Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Godobeyer]

I'm not a native Arabic speaker so please will you bother to show me a proper translation? I know which verse you are quoting, however I do have a different understanding of it, I hope you are able to respect that.

ah , no problem

Yusuf Ali:
[004:034] Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because God has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what God would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For God is Most High, great (above you all).

from
The Noble Quran's Search Results:

 

[Draka]

your society are not perfect , the west did trade in the woman , they allow to them stand accros the street and in shops "behind mirror" .
and they made them in bars dansing naked for fun .
you are just a source of fun (for their desires) to most of men in the west .
I am not talking about the hundreds of the adult site . which made the woman made sex in all position (pity and cheap then slave ) and make sex with animals also !!!!
honesly if you critic the muslims situation in the society , you need to dare to critic the situation of some women in the west also , or i will stop to post in this thread .

What am I supposed to critique? That some women, as is their choice, decide to become exotic dancers or porn actresses? You mean...just like some men decide to be exotic dancers or porn actors? You think only women do these things and that they are forced to do them? In very rare circumstances will you find that there is any forcing/coercion done to have someone do these jobs and where there is, it is illegal.

Oh, and I'm not criticizing all Muslims or Muslim society, I'm criticizing your position, which I believe, many have shown is NOT the accepted Islamic position in general. If I believed that what it is to be a Muslim husband could be defined by your words alone I would be as guilty of mass faulty generalization as you are about the west.

back to your reply :
in the west the woman most of cases it's obligation for her to work , the muslim no, for mulims women it's facultatif .

You can say this until you are blue in the face, but it doesn't mean anything. In the US there are a variety of situations and family dynamics. Some women work, some don't. Some women come from money or have maybe invented something that makes a lot of money so that they don't have to work. Same with men. Some women don't want to work and marry into money, or marry a man willing to support her. Some women want to work because they find it fulfilling. Honestly, I think you will find most women find it an "obligation" unto themselves to be able to hold her own financially, because it is better to be able to stand on one's own feet than to expect to be always taken care of. Especially if the person "taking care of" you is a controlling, manipulative, jealousy ridden abuser.

as I know the most of the men had other relation even they are mariage , and maybe the same thing with women ,betraying is very vast habit in the west .

So, now "most" men are cheating on their wives? :areyoucra You are trying to make it sound like we are all a bunch of over-sexed, immoral, lying cretins over here. That simply isn't so no matter how much you want to believe it is.

as I know in the west most of the old parent , their childerns took them to infirmiry

You mean some senior citizens decide to go to retirement homes instead of moving in with their adult children and their children? So? Or are you talking about how some elderly will go to nursing homes because they either have no family or they don't want to be a burden on their kids (who may be too strapped or strained to be able to care for them fully like they deserve)? There may be some people who actually put their elderly parents in nursing homes because they don't want to deal with them, but it's really not as if that is the norm. I did my CNA training in a nursing home. There were some sad cases where some sweet old lady didn't have any family to visit her, or the guy whose family lived so far away they barely made it out to see him. But, again, that wasn't the norm.

as I know in the west ,the women at 18 should try to find house and job , and then boyfriend .

Everyone should try to get stable on their own feet if possible.


You know, as much as you want to criticize the west with what you think you know, it doesn't change the fact that you are for abusing women. No matter how much you want to deny that or put stipulations on things. If you advocate striking a woman, for any reason (except maybe if she is beating the holy hell out of you and you need to get her off you), you ARE advocating abuse. Plain and simple. All your deflecting to your perceived wrongs in the west doesn't change that. Bringing up nursing homes and exotic dancers changes nothing and only makes you sound even more absurd in your arguments. And if me trying to correct your misconceptions time and again makes you want to stop posting here, then fine. Stop posting. The only thing we'll be out is the disturbing insistence of yours that hitting your "insubordinate" wife is hunky dory. I think that's a thing we could all do without actually.

 

[YmirGF]

The only thing we'll be out is the disturbing insistence of yours that hitting your "insubordinate" wife is hunky dory. I think that's a thing we could all do without actually.

