• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

Status
Not open for further replies.

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
ah ,ok you have a six children you go out with one of them .
what about whom have not kids yet , need to permission to go out ?

No.

Could you perhaps explain the reasons for this?

The reason behind the mahr is that this money is hers and hers ONLY. In tradition, it is a gift from the husband to his wife as a recognition of her independence. He cannot, under Islamic rule, refuse to give it, nor can be ask for her to return it. Even in the event of divorce, the mahr is hers, since in theory he is supposed to give it to her immediately. If it is monetary, she can spend it however she wishes or save it.

Some women choose to use it for the family as well. Asong as it's her choice, it's fine. Mahr can be property, jewelry, etc. as well.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
yeah the woman is fancy in Islam it's live like a queen (on contrary) not as you except , we need to protoct her and care about her .
and for that we (the men) are the responsible for her ,

and if i want to marry a woman i need to give her some money (called المهر) , and I should got for her a house , and festival of the weding is also on me , and in during the mariage i should care about her demands .(at my limite )

I understand your view -- I do, really, at least I think. I understand that your intentions aren't lewd and that you think you're treating her like a princess.

But that's what people do with pets. My girlfriend likes to cuddle the cat at night -- sometimes even when the cat clearly doesn't want to be stuck there with her. I asked her one time why she thought it was ok to hold a cat still that doesn't want to be there and she said because she's her cat, that she provides for the cat and cares for the cat and keeps her out of the cold -- so that therefore the cat should do what she wants. I disagree with her.

It seems like you argue that men should treat women like she treats her pets. I don't agree with that.
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
The reason behind the mahr is that this money is hers and hers ONLY. In tradition, it is a gift from the husband to his wife as a recognition of her independence. He cannot, under Islamic rule, refuse to give it, nor can be ask for her to return it. Even in the event of divorce, the mahr is hers, since in theory he is supposed to give it to her immediately. If it is monetary, she can spend it however she wishes or save it.

Some women choose to use it for the family as well. Asong as it's her choice, it's fine. Mahr can be property, jewelry, etc. as well.
It sounded a bit weird when I read that, since it sounded like the man would buy the womans love or as if she was a property or something. I guess I can appriciate the symbolic value now, so thanks for the clarification :).
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
I understand your view -- I do, really, at least I think. I understand that your intentions aren't lewd and that you think you're treating her like a princess.

But that's what people do with pets. My girlfriend likes to cuddle the cat at night -- sometimes even when the cat clearly doesn't want to be stuck there with her. I asked her one time why she thought it was ok to hold a cat still that doesn't want to be there and she said because she's her cat, that she provides for the cat and cares for the cat and keeps her out of the cold -- so that therefore the cat should do what she wants. I disagree with her.

It seems like you argue that men should treat women like she treats her pets. I don't agree with that.
yeah it's looks like pet or slave but, the experience is other thing .
you could not understand the situation well , only in case you been a muslim.
you need to ask many Muslims for this case .they maybe clearfy this more .
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Members of that website are not authorized to give fatwas. Even they admitted there is no solid Hadith supporting that a woman needs permission to go out.
no i did not mean that , I mean ,did you heard/read a fatwa from scholars (shikh) , in this case ?
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
no i did not mean that , I mean ,did you heard/read a fatwa from scholars (shikh) , in this case ?

What did you mean then? I asked for proof that you need a husband's permission to leave the house, and you cited that website as your proof.

I have not asked a scholar that question, because I use what Allah gave me; common sense and a brain. I can figure out where I can go and I don't have to ask my husband. Why would I have to ask? What is the rationale behind requiring a wife to ask permission to go to a friend's house?
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
yeah it's looks like pet or slave but, the experience is other thing .
you could not understand the situation well , only in case you been a muslim.
you need to ask many Muslims for this case .they maybe clearfy this more .

If being a Muslimah means being subordinate to my husband like a songbird in a gilded cage -- there to look pretty and obey his whims just because he feeds me -- then Islam is not for me. In any case, it appears as though other Muslims/Muslimahs have different ideas on this issue; so I think it may just be a manner of how you're interpreting it.

Yes, men and women are physically different in some aspects; but the notion of equality between the sexes doesn't mean men bearing children and women doing heaver upper body lifting. Equality between the sexes means that neither is the property of the other -- neither is subordinate to the other one.

In an equal relationship, husband and wife have equal say on matters of the household. One isn't subordinate to the other one's will; but instead they talk together about how to solve problems. They listen to one another -- and no one has the "final word," because ideally they come to a compromising solution.

