Muslims attack Taslima Nasrin

[TashaN]

Are you suggesting that the three lawmakers who led the attack don't have their basic human rights?

Yep. If someone don't know human rights and can't feel justice, then he will never be able to save other people's rights.

There is a very famous saying in arabic states that "along the lines":

"The one who lack something, can't give it to others".

If they can't experince real human rights applied to them, so they will never be able to *understand* it.

If people in other parts of the world have been taught and experinced that the only valuable human beings are Americans/Europeans and their *real* allies, and the others are just a second level human beings, then what you really ask for is ridiculous.

 

[Sahar]

Hakimah, As opposed to graveling or begging forgiveness, what if you and your mosque, looked-up the email address of Taslima and sent her a kind email? What if your mosque sent an official letter of protest to the lawyers involved, wrote the press club in Hyperabad showing support for their efforts and wrote the Bangladeshian paraliament /and or judiciary committee asking for curbing of such acts and investigation of criminal acts? What if a dozen plus mosques did this? What if mosques in the west supported review of Sharia law in the country of Bangladesh and vocalized this? While you are a Muslim you are also a woman. Surely the treatment of women under sharia law is an issue of concern of yours in some countries. You are quite a unique position to address it being a Muslim. Taslima mentions it and men throw chairs at her and threaten her life. surely you must see this as a problem in your faith? Even if it isn't your mosque.

Sure, a kind e-mail thanking her for her great courage in spotting the light on oppression and injustice of my religion towards me. Well, as a Muslim woman, i would be very grateful if you let me know where those countries that implement Islamic Shari'ah are so that i could be the first to move there.

 

[Sahar]

sources for 550k rupess offer:
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...tinent_March677.xml&section=subcontinent&col=
http://nation.ittefaq.com/artman/exec/view.cgi/63/34759/printer

Now think about this, of your Muslim women? Do you think many of them feel abused, hurt scared, used by men of their society but feel fear to stand up and say this is wrong? Do you not feel for their safety, their well being? In your faith are they not also children of Allah? Due the same rights and privileges as the men? If not why not? And if so doesn't this information hurt to read about?

Do you know much about how women are treated in Turkey? If not read up on Turkish culture. Night and day. Women enjoy many more rights in the Sunni dominated Turkey. Same religion. Same Koran, different treatment. Why ?

March 8th is woman's day in Bangladesh. To support women's rights in that country:
http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/cross-cutting_programs/wid/snapshot/ane/bangladesh/bang_womensday.html
Maybe some Islamic support in the USA and UK could be a strong statement for this?

Maybe making a mosque donation to Bangladesh national women's lawyers association could help make change?
http://www.bnwla.org/


footnotes tangent to post:
http://www.peacewomen.org/news/International/July05/Bangladesh.html
http://www.asiasource.org/arts/alam/intro.html
http://www.jim-mullins.com/Bangladesh.html

No one would disagree with this, no one can say that many women are not oppressed in many Muslim societies but it's not just Muslim societies, it happens every where. Women are human beings and should be treated according to this just like men. But the problem comes when you associate women's oppression with Islam. Also, the problem that in such countries, neither women nor men enjoy their human rights. Maybe women's case is worse but all members of the society suffer, no good shelter, no good food, no good education, no good health, no freedom..etc. In a society like this, people are mad, angry..can't think in a healthy way. Children will face abuse and women will face oppression. I wish for all women to enjoy their full rights in all aspects of life and i wish if i can help and every one has a role (different from the other) in making a change, from every one's position, we can move. But this oppression has nothing to do with Islam.

 

[Sahar]

Do you know much about how women are treated in Turkey? If not read up on Turkish culture. Night and day. Women enjoy many more rights in the Sunni dominated Turkey. Same religion. Same Koran, different treatment. Why ?

Have they respected women's rights and let them wear their hijab in their jobs, schools and universities?!