See, Draka, and therein lies the conundrum. The thing is, a lot of Muslims DO NOT agree with the idea of the Qur'an sanctioning the beating of one's wife for disobedience. Now, before you pop the campaign cork, understand that, unfortunately, there are still a rather lot of Muslims who DO believe that it is perfectly peachy to inflict punishments on their "disobedient" spouses.

What keeps hitting me in the head on this topic is that the position of the male is never put in question. It's as if they have carte blanche to insist on whatever behavior they like, within Islamic guidelines, and if in doubt, pick a "scholar" who agrees with your position, so you can merrily bludgeon your spouse with religious conviction. For example, what happens when a wife is FAR smarter than her husband? Is she just to go along with every fool idea he has to be obedient? Why is it that we rarely hear of men spoken about in less than perfect terms? One would almost get the impression there is a built in sexism involved.

 

[Godobeyer]

What am I supposed to critique? That some women, as is their choice, decide to become exotic dancers or porn actresses? You mean...just like some men decide to be exotic dancers or porn actors? You think only women do these things and that they are forced to do them? In very rare circumstances will you find that there is any forcing/coercion done to have someone do these jobs and where there is, it is illegal.

No i did not mean that they forcely do that Jobs , i am it's very digusting Jobs for human being .which destroy the degnity of the women .

Oh, and I'm not criticizing all Muslims or Muslim society, I'm criticizing your position, which I believe, many have shown is NOT the accepted Islamic position in general. If I believed that what it is to be a Muslim husband could be defined by your words alone I would be as guilty of mass faulty generalization as you are about the west.

my position is came from the Quran that you don't believe in it , but because you don't have understand the essence meaning of that verse , and because you are not Muslim and you don't live in islamic society , i am not blame you

You can say this until you are blue in the face, but it doesn't mean anything. In the US there are a variety of situations and family dynamics. Some women work, some don't. Some women come from money or have maybe invented something that makes a lot of money so that they don't have to work. Same with men. Some women don't want to work and marry into money, or marry a man willing to support her. Some women want to work because they find it fulfilling. Honestly, I think you will find most women find it an "obligation" unto themselves to be able to hold her own financially, because it is better to be able to stand on one's own feet than to expect to be always taken care of. Especially if the person "taking care of" you is a controlling, manipulative, jealousy ridden abuser.

the result is the women in the west work is neccesry for her (obligation), not like the muslim woman is facultatif .

So, now "most" men are cheating on their wives? :areyoucra You are trying to make it sound like we are all a bunch of over-sexed, immoral, lying cretins over here. That simply isn't so no matter how much you want to believe it is.

let's be honest I know how you living , many men cheat their wives with 00000 women.
as I know that most of the western people had made sex without mariage with many persons, and after the mariage there are many continous made sex with others , even you considerate it errors .

Or are you talking about how some elderly will go to nursing homes because they either have no family or they don't want to be a burden on their kids (who may be too strapped or strained to be able to care for them fully like they deserve)? There may be some people who actually put their elderly parents in nursing homes because they don't want to deal with them, but it's really not as if that is the norm. I did my CNA training in a nursing home. There were some sad cases where some sweet old lady didn't have any family to visit her, or the guy whose family lived so far away they barely made it out to see him. But, again, that wasn't the norm.

I mean this , the end of parents and especialy the mother is nursing homes ,it's bad end for someone love you most than him self .
I am admire your good feeling .

Everyone should try to get stable on their own feet if possible.


You know, as much as you want to criticize the west with what you think you know, it doesn't change the fact that you are for abusing women. No matter how much you want to deny that or put stipulations on things. If you advocate striking a woman, for any reason (except maybe if she is beating the holy hell out of you and you need to get her off you), you ARE advocating abuse. Plain and simple. All your deflecting to your perceived wrongs in the west doesn't change that. Bringing up nursing homes and exotic dancers changes nothing and only makes you sound even more absurd in your arguments. And if me trying to correct your misconceptions time and again makes you want to stop posting here, then fine. Stop posting. The only thing we'll be out is the disturbing insistence of yours that hitting your "insubordinate" wife is hunky dory. I think that's a thing we could all do without actually.

try to reach my idea , as you told in the west no one force the women to go out work (dance or porno ...etc ) , we have the same here , no one force the Muslim woman to marry a muslim man because she know that she will maybe beating and obey him .