They respect one another -- they don't just leave for somewhere without saying so, or without saying where they're going. Nobody needs permission to do things, but they're considerate by seeing if their lover has an issue with what they want to do.

I prefer that far more than the system you describe.
 

Enlighten

Well-Known Member
it's call kiss ? it's kiss what ever it's kind .

I do not agree, there are different types of kisses. There are congratulations, hello, goodbye, pleased to meet you, I love you; to name a few but that is besides the point.

Would you kiss your mother the same way your kiss your wife? (see different kiss), Would you kiss your child the way you kiss your wife? (again)
Would you kiss your wife the way you kiss the above? (again)
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
I do not agree, there are different types of kisses. There are congratulations, hello, goodbye, pleased to meet you, I love you; to name a few but that is besides the point.

Would you kiss your mother the same way your kiss your wife? (see different kiss), Would you kiss your child the way you kiss your wife? (again)
Would you kiss your wife the way you kiss the above? (again)
you miss understand the situation here .
In Islam it's forbindone for abult man to kiss or just touch a forgien adult woman .and inverse

I never let my wife kiss any forgien man , because two reasons , because it's forbidone .
and because i am jeolous man .
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
If being a Muslimah means being subordinate to my husband like a songbird in a gilded cage -- there to look pretty and obey his whims just because he feeds me -- then Islam is not for me. In any case, it appears as though other Muslims/Muslimahs have different ideas on this issue; so I think it may just be a manner of how you're interpreting it.

Yes, men and women are physically different in some aspects; but the notion of equality between the sexes doesn't mean men bearing children and women doing heaver upper body lifting. Equality between the sexes means that neither is the property of the other -- neither is subordinate to the other one.

In an equal relationship, husband and wife have equal say on matters of the household. One isn't subordinate to the other one's will; but instead they talk together about how to solve problems. They listen to one another -- and no one has the "final word," because ideally they come to a compromising solution.

They respect one another -- they don't just leave for somewhere without saying so, or without saying where they're going. Nobody needs permission to do things, but they're considerate by seeing if their lover has an issue with what they want to do.

I prefer that far more than the system you describe.
this is totaly wrong , the woman is human not animal , I guess not only the Muslims woman whom obey the husband ,I guess we had also the Hindous and Chiness wives, their wives obey their husbands also .

it's exaclty as nuns respect and obey the leader of the church or Pope .in every society there is a leader , the family is the smalles unity of the society , there should be a leader inside it .

the definition of leader , is not forcely is mean slavery , it's mean exchange respect and know the role of each one , know the duty and rights , all by respect and love and mercy .
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
If being a Muslimah means being subordinate to my husband like a songbird in a gilded cage -- there to look pretty and obey his whims just because he feeds me -- then Islam is not for me. In any case, it appears as though other Muslims/Muslimahs have different ideas on this issue; so I think it may just be a manner of how you're interpreting it.

Yes, men and women are physically different in some aspects; but the notion of equality between the sexes doesn't mean men bearing children and women doing heaver upper body lifting. Equality between the sexes means that neither is the property of the other -- neither is subordinate to the other one.

In an equal relationship, husband and wife have equal say on matters of the household. One isn't subordinate to the other one's will; but instead they talk together about how to solve problems. They listen to one another -- and no one has the "final word," because ideally they come to a compromising solution.

They respect one another -- they don't just leave for somewhere without saying so, or without saying where they're going. Nobody needs permission to do things, but they're considerate by seeing if their lover has an issue with what they want to do.

I prefer that far more than the system you describe.

MM, My marriage is very similar to what you describe as ideal. The wife and I have been together for so long we have hammered out our differences and reached mutual understandings. In the beginning of our relationship, it was more traditional where she stayed at home raising our children. Once they where raised and out of the home, she went to college and got a degree and now has a career. That meant I had to do more around the house. I cook and clean as much or more than she does now. We both come and go as we please like we always did, but we let each other know where we are and when we will be back. We are both equals but we answer to one another as well. I still consider myself the head of the house hold, but I rarely do anything that would reflect that in our relationship. We both have the power to "put our foot down". That means something is unacceptable to us and will be respected. In the last ten years, I have put my foot down once. My wife has this power as well and we both agree to abide by this, but don't abuse this option. I can't remember the last time my wife put her foot down, but I know she has in the past and I respected that. The reason our relationship works so well is we both have the same goals and desires in life.

