Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Godobeyer]

so? that still doesn't make wife beating okay dude.

I mean, by your logic, "we" could just say "turn the middle east into glass, they beat their wives", you see? good thing that's not how logic works. if you steal something, it is theft even if someone else is a murderer or worse. etc.

because you can't defend it, you point fingers and say others are doing worse things.

heh, apply that logic to allah, who is complaining about people, none of whom are people into fire to burn there forever: he's clearly the worst of the bunch. still, that's not how logic works, but if it did, it would screw you over that way

I mean that is Nato and Usa armies already killed and still killing the women and children, in many muslim countries .

 

[Blackdog22]

what i can replay ? how you could think in this exemple ?
could you marry a prostitute woman ? :run:

Would you mind responding to my posts Godebeyer? I think they point out a huge potential for constant abuse that is backed up by your, personal, religious beliefs.

I want to be clear that I realize there are many stable Muslims and do not in anyway think this is every Muslims point of view.

 

[Enlighten]

There is a definite "how dare you fight back" line of thought with certain men. When my first husband was throwing me around once and he had a hold of my arms near the shoulders I had tried to throw my arms up inbetween us and push outward to break his grip and in the process I had scratched one of his arms with my fingernails. He had gotten so mad that he picked me up entirely and threw me out of the house and ...get this...called the police ON ME for domestic abuse. He showed them the scratches on his arm and made up some story about me losing my temper and attacking him. I was arrested and sitting in a holding cell before anyone would even bother to look at all the marks on me even though I kept trying to tell the cops what really happened. I sat in jail for 3 days, with no charges on me, and when I was released I returned home to find my husband, his mother, and a friend of his clearing out my daughter's belongings from my home and my daughter nowhere around. He had taken her out of the house and had her hidden. This time I called the cops in. Some men just simply don't care for being stood up to.

I hate that you had to go through that. Glad you stood up for yourself though.

 

[Draka]

It's good you're rid of him.
(Don't get me started on cops.)

Good God.... That bothers me deeply. I can't imagine someone could be that violent towards a girl. I have been as furious as I can imagine with girls before, but have never, ever thought about hurting them at all. I just go take a walk or just come to a point where I say okay lets relax and text each other about how we feel.

I am so sorry that happened. Definitely not a man and definitely glad you are free from that hell hole, and your daughter.

I also don't care much for cops...

Thank you. See, this is also why I have been accused of being biased in this discussion. Thing is, I speak from a "been there" stance. I personally know how it feels to be talked down to, ridiculed, admonished, controlled, and physically abused. I have have been shoved, thrown, kicked, strangled, crushed, bitten, smacked and even threatened with weapons. I know what it is to be abused. I know what even a slap does to the psyche. I know what it feels like to treated as property. To be accused of cheating if I so much as talk to another man. I've been there, I've done that. That is no life to lead. when I speak to Godobeyer and try to explain how that kind of treatment, even in the smallest amount, can damage a woman emotionally and mentally, I speak from experience. It is also why it bothers me so to hear this crap about how a woman loves a man more that slaps her. No. We don't. We fear him more, not love. Big difference.

 

[Godobeyer]

There is a definite "how dare you fight back" line of thought with certain men. When my first husband was throwing me around once and he had a hold of my arms near the shoulders I had tried to throw my arms up inbetween us and push outward to break his grip and in the process I had scratched one of his arms with my fingernails. He had gotten so mad that he picked me up entirely and threw me out of the house and ...get this...called the police ON ME for domestic abuse. He showed them the scratches on his arm and made up some story about me losing my temper and attacking him. I was arrested and sitting in a holding cell before anyone would even bother to look at all the marks on me even though I kept trying to tell the cops what really happened. I sat in jail for 3 days, with no charges on me, and when I was released I returned home to find my husband, his mother, and a friend of his clearing out my daughter's belongings from my home and my daughter nowhere around. He had taken her out of the house and had her hidden. This time I called the cops in. Some men just simply don't care for being stood up to.

thank you for sharing us your experience , the jail !!!!
I am sorry for you .

 

[Godobeyer]

One, just because you don't hear of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen behind closed doors. And two, you, and society where you are, obviously have different definitions of what it is to beat a wife.

no one knows what happened behind doors , but i am sure they make fun sometimes

 

[Draka]

I hate that you had to go through that. Glad you stood up for yourself though.

Thanks hun. By the time I could step up and stand up for myself and get support and help...I had gone through quite a lot. BUT, in the end, I got what I needed. Divorce, restraining order, and full custody with him stripped of parental rights. He walked out of the divorce with a sleeping bag and little radio.

 

[Draka]

thank you for sharing us your experience , the jail !!!!

You think it's funny I went to jail?

I am sorry for you .

If you really were, you would never even think about raising a hand to any potential wife of yours, no matter what.

 

[Godobeyer]

Would you mind responding to my posts Godebeyer? I think they point out a huge potential for constant abuse that is backed up by your, personal, religious beliefs.

I want to be clear that I realize there are many stable Muslims and do not in anyway think this is every Muslims point of view.

acautly i disgree with many Muslims in this forum because that point (beat insubordinate wife) , even most of the scholars Muslims considerate it a soft "beat" .
each one had his opinion .

 

[Blackdog22]

acautly i disgree with many Muslims in this forum because that point (beat insubordinate wife) , even most of the scholars Muslims considerate it a soft "beat" .
each one had his opinion .

Here, I will repost if you don't mind responding to these questions. Also, it has been apparent that your idea of a soft beat is slapping a woman around. If I am wrong about this then feel free to correct me.