I know some mulims woman made a condition of the work (or not to marry him) , or condition of live in private appartement (for exemple ) some guys accept the condition and some others no .

it's refer the Muslim woman to accept who had to beat her or who had to be mercy with her , or who had let her go to work or who had order her to stay home ....etc
it's her choice .even she married him then she regret , she could divorce him simply and married other who respect her more .

 

[Draka]

See, Draka, and therein lies the conundrum. The thing is, a lot of Muslims DO NOT agree with the idea of the Qur'an sanctioning the beating of one's wife for disobedience. Now, before you pop the campaign cork, understand that, unfortunately, there are still a rather lot of Muslims who DO believe that it is perfectly peachy to inflict punishments on their "disobedient" spouses.

What keeps hitting me in the head on this topic is that the position of the male is never put in question. It's as if they have carte blanche to insist on whatever behavior they like, within Islamic guidelines, and if in doubt, pick a "scholar" who agrees with your position, so you can merrily bludgeon your spouse with religious conviction. For example, what happens when a wife is FAR smarter than her husband? Is she just to go along with every fool idea he has to be obedient? Why is it that we rarely hear of men spoken about in less than perfect terms? One would almost get the impression there is a built in sexism involved.

The question has been put out several times here as to the roles being reversed. That is, what of the husband being wrong or doing wrong? That doesn't even seem to be considered as an option. As if the man can do no wrong. Oh, and I know he's not the only one with his stance, as saddening as that is. He is but an example of his culture. And I am talking his regional culture, not his religious culture. It is obvious that different societies withing certain regions will adapt a religion to suit their needs. As some do with Christianity as well. Try to use the religion as justification for their bad actions. It truly is amazing how some people can get so much hate and cruelty out of a religion others get so much love and peace out of. People take what they want huh? Speaks more of the people than the religion.

 

[Godobeyer]

See, Draka, and therein lies the conundrum. The thing is, a lot of Muslims DO NOT agree with the idea of the Qur'an sanctioning the beating of one's wife for disobedience. Now, before you pop the campaign cork, understand that, unfortunately, there are still a rather lot of Muslims who DO believe that it is perfectly peachy to inflict punishments on their "disobedient" spouses.

What keeps hitting me in the head on this topic is that the position of the male is never put in question. It's as if they have carte blanche to insist on whatever behavior they like, within Islamic guidelines, and if in doubt, pick a "scholar" who agrees with your position, so you can merrily bludgeon your spouse with religious conviction. For example, what happens when a wife is FAR smarter than her husband? Is she just to go along with every fool idea he has to be obedient? Why is it that we rarely hear of men spoken about in less than perfect terms? One would almost get the impression there is a built in sexism involved.

good point
any way i am here to make the things clear ,for me I can not changing the meaning of the verse to please my self or please the non-muslim . if i reject the meaning of any verse or reject any verse that mean , it's like I reject whole Quran .and this is very dangerous situation some muslims put them selves in it ,

for me i will never be shy or feel shame for any verse in Quran , because some one misunderstand it .

ok this is the verse in arabic, go translate it to english , copy/paste red word
4-34
[FONT=&quot] الرجال قوامون على النساء بما فضل الله بعضهم على بعض وبما انفقوا من اموالهم فالصالحات قانتات حافظات للغيب بما حفظ الله واللاتي تخافون نشوزهن فعظوهن واهجروهن في المضاجع واضربوهن فان اطعنكم فلاتبغوا عليهن سبيلا ان الله كان عليا كبيرا[/FONT]

what is the result ?

 

[Draka]

No i did not mean that they forcely do that Jobs , i am it's very digusting Jobs for human being .which destroy the degnity of the women .

