Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Drolefille]

and if my fiance(my future wife) accept me to beat her, and accept me to marry other second woman , and she will do anything I want, where is the problem ?

I feel sorry that she doesn't think she deserves better.

Abuse victims are still victims even when they stay with an abuser.

 

[beenie]

i am very happy that you are understand more that verse of Quran

accualty is close to that meaning , but the soft "beat" is worestest solution between all the previous steps that God required to the husband in that problem .
and you right about "reconciliation" is the last step before the divoree , they need to call arbitors from their families .

You will NOT let this go, will you?

I don't know how you considerete the erotic dancing and strip as good image for the woman or bad ,
for the men is the same , this realy digusting for me .

I will disagreed with them if they understand the meaning in wrong way because the translation sometimes is not exactly as the original.
no , I talking about the bars which commit adultery . (you know what i mean )
don't tell that you are in religous state , like Saudi Arabia hhhhhhhhhh

edited :acuatly rarely we found muslims man drinking , we had almost no one cheating,because adultery in Islam, in the a major sin . and i rarely heard that someone beat his wife .
what about the men in the west ? they just do gay and strip ?

Adultery is so underreported over there because the future for a divorced wife with children is probably worse than living with a cheating husband. OR, he'll just marry another woman instead, so he can have two wives.

and if my fiance(my future wife) accept me to beat her, and accept me to marry other second woman , and she will do anything I want, where is the problem ?

I'd feel sorry for her for settling for an abusive, controlling, insecure man. Good luck finding your doormat...er...I mean, wife.

yeah it's had other meaning (I forget the other meaning ) because it's rarely used ,for my opinion, the required meaning in this case for my opinion is "to beat "
why ?

You are free to believe that "beat" is in the Qur'an, and I'm free to NOT.

we will study the verse :
4-34
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and beat them (or to avoid). Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

if we suppse that the meaning is leave them (not beat them) it's mean that God repeat the meaning two times , because banish them to beds apart (mean also leave them alone ) .
the order repeated two times !!!!!
avoid them ,then avoid them !!!!
I guess it's not correct if we reach the sense .only if it's mean leave them in the bed , then in the house ( leave them first in the bed , then in alone house ) in the case it's correct .
I verify the expliantion of Quran (Tafsir) sites in arabic and english , most of the explains confirm it's "soft beat".
Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs -

edited : only God and the very specific arabic languages professors know the true meaning .

There is a difference between separating beds and avoiding altogether. He can leave temporarily or speak to her only when needed...that's avoiding.

 

[gnostic]

yeah it's had other meaning (I forget the other meaning ) because it's rarely used ,for my opinion, the required meaning in this case for my opinion is "to beat "
why ?

we will study the verse :
4-34
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and beat them (or to avoid). Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

if we suppse that the meaning is leave them (not beat them) it's mean that God repeat the meaning two times , because banish them to beds apart (mean also leave them alone ) .
the order repeated two times !!!!!
avoid them ,then avoid them !!!!
I guess it's not correct if we reach the sense .only if it's mean leave them in the bed , then in the house ( leave them first in the bed , then in alone house ) in the case it's correct .
I verify the expliantion of Quran (Tafsir) sites in arabic and english , most of the explains confirm it's "soft beat".
Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs -

edited : only God and the very specific arabic languages professors know the true meaning .

And you don't understand that whatever form of beat you've attempted to interpret from the verse (4:34), it is simply domestic violence and abusive relationship. Love and respect have nothing to do with such marriage; it is simply abusive power and intimidation. That you would guise as "soft" beat, seemed just whitewash to me.

You're lucky you live in Algeria, because if you've lived in Australia and you were my neighbor, I would immediately report you to police, and they can charge and punish you for using violence against your wife. I wouldn't tolerate such crap for a neighbor.

 

[Vinayaka]

There is a difference between separating beds and avoiding altogether. He can leave temporarily or speak to her only when needed...that's avoiding.

Sounds to me like in some cases this wouldn't bu much of a punishment, more like a reward for her.

 

[beenie]

Sounds to me like in some cases this wouldn't bu much of a punishment, more like a reward for her.

LOL So true!

I owe you frubals; I can't get them to work on my phone.

 

[Draka]

LOL So true!

I owe you frubals; I can't get them to work on my phone.

Got it. His point was right on.

 

[Kerr]

and if my fiance(my future wife) accept me to beat her, and accept me to marry other second woman , and she will do anything I want, where is the problem ?

Ever heard of the stockholm syndrome?
Stockholm syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I dont think a wife settling for an abusive husband suffers from it, though. My issue is the line of though that because she is ok with it then it must be ok. Just because someone is ok with being kidnapped doesnt make it right. Or in the case of a wife accepting being beaten, just because she accept it doesnt make it right.

 

[Godobeyer]

I feel sorry that she doesn't think she deserves better.

Abuse victims are still victims even when they stay with an abuser.

for her ,I am her better , i am her lover and her life .

 

[Godobeyer]

And you don't understand that whatever form of beat you've attempted to interpret from the verse (4:34), it is simply domestic violence and abusive relationship. Love and respect have nothing to do with such marriage; it is simply abusive power and intimidation. That you would guise as "soft" beat, seemed just whitewash to me.