 

[Smoke]

Yep. If someone don't know human rights and can't feel justice, then he will never be able to save other people's rights.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Afsar Khan, Ahmed Pasha and Mozum Khan are Members of the Legislative Assembly. What, exactly, makes you think they don't have their basic human rights?[/FONT]

 

[MaddLlama]

If people in other parts of the world have been taught and experinced that the only valuable human beings are Americans/Europeans and their *real* allies, and the others are just a second level human beings, then what you really ask for is ridiculous.

I don't quite understand.....are they teaching that Americans are the only "real" human beings in Muslim countries? Somehow, I have a very hard time believing that.

 

[Smoke]

No one would disagree with this, no one can say that many women are not oppressed in many Muslim societies but it's not just Muslim societies, it happens every where.

In what non-Muslim societies are women forced to cover themselves from head to toe? In what non-Muslim societies can women who are raped expect to be murdered by their own fathers and brothers?

 

[Sahar]

In what non-Muslim societies are women forced to cover themselves from head to toe?

Habibi, oppression of women is not by forcing them to cover themselves only! For example, forcing them to reveal themselves is oppression too, or what do you think? Or maybe what your trying to say that there is no oppression of women except between Muslims, right?

 

[Smoke]

Or maybe what your trying to say that there is no oppression of women except between Muslims, right?

Nope. I am saying that the countries in which oppression of women is the worst are Muslim countries.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

In america and other countres women can expect to be raped, attacked, beaten by their husbands, and the rest of it. Or do you deny that this can happen in countries not dominated by muslims? Forcing women to wear a praticular type of dress, or honor killings are not the only forms of injustice towards women that exist. Neither is it the fact that only muslims opppress women. Alot of men oppress their wives and children and it has nothing to do with religions.

 

[Smoke]

In america and other countres women can expect to be raped, attacked, beaten by their husbands, and the rest of it. Or do you deny that this can happen in countries not dominated by muslims? Forcing women to wear a praticular type of dress, or honor killings are not the only forms of injustice towards women that exist. Neither is it the fact that only muslims opppress women. Alot of men oppress their wives and children and it has nothing to do with religions.

Yep. But the countries in which women are the most oppressed are all Muslim countries.

 

[TashaN]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Afsar Khan, Ahmed Pasha and Mozum Khan are Members of the Legislative Assembly. What, exactly, makes you think they don't have their basic human rights?[/FONT]

I don't know those people and i was talking in general. Give me any link which refer to those people and their role in this case please.

I don't quite understand.....are they teaching that Americans are the only "real" human beings in Muslim countries? Somehow, I have a very hard time believing that.

Nope. America is teaching everyone that, not the Muslim countries.

Nope. I am saying that the countries in which oppression of women is the worst are Muslim countries.

Because America is protecting the puppet leaders of these countries and fully support them to make dictator/secular countries, and if they gave the chance for those who *PRACTICE* Islam to be part of the government nothing of all this would happen. There is no country in the world nowadays which take Islamic shariah as the sole law in the government. If there is any oppersion so its because they are not practicing Islam but the preislamic cultural rituals, yes, if they practice Islam as what Prophet Mohammed taught, none of this would happen. You just have to read the history to know that the first human being ever who stood for women and made them free of opression was Prophet Mohammed "peace be upon him". Read the history of your own people, women especially at the time Prophet Mohammed made women free in Arabia and all the other lands which CHOSE to be part of this sacred freedom movement.

Prophet Mohammed was also the first person who said there is no difference between a master and a slave. That's why so many people who were origianlly slaves became leaders of the entire islamic land and no one thought it was wrong, unlike what happened in your own land of origin.

 

[Smoke]

I don't know those people and i was talking in general. Give me any link which refer to those people and their role in this case please.

• Andhra MLAs, 20 MIM activists manhandle Taslima Nasreen
• MIM activists rough up novelist Taslima Nasreen
• MIM activists attack novelist Taslima in Hyderabad
  

Because America is protecting the puppet leaders of these countries and fully support them to make dictator/secular countries, and if they gave the chance for those who *PRACTICE* Islam to be part of the government nothing of all this would happen. There is no country in the world nowadays which take Islamic shariah as the sole law in the government. If there is any oppersion so its because they are not practicing Islam but the preislamic cultural rituals, yes, if they practice Islam as what Prophet Mohammed taught, none of this would happen.

