Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Draka]

Yes, I think we all see the difference. But in the name of humanity I don't accept the difference. I don't like it that you still feel its perfectly fine to beat your wife for whatever reason you feel is appropriate, and I urge you never to do it again for any reason. Please have a really good look at the pain in her eyes the next time (God forbid) you do it.

Luckily he is not married yet. At least as I recall him saying he has never been married. So far, that is a good thing. Perhaps there will be some chance that his stance and view on the subject may be changed before any marriage takes place. One can only hope.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, we shared a laugh. I've been laughing and smiling at several things both you and KT have said.

I'm betting Godobeyer doesn't think very much of me already, but here's just more to add to the pile. Most of my friends in my life have been men. My best friend for a couple years while I lived in California was a man. He'd crash at my place on my sofa many weekends. We'd go out to do karaoke at bars sometimes. We hung out together on the flightline at work (helicopter squadron). We were best friends. Never anything romantic or sexual between us. It IS possible. No matter what Godobeyer may think, a man and a woman can be friends and share smiles and laughter.

Yesterday my daughter, wife, and I went for lunch with a former student of mine (female) that I contacted for a bit of career counseling for my daughter. She is 30 years my junior but about 30 years my senior in women. I think men who don't see women as human are missing out on half the world's population and 3 fourths of its wisdom. It's sad.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes, we shared a laugh. I've been laughing and smiling at several things both you and KT have said.

I'm betting Godobeyer doesn't think very much of me already, but here's just more to add to the pile. Most of my friends in my life have been men. My best friend for a couple years while I lived in California was a man. He'd crash at my place on my sofa many weekends. We'd go out to do karaoke at bars sometimes. We hung out together on the flightline at work (helicopter squadron). We were best friends. Never anything romantic or sexual between us. It IS possible. No matter what Godobeyer may think, a man and a woman can be friends and share smiles and laughter.

I suppose it's kind of hard for this kind of scenario to take place in a setting where wives are essentially viewed similarly to a goat or pig.

 

[Vinayaka]

I suppose it's kind of hard for this kind of scenario to take place in a setting where wives are essentially viewed similarly to a goat or pig.

You've never laughed with pigs?

 

[Enlighten]

for me if i found my wife talking and smiling with some one forgien , i will slap her ,because if not i will be cuckold , would you too ?

Godobeyer, can you please clarify something? Would you go through all steps before you slapped her as Bismillah has repeatidly posted the instruction as to how a man should "deal" with his woman? It sounds to me like you have a different understanding so I just want to be clear.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You've never laughed with pigs?

Of course I have, but I haven't done karaoke with one.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

A question for all the enlightened Westerners on this thread who are so sure that they are correct. If Islamic culture allows for the physical discipline of women by their husbands, fathers and/or brothers, and you are so sure that it is morally wrong and cowardly to boot, should we force them to stop? Should their culture be allowed to define abuse how ever they like? Is allowing them to create a definition that you find abhorrent the same as condoning that definition and by default the action itself? Aren't we taught that all cultures have a right to exist and flourish on the Earth without being influenced by our scandalous Western ways? Where is the line drawn? When does an action performed by another society deserve a response from the rest of the world? When is that response justified as force?

 

[Bismillah]

Godobeyer, can you please clarify something? Would you go through all steps before you slapped her as Bismillah has repeatidly posted the instruction as to how a man should "deal" with his woman? It sounds to me like you have a different understanding so I just want to be clear.

No he is not, I read his reply. If you see a women talking to a man and you slap her what you just did is haraam regardless of interpretation that is unanimous.

 

[Godobeyer]

Yes, we shared a laugh. I've been laughing and smiling at several things both you and KT have said.

I'm betting Godobeyer doesn't think very much of me already, but here's just more to add to the pile. Most of my friends in my life have been men. My best friend for a couple years while I lived in California was a man. He'd crash at my place on my sofa many weekends. We'd go out to do karaoke at bars sometimes. We hung out together on the flightline at work (helicopter squadron). We were best friends. Never anything romantic or sexual between us. It IS possible. No matter what Godobeyer may think, a man and a woman can be friends and share smiles and laughter.

yeah ..... the fire never set the gaze .
you drink and dance and maybe you sleep in same home !!!!!!
look sister to be honest , if he never addict to you , there is something wrong , in him or in you .

