know the meaning of the verses." My mother said, "We don't need to know the meaning. We should read because these are the verses written by God. If you read these, God will forgive you and send you to heaven."

When I was 14 or 15 years old, I found the Bengali translation of the Koran, and I learned what God says in the verses. I was surprised to read wrong information about the solar system in the Koran - for example, that the sun is moving around the earth and the earth is not moving but standing still because of the support of the mountains.

The inequalities and injustices against women and the people of different faiths in the Koran made me angry. If any religion allows the persecution of the people of different faiths, if any religion keeps women in slavery and keeps people in ignorance, then I cannot accept that religion. As an individual, I wanted to serve people irrespective of religion, race, and gender. And instead of having irrational blind faith, I preferred to have a rational logical mind. In short, I became a secular humanist. To me humanity is the ultimate.

Once i read this i knew what was the problem, her parents didn't educate her about Islam as the school did about any other type of knowledge. She was smart enough to question this blind belief, but her mom didn't help her to understand her faith, maybe because of the lack of knowledge, then alone, she went through the text and read it, and i feel sorry that she misunderstood many concepts in the Quran, and she built her disbelief in Islam on some misconceptions about Islam which i invite anyone to go through them if they are interested.

When she started building her case, instead of answering her questions, people attacked her, and the more they attack her, the more the west apperciate her, and the more she think that she is right all the way.

As to those who attacked her, but why not from other religions too, is for the fact that she was a muslim and all of what she used to cretecise is just pure islamic teachings "which she misunderstood", and she reached to the conclusion based on that, that all religions and their laws must be abolished.

As to what Muslims should do, you have to go back and see my pervious analogy to understand that if someone is not satisfied and can't get his basic human rights, so he will not care about others.

As to scholars, all what they have to do is to advice the public, but the public will only pick someone who agree with them in their emotional state.

My points are not organized but this is just my first impression and thoughts and i would go deeper if someone directed me to a specific direction or question.


Thanks in advance. :)
 

maro

muslimah
When they don't do that, it is not them who suffer in the eyes of the media and general public, it's the muslims who had nothing to do with it, nor even knew about it.

.
from the OP i understood that somone who lives among muslims in an islamic society insulted islam and the shariah ,
so muslims protested and insulted her back ,

do the links contain anything more than that ?

A question for my muslim brothers and sisters, what exactly do i need to condemn ?

i hope you tell me, because after condemning the killing of the muslim children in Iraq , palestine ,Afghanestan, al sudan , al sheshan......... ,i will condemn it right away :yes:
 

robtex

Veteran Member
Hakimah, As opposed to graveling or begging forgiveness, what if you and your mosque, looked-up the email address of Taslima and sent her a kind email? What if your mosque sent an official letter of protest to the lawyers involved, wrote the press club in Hyperabad showing support for their efforts and wrote the Bangladeshian paraliament /and or judiciary committee asking for curbing of such acts and investigation of criminal acts? What if a dozen plus mosques did this? What if mosques in the west supported review of Sharia law in the country of Bangladesh and vocalized this? While you are a Muslim you are also a woman. Surely the treatment of women under sharia law is an issue of concern of yours in some countries. You are quite a unique position to address it being a Muslim. Taslima mentions it and men throw chairs at her and threaten her life. surely you must see this as a problem in your faith? Even if it isn't your mosque.

In regards to your last paragraph, what efforts are the Muslim community doing overall to curb violence by practitioners of their faith? I ask as an open ended question and think it would/could make a really educational thread on RF.
 

robtex

Veteran Member
Hi there dear rob, :)

I think this is an interesting incident, but its not the first one nor it will be the last case ever. You might ask me, why is that?

The answer is not simple, but i'll try my best to explain for you what i'm thinking of.

Funny timing on that post. Just last week a Muslim friend of mine from Lebanon articulated the same idea when we were discussing the clash at the Red Mosque in Pakistan. I agree with your assessment that the factor of local economics is valuable in assessing the situation. I honestly don't know much about the export/import gnp/gdp of Bangladesh (though I have a Bangladeshian friend I can ask likely later today) and I do realize this impacts perceptions of the world around them.