All that said, this is what works for us. I in no way think that everyone around the world should be just like me. It is wrong for first world countries to expect third world countries to be exactly the same.

It would be hypocritical of us to believe that the whole world be just like us. They may reach a point where they progress just like we did but we have to remember that women in our own country could not vote not all that long ago.

The U.S.A. still has a long way to go before we ourselves have our own act together. There are still inequalities here in the States as I am sure you realise.

My point is, Americans think the whole world should be just like us. That is a great goal but we have to realise that in different parts of the world there are different cultures and laws. They may need another 50 or 100 years to get to where we are. They may never change either.

It upsets me when Americans think the whole world is just like us. It just shows you the ignorance and intolerance we have for the rest of the world.

Many countries are more progressive than we are. I don't want them looking down their noses at us just because we have not obtained their level of accomplishment.
 

Enlighten

Well-Known Member
you miss understand the situation here .
In Islam it's forbindone for abult man to kiss or just touch a forgien adult woman .and inverse

I never let my wife kiss any forgien man , because two reasons , because it's forbidone .
and because i am jeolous man .

So I understand correctly, what do you mean by foreign? If you mean someone who is not your husband/wife and is not known to you, a complete stranger, then I partially agree but as ssainhu mentioned there are cultural differences where, here we may greet someone with a kiss on the cheek. At new year it is custom to shake someones hand and kiss on the cheek to wish someone "happy new year" even strangers at times if at a gathering.

If you mean that the wife may not kiss any other man apart from her husband even if known to them, then this again may come down to cultural difference. To go back to the example I used about being kissed at my wedding, these men were all family members, father, uncles, cousins, friends (I class good friends as family too) who were using a kiss as a way of congratulations. That is why I used the mother, father, child example earlier to show there are different types of kiss.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Many countries are more progressive than we are. I don't want them looking down their noses at us just because we have not obtained their level of accomplishment.
People are going to have notions on American culture and other cultures based on the social content these cultures produce, I am not sure there is a way around it.
just like when some sectors in my country apply standards that are not in line with those of the majority, people develop a negative view of them. a classic case is the standards the ultra orthodox apply to women, this is something which provokes plenty of negative vibes from a much larger secular Israeli sector which protests the difference of standards.
I don't think we should develop such a defensive sense for sacred cows. or worse bury our hands in the sand as if we are not entitled to be informed or protest social injustice.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
So I understand correctly, what do you mean by foreign? If you mean someone who is not your husband/wife and is not known to you, a complete stranger, then I partially agree but as ssainhu mentioned there are cultural differences where, here we may greet someone with a kiss on the cheek. At new year it is custom to shake someones hand and kiss on the cheek to wish someone "happy new year" even strangers at times if at a gathering.

If you mean that the wife may not kiss any other man apart from her husband even if known to them, then this again may come down to cultural difference. To go back to the example I used about being kissed at my wedding, these men were all family members, father, uncles, cousins, friends (I class good friends as family too) who were using a kiss as a way of congratulations. That is why I used the mother, father, child example earlier to show there are different types of kiss.
for more info ,
in general case the Muslim wife don't have the right (forbidane to kiss or just touche any forgien man even she know him .only in emergenrcy cases like a doctor can touch her .....etc
everyone is stranger for my wife except her small family . her father or ancles or brothers of course .
 

blackout

Violet.
for more info ,
in general case the Muslim wife don't have the right (forbidane to kiss or just touche any forgien man even she know him .only in emergenrcy cases like a doctor can touch her .....etc
everyone is stranger for my wife except her small family . her father or ancles or brothers of course .

Would you allow your wife to come on a forum such as this
(where no one can kiss or touch)
and converse in a friendly manner with everyone/anyone here?
(as you do)

 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
this is totaly wrong , the woman is human not animal , I guess not only the Muslims woman whom obey the husband ,I guess we had also the Hindous and Chiness wives, their wives obey their husbands also .

it's exaclty as nuns respect and obey the leader of the church or Pope .in every society there is a leader , the family is the smalles unity of the society , there should be a leader inside it .

the definition of leader , is not forcely is mean slavery , it's mean exchange respect and know the role of each one , know the duty and rights , all by respect and love and mercy .

How convenient for muslim husbands!

Requiring a leader in everything hasn't worked out that well for muslim societies has it? I think that that attitude needs to change.

If you must have a leader in the family, would you approve of the wife being the leader?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top