Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Godobeyer]

Have I ever said that? My entire point has always been that the issue is not as cut and dried as you would like it to be. There are a multitude of opinions and views on what is considered abuse and what is considered discipline and those opinions and views are often colored by the regions and cultures of the people involved. My exception with you has only been in your refusal to even attempt to see a situation from anothers point of view. I suspect this is a subject you are not able to view objectively.

they against me and you what ever you did , they against anyone had midle (not good just midle) opinion about Islam , they against anything even it is seems right

 

[Godobeyer]

What if this insubordunate wife had 6 big brothers, all bigger and meaner looking than you, willing to defend her. Would you still be willing to beat her for her insubordination?

i doubt about that , if they were sure that their daughter is insubordonate, they will beat her too .

 

[Kilgore Trout]

they against me and you what ever you did , they against anyone had midle (not good just midle) opinion about Islam , they against anything even it is seems right

I'm just against weak, cowardly men who resort to hitting their wives.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

they against me and you what ever you did , they against anyone had midle (not good just midle) opinion about Islam , they against anything even it is seems right

Not you per say but rather your actions. Also understand, I disagree with physical discipline of adults, I find it to be counter productive. In children I don't personally use physical discipline but I admit there are cases when it is the only thing that works. But in an adult, no. While I understand your perspective and why you feel the way you do, I would still urge you to consider alternative means of communicating your views to your wife. If you have to resort to a slap then I would say there is a lot of misunderstanding in your relationship.

 

[Godobeyer]

It depends upon where one lives.
In many countries, the Islamic ideas of right & wrong do not supersede law.
Beat your spouse here & you could be jailed. That's our "right & wrong".

yeah it's depend where you live and what you believe .
we have the woman here subordonate their husband because main two reasons :

2- because he is the responsible of her in everything , from the fiance to her death .
3- because God order her to subordinate to her husband .

 

[Godobeyer]

Not you per say but rather your actions. Also understand, I disagree with physical discipline of adults, I find it to be counter productive. In children I don't personally use physical discipline but I admit there are cases when it is the only thing that works. But in an adult, no. While I understand your perspective and why you feel the way you do, I would still urge you to consider alternative means of communicating your views to your wife. If you have to resort to a slap then I would say there is a lot of misunderstanding in your relationship.

i know my friend you not with me completly , as i see you just try to make them understand my point (because my bad english), because you may understand our religion and our tradition ,because you lived with muslims ,and you have many muslims friends .

 

[not nom]

I was just agreeing with Trey and the article he posted that sometimes in our culture (TV, etc.) there is a double standard that implies women slapping men is okay.

yeah, and I think that's because men slapping women is also abused with rape and death and whatnot. women slapping men, not so much. you see, women have other ways to control men ^^ but they rarely physically subdue them. and in case you don't understand, I am talking numbers here. also, who cares about TV -- seriously. if your problem is the TV, you don't have problems, just turn it off.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. What do you mean by "on the whole the situation is even remotely similar"?

why bring up a "double standard" other than to dilute the ongoing brutality against women, hmm? what is the point of it?

I literally do not know ONE man who has been raped by a woman. I do not know one man who was followed and threatened by his wife. I do not know one man who constantly claims he fell down the stairs, afraid to tell the truth. and so on. sure, that's just as anecdotal, but maybe you get my point.. if not, google "violence against women statistics" or whatever... but it makes me wonder what wonderful world you live in, where you need google to have that pointed out to you.

the "double standard" is that men are usually, statistically, physically stronger AND hormonally more aggressive... it's like the double standard in regards to pointing a gun at people, and pointing a toy rifle at people. is that so hard to get? really? holy ******* crap.

I'm being rude because I do not enjoy this conversation one bit.. to those I disagree with, I just want to bark at you and be on my way.

I met a man once who had bruises all over his face. He talked about how he loves his wife but she has a split personality, and she has had so much tragedy in her life that he lets her take it out on him. I was so shocked I didn't know what to say.

that is so utterly removed, so utterly unrelated to women living in fear. did the thought ever occur to you that maybe his bruises might be a mere shadow of what she went through? what is there to be shocked about? bruises in the face, which he can openly talk about, which he endures not out of fear, but out of love? are you ******* kidding me?

 

[Revoltingest]

yeah, and I think that's because men slapping women is also abused with rape and death and whatnot. women slapping men, not so much. you see, women have other ways to control men ^^ but they rarely physically subdue them. and in case you don't understand, I am talking numbers here. also, who cares about TV -- seriously. if your problem is the TV, you don't have problems, just turn it off.