How is it that Muslims had 1300 years between the Hijra and America's involvement in international politics, and yet all the barbarity of Muslim countries is America's fault?

Sorry, but there has never been a Muslim society that was not repressive. No matter how you try to blame America and secularism, the problem is still the violence of the Muslims themselves.

Read the history of your own people, women especially at the time Prophet Mohammed made women free in Arabia and all the other lands which CHOSE to be part of this sacred freedom movement.

If Muhammad made them free, why aren't they free now?

At the time of Muhammad, the women among my Irish ancestors had suffered setbacks in rights and status due to the introduction of Christianity, but they were still better off than Muslim women are today.

 

[TashaN]

• Andhra MLAs, 20 MIM activists manhandle Taslima Nasreen
• MIM activists rough up novelist Taslima Nasreen
• MIM activists attack novelist Taslima in Hyderabad

I'll have to be honest with you, i don't know those people you mentioned and i'm not interested to know and my statement will stand because i'm talking about the community as a whole.

How is it that Muslims had 1300 years between the Hijra and America's involvement in international politics, and yet all the barbarity of Muslim countries is America's fault?

Wow, are you saying that since Prophet Mohammed till america appeared women have been opressed in Muslim lands in contrast to other countries?

That was really a very bold statement that you will not be able to back up.

Sorry, but there has never been a Muslim society that was not repressive.

Nonesense.

If Muhammad made them free, why aren't they free now?

Because some people chose not to listen to his teachings but to their cultutral rituals which Prophet Mohammed used to warn them from.

At the time of Muhammad, the women among my Irish ancestors had suffered setbacks in rights and status due to the introduction of Christianity, but they were still better off than Muslim women are today.

lol, just right and status, you are wording it so poorly. It's called abuse and violence against women in Europe before the Muslims came to enlighten them and take them out of their misery and their dark ages. Period.

Allow me to refresh your memory.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,26578,00.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chastity_belt

 

[robtex]

Men and women are equal, but they are not identical. Please provide some laws which you don't like about how Islam treat women. Also, you have to ask yourself why the muslim sisters in RF don't see this injustice you are talking about. It will really be interesting because those muslim sisters just got to know each other only in RF and some of them are either in the Middle East or America,etc, so it would be a fair assessment.

.

. Many of the links I put in this thread before this post talk about the treatment of women in Bangladesh.

but to address this quoted part:

chastity laws, adultery laws, female circumcision laws, female property laws body dismemberment laws for thievery, laws forbidding atheism in Islamic theocracies, blasphemy laws, laws forbidding homosexuality women dress code to start with:
http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr150.html

In this article the american thinker talks about how normal it is for men to hit women in their lives, how people who steal are dismembered, death by stoning for adultry, and a list of others:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/08/top_ten_reasons_why_sharia_is.html

beheading laws:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/25/world/main626196.shtml

the 20 examples of sharia laws here:
http://www.freemuslims.org/document.php?id=41

the murder of Bahai's in Iran under Islamic law for believing in the wrong God sticks out.
http://info.bahai.org/article-1-8-3-16.html
http://www.bahai.us/bahai-history

the thread I made on Nazanin a while back deals heavily with sharia law
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39810&highlight=nazanin

If you want to read an eye-opening book for Sharia law in Saudi Arabia I would recommend "Princess : by Jean Sasson though I won't use it as a reference here due to other debaters inability to reference it.

really though sharia laws together are hard to debate. However if any wish to defend the validity of any one particular law mentioned here please feel free to start a thread on it and I will be there in that thread with you with my thoughts on it.

further footnotes:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/article/0,6512,777972,00.html
http://www.ilga.info/Information/Legal_survey/middle east/supporting files/sharia_law.htm

 

[robtex]

Sure, a kind e-mail thanking her for her great courage in spotting the light on oppression and injustice of my religion towards me. Well, as a Muslim woman, i would be very grateful if you let me know where those countries that implement Islamic Shari'ah are so that i could be the first to move there.

any of the Islamic theocracies in the middle east and Africa. By this entry should I assume the actions Taslima Nasrin are justified in your eyes? And the rest of the muslims on here ? Do you feel the actions and the bounty on her head are justified? Is this how you feel non-believers who don't want to live under Islamic law, and whom choose to write about it should be treated? What kind of message do you think that sends to the non-Islamic world?