You're lucky you live in Algeria, because if you've lived in Australia and you were my neighbor, I would immediately report you to police, and they can charge and punish you for using violence against your wife. I wouldn't tolerate such crap for a neighbor.

look brother , we are discuss a word in verse of Quran , some had understand as "beat" and so other "just leave , avoid "

for me I did not experience the mariage yet ,as i know the mariage is full of problem, some time we resolove this problem softly and sometime the hardly .I don't know if i will marry my wife will puch me to beat her or not .

for the exemple, live in Algeria or Australia , doen't matter because ,here if the woman (wife ) go to hospital and the she make lawsuit against her husband , they will take him to prison .

for my opinion :
not only in Algeria even in USA or Australia (where u live )if anyone "beat soflty" his wife or his girlfriend, or any one , and the people or "SHE" make a lawsuit againt him (the beater) , the police stations will be full all the time .

 

[Godobeyer]

Ever heard of the stockholm syndrome?
Stockholm syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I dont think a wife settling for an abusive husband suffers from it, though. My issue is the line of though that because she is ok with it then it must be ok. Just because someone is ok with being kidnapped doesnt make it right. Or in the case of a wife accepting being beaten, just because she accept it doesnt make it right.

my point is the beat is not especially for men , also i saw some girls beat each other , and some beat boys ...etc
and we cant not generlize the beat is only for muslims men , because i am sure that western men do the same . (we are not perfect)
my question is the relation between , never hit the "beat level " rarely ?
as I see the "beat" is very rarely happen between the couples,because it's is something touch the dignity of the woman or the man .

 

[Godobeyer]

Got it. His point was right on.

by the way you don't answser my question about this

I don't know how you considerete the erotic dancing and strip as good image for the woman or bad ,
for the men is the same , this realy digusting for me .

you reply this

Whatever.

I am not sure about your opinion, for whom dancing erotic and strip (men and women ) is that something touch the dignity of the person ?
did you accept that your mother or your sister or father...etc , dancing erotic or strip ?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

for her ,I am her better , i am her lover and her life .

Then it's no wonder why you think the way you do.

It's misogyny.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's misogyny.

You're so insubordinate.
Draka too.

 

[beenie]

for her ,I am her better , i am her lover and her life .

Oh boy. I can only hope your outlook on what's good for your spouse changes once you find one.

 

[Draka]

by the way you don't answser my question about this


you reply this



I am not sure about your opinion, for whom dancing erotic and strip (men and women ) is that something touch the dignity of the person ?
did you accept that your mother or your sister or father...etc , dancing erotic or strip ?

I didn't answer a question as I didn't see one. I saw you say you didn't know how I could see something a certain way. That's not a question, that's an opinion. However, if you want an answer to your question now, fine.

Dignity is defined within a person. Dignity has to do with self-respect. If a person likes what they do, who they are as a person, are proud of how they compose themselves, and feel they are a worthy and strong individual then they have dignity. It's about liking oneself. Being an erotic dancer or stripper does not mean that one cannot like oneself or respect themselves. My best friend since 4 years old, so close I consider her my actual sister, use to be an erotic dancer. I've had relationships with two male strippers. One was a Chippendale dancer. Their jobs did not define them as a person, they did that.

 

[Revoltingest]

We also have fellow poster Meow Mix, who once danced exotic, yet she is not defined by that at all.
I see her as the resident mirthful physicist.
Her having had that job seems no disgrace whatsoever.
(I could never have even gotten hired for the job.....how big a disgrace is that? I'm so ashamed.)

 

[Draka]

for her ,I am her better , i am her lover and her life .

Can you say narcissism?

A woman deserves better than to be with someone who fancies themselves her "better". She deserves better than to be slapped or otherwise physically punished for whatever transgression he perceives she has done. A woman is a worthy individual who should be respected and treated well. It is not being treated well to be scolded and admonished and slapped and so on. It is degrading. Any woman deserves better than that.

 

[Draka]

You're so insubordinate.
Draka too.

You know it baby! :jam:

 

[MysticSang'ha]

You're so insubordinate.
Draka too.

Insubordinate? No such thing. Just speaking our minds.

Now...annoying? Feisty? Stubborn? Independent? I'll gladly accept those labels.

But personally, I prefer the word "strong." In other words, raise a hand to me, I know how to grab, twist, and pull. And I have nails, too.

 

[Draka]

Insubordinate? No such thing. Just speaking our minds.

Now...annoying? Feisty? Stubborn? Independent? I'll gladly accept those labels.

But personally, I prefer the word "strong." In other words, raise a hand to me, I know how to grab, twist, and pull. And I have nails, too.

I don't have a problem being called "insubordinate" in this thread, because apparently,...insubordinate seems to mean all those things. I will not lay down and let myself be ruled over and "punished" for not "falling in line". I will not do so because I am everything you just said. If that makes me "insubordinate" in the eyes of certain select people here...then I claim the label and wear it with pride.