I feel frustration though, at the idea that Sharai law, which I strongly disagree with in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and a few others can't even be questioned or challenged verbally without death threats and violence. I think the practice of Sharai laws that make men and women unequal is one of the greatest travesties to your faith.
 

Smoke

Done here.
But I refuse to have to apologise, gravel, and beg forgiveness from the general public everytime a muslim does something stupid.
Of course. For one thing, if you reacted like that every time a group of Muslims did something violent in the name of Islam, you'd never get anything else done.

As to what Muslims should do, you have to go back and see my pervious analogy to understand that if someone is not satisfied and can't get his basic human rights, so he will not care about others.
Are you suggesting that the three lawmakers who led the attack don't have their basic human rights?

from the OP i understood that somone who lives among muslims in an islamic society insulted islam and the shariah
Andhra Pradesh is a predominantly Hindu state.

so muslims protested and insulted her back
And slapped her, tore the Press Club apart, and ransacked the place. In March, a Muslim group offered 500,000 rupees to anyone who beheads her.

A question for my muslim brothers and sisters, what exactly do i need to condemn ?
Indeed.
 

robtex

Veteran Member
Of course. For one thing, if you reacted like that every time a group of Muslims did something violent in the name of Islam, you'd never get anything else done.

Are you suggesting that the three lawmakers who led the attack don't have their basic human rights?

Andhra Pradesh is a predominantly Hindu state.

And slapped her, tore the Press Club apart, and ransacked the place. In March, a Muslim group offered 500,000 rupees to anyone who beheads her.

Indeed.

sources for 550k rupess offer:
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...tinent_March677.xml&section=subcontinent&col=
http://nation.ittefaq.com/artman/exec/view.cgi/63/34759/printer

Now think about this, of your Muslim women? Do you think many of them feel abused, hurt scared, used by men of their society but feel fear to stand up and say this is wrong? Do you not feel for their safety, their well being? In your faith are they not also children of Allah? Due the same rights and privileges as the men? If not why not? And if so doesn't this information hurt to read about?

Do you know much about how women are treated in Turkey? If not read up on Turkish culture. Night and day. Women enjoy many more rights in the Sunni dominated Turkey. Same religion. Same Koran, different treatment. Why ?

March 8th is woman's day in Bangladesh. To support women's rights in that country:
http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/cross-cutting_programs/wid/snapshot/ane/bangladesh/bang_womensday.html
Maybe some Islamic support in the USA and UK could be a strong statement for this?

Maybe making a mosque donation to Bangladesh national women's lawyers association could help make change?
http://www.bnwla.org/


footnotes tangent to post:
http://www.peacewomen.org/news/International/July05/Bangladesh.html
http://www.asiasource.org/arts/alam/intro.html
http://www.jim-mullins.com/Bangladesh.html
 

robtex

Veteran Member
.


A question for my muslim brothers and sisters, what exactly do i need to condemn ?

Two questions about that statment?

1) do you value the opinions of non-mulims in regards to Sharai law?

2) You are woman. Don't you want women to have the same rights as men In Bangladesh and other Islamic countries?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I feel frustration though, at the idea that Sharai law, which I strongly disagree with in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and a few others can't even be questioned or challenged verbally without death threats and violence. I think the practice of Sharai laws that make men and women unequal is one of the greatest travesties to your faith.

Men and women are equal, but they are not identical. Please provide some laws which you don't like about how Islam treat women. Also, you have to ask yourself why the muslim sisters in RF don't see this injustice you are talking about. It will really be interesting because those muslim sisters just got to know each other only in RF and some of them are either in the Middle East or America,etc, so it would be a fair assessment.

Instead of listening to people whom you don't know in the newspaper, why don't you listen to those muslim women in RF whom you got to know since quite long time in here?

Do you think me and the other men are fooling them?

Do you think they are not educated enough?

Do you think they are blind believers?

Do you think they are not honest?

Please be open and answer these questions for me if you don't mind.
 
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