In your opinion. Some women may find it liberating and empowering. Isn't it up to the woman if she feels she has dignity? And what of the men in the same professions? Are you worried about their dignity?

my position is came from the Quran that you don't believe in it , but because you don't have understand the essence meaning of that verse , and because you are not Muslim and you don't live in islamic society , i am not blame you

I'm going by the fact that pretty much every other Muslim on this site, and ones I've met and spoken to in person, disagree with you. Your interpretation of the Quran has nothing to do with it. You obviously get out of it what you want to see.

the result is the women in the west work is neccesry for her (obligation), not like the muslim woman is facultatif .

You keep saying that over and over. I just posted quite a bit about how that is wrong. How your sweeping generalization doesn't work, but you just, again, want to believe what you want to believe.

let's be honest I know how you living ,

Obviously you don't.

many men cheat their wives with 00000 women.

Some men may cheat, but certainly not most, and certainly not with thousands of women. Who do you think the average man in the west is? Wilt Chamberlain???

as I know that most of the western people had made sex without mariage with many persons, and after the mariage there are many continous made sex with others , even you considerate it errors

Before a person gets married their sex life, whatever it may be, is their own and whether they remain chaste or have sex is purely their choice. As for during marriage, I think you have been watching far too many soap operas or porns or something. Marriages may fall apart for many reasons, but the majority is not for cheating. Actually, financial strain is the most often cause for marital strife. With that thought, a woman working to make more income for the household can be a very good thing for the marriage.

I mean this , the end of parents and especialy the mother is nursing homes ,it's bad end for someone love you most than him self .
I am admire your good feeling .

I still have no idea what your point is about nursing homes. Not every elderly person end up in one, in fact, most don't. I really have no idea why you are bringing this up except, again, to try to deflect attention off your advocacy for abuse towards women.

try to reach my idea , as you told in the west no one force the women to go out work (dance or porno ...etc ) , we have the same here , no one force the Muslim woman to marry a muslim man because she know that she will maybe beating and obey him .

I know some mulims woman made a condition of the work (or not to marry him) , or condition of live in private appartement (for exemple ) some guys accept the condition and some others no .

it's refer the Muslim woman to accept who had to beat her or who had to be mercy with her , or who had let her go to work or who had order her to stay home ....etc
it's her choice .even she married him then she regret , she could divorce him simply and married other who respect her more .

Riiiiiight. Women in your society aren't coerced into believing that getting married is what they should do. :sarcastic That being controlled and abused is just how it is. :sarcastic That you honestly think that a woman would, if given a purely free and educated choice, choose to go into a relationship KNOWING she could be beaten and treated badly, is just sad and absurd.

 

[Godobeyer]

In your opinion. Some women may find it liberating and empowering. Isn't it up to the woman if she feels she has dignity? And what of the men in the same professions? Are you worried about their dignity?

sorry I meant dirty Jobs , adultery and danse naked ...etc ,
for your opinion where is the dignity in this rude "jobs " ?

I'm going by the fact that pretty much every other Muslim on this site, and ones I've met and spoken to in person, disagree with you. Your interpretation of the Quran has nothing to do with it. You obviously get out of it what you want to see.

acuatly they seem don't know arabic , that's why are against me .

You keep saying that over and over. I just posted quite a bit about how that is wrong. How your sweeping generalization doesn't work, but you just, again, want to believe what you want to believe.

I mean most (not all )of the women should work .

Obviously you don't.

ok , let's count how many bar (adultery places ) in your state ? and naked dancer clubs and, and I ask you if you ever seen in road or in phone some one you know made sex ?
and how about the beachs in summer , the girls almost naked or clothed ...etc

Some men may cheat, but certainly not most, and certainly not with thousands of women. Who do you think the average man in the west is? Wilt Chamberlain???