 

[TashaN]

. Many of the links I put in this thread before this post talk about the treatment of women in Bangladesh.

but to address this quoted part:

chastity laws, adultery laws, female circumcision laws, female property laws body dismemberment laws for thievery, laws forbidding atheism in Islamic theocracies, blasphemy laws, laws forbidding homosexuality women dress code to start with:
http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr150.html

In this article the american thinker talks about how normal it is for men to hit women in their lives, how people who steal are dismembered, death by stoning for adultry, and a list of others:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/08/top_ten_reasons_why_sharia_is.html

beheading laws:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/25/world/main626196.shtml

the 20 examples of sharia laws here:
http://www.freemuslims.org/document.php?id=41

the murder of Bahai's in Iran under Islamic law for believing in the wrong God sticks out.
http://info.bahai.org/article-1-8-3-16.html
http://www.bahai.us/bahai-history

the thread I made on Nazanin a while back deals heavily with sharia law
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39810&highlight=nazanin

If you want to read an eye-opening book for Sharia law in Saudi Arabia I would recommend "Princess : by Jean Sasson though I won't use it as a reference here due to other debaters inability to reference it.

really though sharia laws together are hard to debate. However if any wish to defend the validity of any one particular law mentioned here please feel free to start a thread on it and I will be there in that thread with you with my thoughts on it.

further footnotes:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/article/0,6512,777972,00.html
http://www.ilga.info/Information/Legal_survey/middle east/supporting files/sharia_law.htm

Before i go thought the links, we are talking about two different mentalities in here. You believe that death penalty for instance is wrong, and i believe otherwise.

If some laws like death penalty for the one who kill people is fair enough for me and for those who practice Islam so you can't tell them to stop doing it because you THINK it's wrong.

 

[Smoke]

I'll have to be honest with you, i don't know those people you mentioned and i'm not interested to know and my statement will stand because i'm talking about the community as a whole.

In other words, you don't know the facts, but you're sure you're right.

Wow, are you saying that since Prophet Mohammed till america appeared women have been opressed in Muslim lands in contrast to other countries?

Other countries have oppressed women, too. But today, after nearly 1400 years of Islam, the most repressive countries are Muslim countries.

Allow me to refresh your memory.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,26578,00.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chastity_belt

Yeah, Christianity has a very bad record with women's rights, too. But the Christians have at least made some progress over the last few centuries.

lol, just right and status, you are wording it so poorly. It's called abuse and violence against women in Europe before the Muslims came to enlighten them and take them out of their misery and their dark ages. Period.

Yes, it's wonderful how Islam brings enlightenment and lifts women out of their misery. If only European and American women today could live the happy, carefree lives of women in the Muslim world:

​

 

[robtex]

Before i go thought the links, we are talking about two different mentalities in here. You believe that death penalty for instance is wrong, and i believe otherwise.

If some laws like death penalty for the one who kill people is fair enough for me and for those who practice Islam so you can't tell them to stop doing it because you THINK it's wrong.

actually each sharia law would have to be isolated and debated one at a time. doing it this way isn't gonna get anyone anywhere.

but in the flavor of this thread was the acts against T Nasrin justified, is the price on her head justified and if not why not, if so why?

 

[Booko]

I have to disagree with you there. I see the same attitude here in the US with the Christian fundamentalist groups (of all stripes). I don't really think there is a difference.

No, there is one salient difference, and it has been the saving grace for many who desire to escape oppression, and that is our time-honoured tradition of the separation of church and state, which has done much to prevent religious demagogues from demanding the gov't impose their idea of religious law on the rest of us.

Separation of church and state is a truly foreign notion in some cultures. Sometimes it's downright incomprehensible.