 

[Kilgore Trout]

A question for all the enlightened Westerners on this thread who are so sure that they are correct. If Islamic culture allows for the physical discipline of women by their husbands, fathers and/or brothers, and you are so sure that it is morally wrong and cowardly to boot, should we force them to stop? Should their culture be allowed to define abuse how ever they like? Is allowing them to create a definition that you find abhorrent the same as condoning that definition and by default the action itself? Aren't we taught that all cultures have a right to exist and flourish on the Earth without being influenced by our scandalous Western ways? Where is the line drawn? When does an action performed by another society deserve a response from the rest of the world? When is that response justified as force?

You can't force people to be decent and civil.

 

[Enlighten]

A question for all the enlightened Westerners on this thread who are so sure that they are correct. If Islamic culture allows for the physical discipline of women by their husbands, fathers and/or brothers, and you are so sure that it is morally wrong and cowardly to boot, should we force them to stop? Should their culture be allowed to define abuse how ever they like? Is allowing them to create a definition that you find abhorrent the same as condoning that definition and by default the action itself? Aren't we taught that all cultures have a right to exist and flourish on the Earth without being influenced by our scandalous Western ways? Where is the line drawn? When does an action performed by another society deserve a response from the rest of the world? When is that response justified as force?

Partially the reason for my last post to be honest, whilst I don't agree with what I understood in the end from Bismillah at least I had an understanding and text to try to understand it with. It sounds to me like Godobeyer has a totally different understanding of what Bismillah explained, so decided to ask the question.

Edit: To be clear, I understood the "slap" was symbolic and the use of a handkerchief or toothbrush was used instead of a physical slap by many. The part I didn't agree with was I still saw it as a sign of humiliation but that is not part of my culture/religion so it may not be seen in such a way within that culture.

 

[Godobeyer]

Godobeyer, can you please clarify something? Would you go through all steps before you slapped her as Bismillah has repeatidly posted the instruction as to how a man should "deal" with his woman? It sounds to me like you have a different understanding so I just want to be clear.

no it's just my enligh and his english are different hhhhhhhh
I told you the stepped before slap an insubordonite wife many times in my early posts.

 

[Godobeyer]

if i am different with Bismillah , let him know me .

 

[Songbird]

Someone say karaoke? :guitar1:

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Someone say karaoke? :guitar1:

Sorry, I can't answer, I wouldn't want to cuckold your husband by responding to you.

 

[Enlighten]

No he is not, I read his reply. If you see a women talking to a man and you slap her what you just did is haraam regardless of interpretation that is unanimous.

Ok I'm lost again then :cover:. I understood from speaking to you before that there were certain steps that would be taken:

I want to point out that many commentators view the beating as symbolic. The use of a toothbrush or a folded handkerchief thrown at a women is hardly the same as a beating which Merriam-Webster defines as As I said in my earlier post this action is one of emotional expression rather than a physical attack " Firstly, it is important to realize that the traditional view of "lightly hitting" a spouse is viewed as a symbolic action. It is not used as something of physical harm but rather of emotional nature. The nature of the action speaks for itself rather than implying that physical abuse is a prerequisite for it to be effective. Secondly, the Qur'an mandates that spouses must first leave each others' bed meaning that such an action is done after reflection over the conflict limiting powerful and fleeting emotions such as anger or haste pushing a husband to physically harm his wife. Thus what we have is a cultural expression of extreme discontent and anger over a particular issue, but not a mandate for domestic abuse."

I understood from our conversations, not just this one that certain things had to happen before the "slap" or as you say "The use of a toothbrush or a folded handkerchief thrown at a women" that it can also be. What is it that I am missing, it's clearly something obvious as I genuinely thought I understood? The text I hightlighted above was something I understood had to happen first?

 

[Songbird]

Sorry, I can't answer, I wouldn't want to cuckold your husband by responding to you.

Sorry, you want to what my husband?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Sorry, you want to what my husband?

Stop, or I will be forced to throw my toothbrush at you.

 

[Godobeyer]

You can't force people to be decent and civil.

edited :and otherwise I can't convince you that when you let your wife discussion with her " friends by the name of trust and freedom " ,it's cuckold action at my view , because i will never do that , and it's called cuckold here who do that .

we are maybe in huge different about treating wifes :
we are wrong in your view in treating the subordinate wives .
and we see you so wrong in your treating your wives .

 

[Bismillah]

Ok I'm lost again then :cover:. I understood from speaking to you before that there were certain steps that would be taken:

There are, you may have misunderstood me. He cannot see his wife talking to another man for example and slap her because of that. There are steps to be taken haraam means impermissible.