Before a person gets married their sex life, whatever it may be, is their own and whether they remain chaste or have sex is purely their choice. As for during marriage, I think you have been watching far too many soap operas or porns or something. Marriages may fall apart for many reasons, but the majority is not for cheating. Actually, financial strain is the most often cause for marital strife. With that thought, a woman working to make more income for the household can be a very good thing for the marriage.

acuatly you have over honest heart ,and positive view in men ,but i am sure the reality is shocking .

I still have no idea what your point is about nursing homes. Not every elderly person end up in one, in fact, most don't. I really have no idea why you are bringing this up except, again, to try to deflect attention off your advocacy for abuse towards women.

I know that you don't understand me , because it's normal to put your parents in nursing homes , in our religion i guess it's forbiden , and it's something disgusting .

Riiiiiight. Women in your society aren't coerced into believing that getting married is what they should do. :sarcastic That being controlled and abused is just how it is. :sarcastic That you honestly think that a woman would, if given a purely free and educated choice, choose to go into a relationship KNOWING she could be beaten and treated badly, is just sad and absurd.

I told, we (you and us) are not perfect , if you find a muslim abuse , you maybe find a western man abuse and cheat and drink ....the mariage is just lottery if you are lucky you will got good person , if not you had to divorce

 

[Enlighten]

ah , no problem

Yusuf Ali:
[004:034] Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because God has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what God would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For God is Most High, great (above you all).

from
The Noble Quran's Search Results:

As I posted before, this can also be translated to mean: "when a wife causes a problem in the marriage, her husband should first talk to her about it, then leave their bed (forsaking his sexual satisfaction), then avoid her even more (not talking to her anymore, leaving the room when she enters it, and possibly even leaving the house for a while), in order to prevent things from getting worse, and on the contrary to let things cool down and create enough space in view of increasing chances of a reconciliation. "

 

[Draka]

sorry I meant dirty Jobs , adultery and danse naked ...etc ,
for your opinion where is the dignity in this rude "jobs " ?

Dignity is in the self-respect and feeling of worthiness within an individual. If a lady can be an erotic dancer and respect herself and feel she is a worthy individual, who are you to question that? Again, you fail to answer about men who do the same jobs. There are men who dance and strip for women to watch. What of them?

acuatly they seem don't know arabic , that's why are against me .

Not entirely true. As there are some Muslims on this site other than you who do speak Arabic. You were already told this. So obviously not knowing Arabic doesn't seem to be the main or only reason you are disagreed with.

I mean most (not all )of the women should work .

You really need to drop this point of yours now. It really has been proven to have nothing to do with anything now.

ok , let's count how many bar (adultery places ) in your state ? and naked dancer clubs and, and I ask you if you ever seen in road or in phone some one you know made sex ?
and how about the beachs in summer , the girls almost naked or clothed ...etc

You think bars are a place to commit adultery??? I use to go out to bars quite frequently before I had my kids and I can't recall seeing all kinds of sex and adultery everywhere. I went out for the reasons most others did. Have a few drinks, hang out with friends, dance to music, play pool, maybe even sing some karaoke. I have never seen anyone having sex in a road. And what does wearing swimsuits at a beach have to do with adultery? Nothing. In fact, none of what you have talked about has to do with adultery. And again, you are trying to deflect. You want to point out all these supposedly bad things about the west to try to make your stance look better. It doesn't work. You are only showing how little you know and how desperate you are to try to make yourself look better.

acuatly you have over honest heart ,and positive view in men ,but i am sure the reality is shocking .

I don't think you even know what reality is.

I know that you don't understand me , because it's normal to put your parents in nursing homes , in our religion i guess it's forbiden , and it's something disgusting .

You really need to stop with all of this nonsense. Again, you don't know what you are talking about and and only showing how much you need to deflect.

