Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Enlighten]

no it's just my enligh and his english are different hhhhhhhh
I told you the stepped before slap an insubordonite wife many times in my early posts.

Ok I obviously missed that or did not understand, so your first action would not be to slap?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

and otherwise I can't convince you that when you let your wife discussion with her friends by the name of trust and freedom is cuckold action at my view , because i will never do that , and it's called cuckold here who do that .

Right, you can't convince me to be an insecure, jealous little coward. We can agree on that.

 

[Enlighten]

There are, you may have misunderstood me. He cannot see his wife talking to another man for example and slap her because of that. There are steps to be taken haraam means impermissible.

Even if it was innocent chat, I talk to a lot of men, I work with many and socialise with many? To let me understand, what are the haraam steps?

 

[Songbird]

Stop, or I will be forced to throw my toothbrush at you.

It's mine now. Sucka.

 

[Vinayaka]

What does cuckold mean? Usually I can figure out accented or ESL, but I can't get this one.

 

[Bismillah]

Even if it was innocent chat, I talk to a lot of men, I work with many and socialise with many? To let me understand, what are the haraam steps?

Sorry I think we are having a communication block right now.

The steps I outlined are the definitive steps that must be taken even if someone is to hit their wife.

I said it was haraam to hit a women, just because one sees her talking to a man (I don't understand why this is a problem) out of anger.

There are no haraam steps.

 

[Godobeyer]

There are, you may have misunderstood me. He cannot see his wife talking to another man for example and slap her because of that. There are steps to be taken haraam means impermissible.

yeah brother , it's the highway to cheating and adultry , the discussion with woman and man should in conditions

1- for reason education or information and in serieus (not joking or smilling ...etc )
2- they need to wear Hijab . to hide her beauty , to avoid to addict the man .

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It's mine now. Sucka.

Consider yourself punished.

 

[Enlighten]

Sorry I think we are having a communication block right now.

The steps I outlined are the definitive steps that must be taken even if someone is to hit their wife.

I said it was haraam to hit a women, just because one sees her talking to a man (I don't understand why this is a problem) out of anger.

There are no haraam steps.

Ok we are definitely having a block, I completely misunderstood. So even if a man saw his wife speaking to another man, he must take the steps before resorting to the slap/handkerchief/toothbrush etc? I don't understand why it is an issue either, from your knowledge would a woman seek repercussions if she saw her man speaking to another woman?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Partially the reason for my last post to be honest, whilst I don't agree with what I understood in the end from Bismillah at least I had an understanding and text to try to understand it with. It sounds to me like Godobeyer has a totally different understanding of what Bismillah explained, so decided to ask the question.

My question was a general one and not pertaining to any one person or post. I'm trying to establish whether people think that their moral code is absolutely correct or just correct for their society. People continually make statements that such and such is wrong no matter who you are or where you are, so on and so on. Well a statement like that has implications. If true then why don't we simply force these changes on other societies? People are always saying we have to respect other cultures. We have to try and understand them and learn from them but when it comes time to do so it all falls apart.

Godobeyer is consitantly trying to expain his position in a language that is obviously a struggle for him but he remains calm and respectful. There is an opportunity here to reach out and help another person see what we consider an error in judgement and possibly even invoke change. Instead I see people doing nothing more than beating him over the head with the "I'm right your wrong" stick. This does not invoke change but instead creates resistance.

 

[Vinayaka]

2- they need to wear Hijab . to hide her beauty , to avoid to addict the man .

Definitely a cultural thing. Over here some men would find the hijab more attractive because of the secrecy. How about men wearing hijab to hide his beauty?

 

[Draka]

yeah ..... the fire never set the gaze .
you drink and dance and maybe you sleep in same home !!!!!!
look sister to be honest , if he never addict to you , there is something wrong , in him or in you .