The issue about violence on TV isn't that we should turn it off if we're offended, but rather about its potential effect on those who watch.
If a message is sent that women may strike men whenever they take offense, then physical abuse becomes more acceptable. And this
message might not be inferred so narrowly as women get to hit men, but broadened to encourage anyone to hit anyone.

 

[Godobeyer]

I'm just against weak, cowardly men who resort to hitting their wives.

cowardly are in every place , not just in Muslims countries or regions .
I just gave you video exemple of an american coward .

for me if my wife work with men and discuss with them afront of my eyes, i am coward and cuckold
for me if my wife insubordinate me , i am coward
for me if my law/culture/freedom allowed to woman to buy their bodies that's abuse to her .
for me if I am married unvirgin woman i am cuckold (in case i am virgin "not married before " )
for me the abuse when the old mothers throw in the infirimary (her end )

 

[Revoltingest]

cowardly are in every place , not just in Muslims countries or regions .

A fundamental difference is that Islam appears to require, or at least condone wife beating.
Here it is illegal & very wrong to beat a spouse.
An old cliche....
Without religion, good people will be good & bad people will be bad.
With religion, good people will be bad.

I just gave you video exemple of an american coward .

To use an example of play acting in pro wrestling is absurd.
You'd best drop this example.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

cowardly are in every place , not just in Muslims countries or regions .
I just gave you video exemple of an american coward .

for me if my wife work with men and discuss with them afront of my eyes, i am coward and cuckold
for me if my wife insubordinate me , i am coward
for me if my law/culture/freedom allowed to woman to buy their bodies that's abuse to her .
for me if I am married unvirgin woman i am cuckold (in case i am virgin "not married before " )
for me the abuse when the old mothers throw in the infirimary (her end )

Men who hit their wives are weak and they are cowards. If I see a man hitting his wife in front of me, I will beat him for being insubordinate to decency.

 

[not nom]

The issue about violence on TV isn't that we should turn it off if we're offended, but rather about its potential effect on those who watch.
If a message is sent that women may strike men whenever they take offense, then physical abuse becomes more acceptable. And this
message might not be inferred so narrowly as women get to hit men, but broadened to encourage anyone to hit anyone.

sure, I agree with that, generally.

but I still don't think there is a double standard, and that trying sneaking that into a discussion such as this is ****** up.

also, have you ever played GTA, lol? I will always remember when a female friend played that for the first time at my place, and the first thing she did was beat up prostitutes for at least 5 minutes (and no, that wasn't because she saw me do that ). violence against women is deeply engrained even in some women I guess..

anyways, on that backdrop, our media landscape in general, of gratuitous violence of men against men and women, to point out that women slapping men on TV might lead to more violence... is kinda astonishing to me, in any context.

I say no, just no... and that every woman who knows kung fu is one woman less to worry about.

 

[not nom]

[youtube]EdIMxP70sAM[/youtube]
Afghan funny U.S. soldier gets punked by afghan kids - YouTube

that video is kinda random, but this quote isn't:

I learned that it is the weak who are cruel, and that gentleness is to be expected only from the strong.​

-- Leo Rosten

 

[Revoltingest]

also, have you ever played GTA, lol? I will always remember when a female friend played that for the first time at my place, and the first thing she did was beat up prostitutes for at least 5 minutes (and no, that wasn't because she saw me do that ). violence against women is deeply engrained even in some women I guess..

I don't even know what GTA is. If it's a video/computer game, I don't do those.
But I do see a risk posed by first person shooter & other games which make the player more accustomed with violence.
I don't know how that affects violence in the real world....but I see potential for ill effects.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

yeah, and I think that's because men slapping women is also abused with rape and death and whatnot. women slapping men, not so much. you see, women have other ways to control men ^^ but they rarely physically subdue them. and in case you don't understand, I am talking numbers here. also, who cares about TV -- seriously. if your problem is the TV, you don't have problems, just turn it off.

All valid points. I certainly did not mean to imply that the abuse of men is a BIGGER problem than the abuse of women. The abuse of women is clearly a far more severe problem for all of the reasons you gave.

why bring up a "double standard" other than to dilute the ongoing brutality against women, hmm? what is the point of it?