I told, we (you and us) are not perfect , if you find a muslim abuse , you maybe find a western man abuse and cheat and drink ....the mariage is just lottery if you are lucky you will got good person , if not you had to divorce

Oh, so a Muslim man might be abusive, but a western man has cheating and drinking on top of abusing? :sarcastic So, what? A western lady should be happy to have such a fine abusive Muslim man such as yourself as compared to one of all the drunken, cheating, abusive men running rampant in the west? :areyoucra

 

[Godobeyer]

As I posted before, this can also be translated to mean: "when a wife causes a problem in the marriage, her husband should first talk to her about it, then leave their bed (forsaking his sexual satisfaction), then avoid her even more (not talking to her anymore, leaving the room when she enters it, and possibly even leaving the house for a while), in order to prevent things from getting worse, and on the contrary to let things cool down and create enough space in view of increasing chances of a reconciliation. "

i am very happy that you are understand more that verse of Quran

accualty is close to that meaning , but the soft "beat" is worestest solution between all the previous steps that God required to the husband in that problem .
and you right about "reconciliation" is the last step before the divoree , they need to call arbitors from their families .

 

[Godobeyer]

Dignity is in the self-respect and feeling of worthiness within an individual. If a lady can be an erotic dancer and respect herself and feel she is a worthy individual, who are you to question that? Again, you fail to answer about men who do the same jobs. There are men who dance and strip for women to watch. What of them?

I don't know how you considerete the erotic dancing and strip as good image for the woman or bad ,
for the men is the same , this realy digusting for me .

Not entirely true. As there are some Muslims on this site other than you who do speak Arabic. You were already told this. So obviously not knowing Arabic doesn't seem to be the main or only reason you are disagreed with.

I will disagreed with them if they understand the meaning in wrong way because the translation sometimes is not exactly as the original.

You think bars are a place to commit adultery??? I use to go out to bars quite frequently before I had my kids and I can't recall seeing all kinds of sex and adultery everywhere. I went out for the reasons most others did. Have a few drinks, hang out with friends, dance to music, play pool, maybe even sing some karaoke. I have never seen anyone having sex in a road. And what does wearing swimsuits at a beach have to do with adultery? Nothing. In fact, none of what you have talked about has to do with adultery. And again, you are trying to deflect. You want to point out all these supposedly bad things about the west to try to make your stance look better. It doesn't work. You are only showing how little you know and how desperate you are to try to make yourself look better.

no , I talking about the bars which commit adultery . (you know what i mean )
don't tell that you are in religous state , like Saudi Arabia hhhhhhhhhh

Oh, so a Muslim man might be abusive, but a western man has cheating and drinking on top of abusing? :sarcastic So, what? A western lady should be happy to have such a fine abusive Muslim man such as yourself as compared to one of all the drunken, cheating, abusive men running rampant in the west? :areyoucra

edited :acuatly rarely we found muslims man drinking , we had almost no one cheating,because adultery in Islam, in the a major sin . and i rarely heard that someone beat his wife .
what about the men in the west ? they just do gay and strip ?

 

[Looncall]

No i did not mean that they forcely do that Jobs , i am it's very digusting Jobs for human being .which destroy the degnity of the women .


my position is came from the Quran that you don't believe in it , but because you don't have understand the essence meaning of that verse , and because you are not Muslim and you don't live in islamic society , i am not blame you





the result is the women in the west work is neccesry for her (obligation), not like the muslim woman is facultatif .

let's be honest I know how you living , many men cheat their wives with 00000 women.
as I know that most of the western people had made sex without mariage with many persons, and after the mariage there are many continous made sex with others , even you considerate it errors .


I mean this , the end of parents and especialy the mother is nursing homes ,it's bad end for someone love you most than him self .
I am admire your good feeling .



try to reach my idea , as you told in the west no one force the women to go out work (dance or porno ...etc ) , we have the same here , no one force the Muslim woman to marry a muslim man because she know that she will maybe beating and obey him .

I know some mulims woman made a condition of the work (or not to marry him) , or condition of live in private appartement (for exemple ) some guys accept the condition and some others no .

it's refer the Muslim woman to accept who had to beat her or who had to be mercy with her , or who had let her go to work or who had order her to stay home ....etc
it's her choice .even she married him then she regret , she could divorce him simply and married other who respect her more .

What is all this about choice when we constantly hear of forced marriages among muslims? I gather that the British government even finds it necessary to have special agents who look after women who have been taken to some primitive village in the east and forced into marriage.