Addict me? :sarcastic

Ed and I were best friends. He lived in barracks on base while I lived in an apartment off base. So he would come stay with me in town on some weekends and use my pull out sofa bed. He had his own relationships and I had mine. We were both straight, single, attractive people. We just valued our friendship a lot. We would go out and sing together and have some drinks together, just like I would with girl friends. Implying that if he didn't make a move on me (I'm assuming that's what you meant) that there was something wrong with one or both of us is just rude and presumptuous.

 

[Bismillah]

yeah brother , it's the highway to cheating and adultry , the discussion with woman and man should in conditions

So is looking at others, should I gouge out my wife's eyes so she doesn't cheat on me? What about a leash that way she can't leave my sight?

What is wrong with talking to other men? Do you think the women of the Prophet's time didn't do that? Do you think Khadija, a successful and wealthy businesswomen, didn't interact with men on a day to day basis? Would you dare accuse her chastity?

I don't want to argue this my brother, what I want to know is why you are so eager to beat your wife?

Do you speak fusha?

Have you read and reflected on these hadith

How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

Do not beat the female servants of Allah

Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you.

My question is my dear brother, why you would dare to hit your wife when you see how big of a deal it is? Why would you have the audacity and boldness to hit your wife because she talked to a man because she might in the future be tempted to fornicate? Is she your dog? Your plaything? Or do you not trust your wife to respect the Shari'ah and respect you and love and fear Allah what is your reason that you slander the taqwa and iman that she has?

Do you know that many many scholars don't think it is permissible to beat your wife? You have, since I posted above read the hadith. What do you think is the safest and wisest option in regards to this and what do you think is the kindest one that will allow you to be a better husband and have a fruitful marriage?

 

[Godobeyer]

Even if it was innocent chat, I talk to a lot of men, I work with many and socialise with many? To let me understand, what are the haraam steps?

innocent chat is forbiden because .it's first step to haraam .
the small sin take to big one , as we call here , smile then talk then then date then kiss then sex. , then son from another man (not her husband )
and you excuse that by drunk or innocent or civilization or freedom and "trust ", cheat him as he did " revenge "

 

[Godobeyer]

Right, you can't convince me to be an insecure, jealous little coward. We can agree on that.

now i am sure , there is no hope to convince you

 

[Kilgore Trout]

now i am sure , there is no hope to convince you

Yes, there is no way to convince me to be a jealous coward. I already agreed with you.

 

[Draka]

Yes, there is no way to convince me to be a jealous coward. I already agreed with you.

Hey KT, maybe if you're ever in my area we can go grab a couple beers together and hang out and chat. My husband will gladly stay home with the kids so I could go hang out with a friend.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm trying to establish whether people think that their moral code is absolutely correct or just correct for their society.

I think I understand the slippery slope you are referring to. Even within the same society, there are often different interpretations, just as we are seeing here between two Islamists. Then there are just ideas that are cross cultural, and found within all cultures. I'm not objecting to Islamic ideas of beating your wife. I'm objecting to beating your wife, period. I don't care if you're Hindu, atheist, Revoltistanian, or anything else imaginable. I object to beating your wife. I do think there are a few universal rights and wrongs, and this is one of them.

Something like wearing the hijab, or diet, however is different. I don't care if a person does or does not wear a turban, a hijab, religious jewelry to work, or whatever. Those things aren't affecting human dignity in the way beating does, IMHO.

 

[Enlighten]

innocent chat is forbiden because .it's first step to haraam .
the small sin take to big one , as we call here , smile then talk then then date then kiss then sex. , then son from another man (not her husband )
and you excuse that by drunk or innocent or civilization or freedom and "trust ", cheat him as he did " revenge "

But this is not what I understand from Bismillah, am I lost again?

I speak to many men in a day, it is part of my job to do so, I need to communicate, I have no sexual inclincation for these men I speak to. I also may speak to someone I meet in a shop, small talk, again no inclination. I don't see the harm? I do see harm in having an affair but speaking to a man as a friend is different. My husband has female friends too for that matter, I don't see wrong in it.

 

[Vinayaka]

innocent chat is forbiden because .it's first step to haraam .

Stepping out of the house comes before innocent chat. Is that forbidden too?