I didn't mean to "dilute ongoing brutality against women" ....! I was just reminded of that man I met, with his bruised face. And I thought it was possible to acknowledge the existence of abuse against men, without diluting the much larger and more severe problem of abuse against women. I didn't realize our attention to different forms of domestic violence was a strictly zero-sum game.

that is so utterly removed, so utterly unrelated to women living in fear. did the thought ever occur to you that maybe his bruises might be a mere shadow of what she went through? what is there to be shocked about? bruises in the face, which he can openly talk about, which he endures not out of fear, but out of love? are you ******* kidding me?

not nom I think you are getting a little carried away here. Of course there was something to be shocked about, the guy had a bruised face and he was talking about his wife hitting him. Maybe his wife has even more terrible bruises, I don't know, it's sad and shocking in any case.

 

[Draka]

Men who hit their wives are weak and they are cowards. If I see a man hitting his wife in front of me, I will beat him for being insubordinate to decency.

Where were you when I was married to my first husband dammit?

On second thought, that is extremely rare you know. Most men who dare to hit their wives do so in private. They are also mostly men who dare not start a fight with other men. they are cowards who can only seem to show their "manliness" by beating up on their wives or girlfriends.

I remember when a co-worker friend of mine came home with me to hang out and watch a movie. My ex didn't see him there at first and was going off on me calling me names and ridiculing me...until he saw Mark. BIG guy, in uniform still, standing at the bottom of some stairs, with a not too happy look on his face. My ex suddenly went from douchewaffle to Mr. Nice Guy by waving and smiling at Mark and in an entirely different tone told us to have fun watching the movie. Abusive men are cowards.

 

[Vinayaka]

Where were you when I was married to my first husband dammit?

I take it you're not planning to move to an Islamic republic.

 

[Draka]

I take it you're not planning to move to an Islamic republic.

I don't think I'd do so well in certain countries. You know, being an outspoken Wiccan lady who won't tolerate being "subordinate" as a requirement in my relationship. Something tells me I might be in trouble in some places.

 

[not nom]

I didn't mean to "dilute ongoing brutality against women" ....! I was just reminded of that man I met, with his bruised face. And I thought it was possible to acknowledge the existence of abuse against men, without diluting the much larger and more severe problem of abuse against women. I didn't realize our attention to different forms of domestic violence was a strictly zero-sum game.

well, it's not you who brought up the "double standard" originally, so maybe don't take it to heart too much. and no, it's not a zero sum game, but people are SO prone for these cute little ways out, like "the others do it too, (let's not talk about that they do it a thousand times less)", and I'm allergic to that.

mind you that I don't think it's a subject worth bashing islam over, either. the ten commandments include the wife being property, so, whatev0r... in the kingdom of the blind, why pick on one blind guy out of many, right?

and looking at actual statistics, religion doesn't matter. it just doesn't. violence against women is not a religious problem (it's just that religion often isn't very helpful either, it's an accomplice).

not nom I think you are getting a little carried away here. Of course there was something to be shocked about, the guy had a bruised face and he was talking about his wife hitting him. Maybe his wife has even more terrible bruises, I don't know, it's sad and shocking in any case.

yeah I am. I don't mean to belittle the situation of that guy, but generally, I think it's warranted to make sure the message is loud and clear. this topic DOES **** me off, and why not! yes, men and women can both be brutal to each other, but when it comes to physical violence, I think in the hands of a man it's actually a weapon, in the hands of a woman not so much. it's more psychological warfare (which I'd never belittle in its own right, I just don't think it's comparable to beating someone into submission, raping or killing them) spilling over. again, I say usually. one anecdote, in this context, what does it mean? that it's possible for a man to be abused by a woman?

you replied that to someone who asked if I meant to say it's not, which was such a bollocks strawman I totally skipped conversing there and latched onto you, that's all. of course it's *possible*, but since nobody claimed it's not, why bring that up? can't you see I consider that diluting the subject? though it's actually a step up from "women slap men on TV" <--- wtf wtf wtf.

 

[Godobeyer]

A fundamental difference is that Islam appears to require, or at least condone insubordonite wife beating.
Here it is illegal & very wrong to beat a spouse.
An old cliche....
Without religion, good people will be good & bad people will be bad.
With religion, good people will be bad.

To use an example of play acting in pro wrestling is absurd.
You'd best drop this example.

you missed this

by the way
I have exemples not from WWE , are they absurd also, or they make you mute "no comment" ? you need to critic and fix your situation first than you give your adivse and critic the others .


[youtube]7Zb9NrkXTXM[/youtube]
Woman beating her Husband - YouTube

[youtube]jGcAzX9E3qU[/youtube]
Wife beating caught on video - YouTube

edited


Man brutally beats his wife during divorce proceedings (Warning Disturbing Images) - YouTube