It really is rich to hear people who live in the most corrupt societies on earth go on and on about how moral they are. It is to laugh.

 

[Godobeyer]

What is all this about choice when we constantly hear of forced marriages among muslims? I gather that the British government even finds it necessary to have special agents who look after women who have been taken to some primitive village in the east and forced into marriage.

I really is rich to hear people who live in the most corrupt societies on earth go on and on about how moral they are. It is to laugh.

yeah corrupt societies on earth ,is your list of ignored full or not ? to add me in it because i am belong to them .

 

[Godobeyer]

the cheap man like dogs barking from distance.
the real man never insult from distance .

 

[Drolefille]

the cheap man like dogs barking from distance.
the real man never insult from distance .

The real man doesn't try to control someone else through physical violence.

 

[Godobeyer]

The real man doesn't try to control someone else through physical violence.

and if my fiance(my future wife) accept me to beat her, and accept me to marry other second woman , and she will do anything I want, where is the problem ?

 

[Enlighten]

i am very happy that you are understand more that verse of Quran

accualty is close to that meaning , but the soft "beat" is worestest solution between all the previous steps that God required to the husband in that problem .
and you right about "reconciliation" is the last step before the divoree , they need to call arbitors from their families .

Godobeyer please read this link fully then let me know your thoughts, it provides very useful information as to how beating a woman is actually contradicting what Allah taught: Qur'anic verse 4:34

 

[Draka]

I don't know how you considerete the erotic dancing and strip as good image for the woman or bad ,
for the men is the same , this realy digusting for me .

Whatever.

I will disagreed with them if they understand the meaning in wrong way because the translation sometimes is not exactly as the original.

So basically, even though other Muslims read, write, and speak Arabic, they don't understand it correctly if they disagree with you? Is that what you are saying?

no , I talking about the bars which commit adultery . (you know what i mean )

No, I don't know what you mean. Bars don't commit adultery and bars aren't places for adultery. Bars are drinking establishments where people meet to drink, dance, sing, and chat with each other.

edited :acuatly rarely we found muslims man drinking , we had almost no one cheating,because adultery in Islam, in the a major sin . and i rarely heard that someone beat his wife .
what about the men in the west ? they just do gay and strip ?

Ok. :sarcastic So Muslim men supposedly don't cheat because it's against Islam? Just like Christian men don't cheat because it's against Christianity? And Muslim men don't beat their wives, but you have admitted yourself that you would beat your wife because you believe that is the Islamic way if she is "insubordinate"? Don't pee on me and tell me it's raining.

And now you talk about men in the west as being what? Gay strippers? WTH man?

 

[Godobeyer]

Godobeyer please read this link fully then let me know your thoughts, it provides very useful information as to how beating a woman is actually contradicting what Allah taught: Qur'anic verse 4:34

Beating his wife?

The verse instructs a husband whose wife causes problems in their marriage to first talk to her about it, then leave the marital bed, then {adriboo} his wife, and all of this in view of pursueing a reconciliation as is evident from the subsequent verse 4:35.

The Arabic word used here, {adriboo}, from the root {d-r-b}, has several dozens of meanings, such as: 'to beat', but also: 'to forsake, to avoid, to leave'.

yeah it's had other meaning (I forget the other meaning ) because it's rarely used ,for my opinion, the required meaning in this case for my opinion is "to beat "
why ?

we will study the verse :
4-34
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and beat them (or to avoid). Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

if we suppse that the meaning is leave them (not beat them) it's mean that God repeat the meaning two times , because banish them to beds apart (mean also leave them alone ) .
the order repeated two times !!!!!
avoid them ,then avoid them !!!!
I guess it's not correct if we reach the sense .only if it's mean leave them in the bed , then in the house ( leave them first in the bed , then in alone house ) in the case it's correct .
I verify the expliantion of Quran (Tafsir) sites in arabic and english , most of the explains confirm it's "soft beat".
Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs -

edited : only God and the very specific arabic languages professors know the true meaning .