I don't know exactly the solution in this case, but for my opinion .
if the man made wrong (first ) with the wife, she have to talk to him and if he did not back to his mind , she need to call her family to resolve this problem .
if not she need to ask him to divorce her .
btw : if she beat him , and he accept that , i don't mind .

Considering that even leaving the house is "insubordinate" to you, would her getting her whole family rallied against you be "insubordinate"? How exactly do you define what is or isn't "insubordinate" since it appears that if she takes almost "any" action outside of the house she is considered "insubordinate".

Now, the fact that you have also been saying that 99.9% of the wives are "subordinate" in your area, are you saying that almost every wife is scared to death of leaving their own house because they maybe beaten? I really hope that 99.9% figure isn't accurate or you are just very, very confused about your belief. Which would also make everyone around you confused about your belief.

My question to the Muslims on this forum is how many of you actually live outside the USA? If this guy is saying 99.9% of woman are "subordinate" and being subordinate means not talking to anyone, touching anyone, not leaving the house, getting tea when told too , and who the hell knows what else. What exactly does that say of the Muslim culture and how should outsiders view this?

My hope is that this person is gravely confused and someone who actually lives outside of the USA, in a Muslim culture, can comment on this. Because it appears he is using his religion as a means of abusing his wife. It also appears that almost everyone he comes into contact with has this belief as well.

Edit: I would also like to add that Godobeyer said that if a wife went to her family and she was found to be "insubordinate" by them, they would also "beat" her. So, if leaving the house is insubordinate, then basically if the dog leaves her cage she gets slapped around by everyone? The whole family joins in and starts slapping her around? Which parts of the Muslim world believe this exactly. Is this an isolated case or how widespread is this apparent mistranslation of texts? Apparently it is pretty widespread where Godobeyer lives.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

for her ,I am her better , i am her lover and her life .

No, you're her abuser and her jailer.

 

[Vinayaka]

No, you're her abuser and her jailer.

Not yet, since he's single.

But Godobeyer, I am curious. we have an expression about apples not falling far from trees. Have you ever witnessed, or did you ever witness your father beating your Mother?

 

[beenie]

There is a definite "how dare you fight back" line of thought with certain men. When my first husband was throwing me around once and he had a hold of my arms near the shoulders I had tried to throw my arms up inbetween us and push outward to break his grip and in the process I had scratched one of his arms with my fingernails. He had gotten so mad that he picked me up entirely and threw me out of the house and ...get this...called the police ON ME for domestic abuse. He showed them the scratches on his arm and made up some story about me losing my temper and attacking him. I was arrested and sitting in a holding cell before anyone would even bother to look at all the marks on me even though I kept trying to tell the cops what really happened. I sat in jail for 3 days, with no charges on me, and when I was released I returned home to find my husband, his mother, and a friend of his clearing out my daughter's belongings from my home and my daughter nowhere around. He had taken her out of the house and had her hidden. This time I called the cops in. Some men just simply don't care for being stood up to.

I'm so sorry to hear this, and I'm even more sorry you had to share this to try and convince Godobeyer that physical and emotional abuse is damaging to people.

I'm glad you got out of that relationship.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm so sorry to hear this, and I'm even more sorry you had to share this to try and convince Godobeyer that physical and emotional abuse is damaging to people.

I'm glad you got out of that relationship.

Yes, Draka, me too. I've never seen it really first hand, just with kids at school. One in particular still resonates. Mom (looking very much the worse for wear, if you get my drift) came to my classroom, asked me to come to the hallway, and said, "I'm pulling Darren. We're going to a safe house in Calgary." I called the boy out, wished them both luck, (they left immediately) and didn't see them again until the following September. Later when he was in Grade 9 and he was on my volleyball team, we had a heart to heart on how his life was going. He basically just said, "Dad won't touch her again, becaus he knows if he did, I'll beat the c... out of him."

 

[Draka]

Yes, Draka, me too. I've never seen it really first hand, just with kids at school. One in particular still resonates. Mom (looking very much the worse for wear, if you get my drift) came to my classroom, asked me to come to the hallway, and said, "I'm pulling Darren. We're going to a safe house in Calgary." I called the boy out, wished them both luck, (they left immediately) and didn't see them again until the following September. Later when he was in Grade 9 and he was on my volleyball team, we had a heart to heart on how his life was going. He basically just said, "Dad won't touch her again, becaus he knows if he did, I'll beat the c... out of him."

That just brought tears to my eyes.

 

[beenie]

Yes, Draka, me too. I've never seen it really first hand, just with kids at school. One in particular still resonates. Mom (looking very much the worse for wear, if you get my drift) came to my classroom, asked me to come to the hallway, and said, "I'm pulling Darren. We're going to a safe house in Calgary." I called the boy out, wished them both luck, (they left immediately) and didn't see them again until the following September. Later when he was in Grade 9 and he was on my volleyball team, we had a heart to heart on how his life was going. He basically just said, "Dad won't touch her again, becaus he knows if he did, I'll beat the c... out of him."

So sad.

 

[Vinayaka]

deleted

 

[Drolefille]

for her ,I am her better , i am her lover and her life .

No, you're her lesser because you try to control with force what you cannot handle with your mind and your tongue.

You're her life because you're her jailer, you lock up her mind and her self and keep her from being her.

what i can replay ? how you could think in this exemple ?
could you marry a prostitute woman ? :run:

I could. But you'd have a problem with that too.

 

[gnostic]

acautly i disgree with many Muslims in this forum because that point (beat insubordinate wife) , even most of the scholars Muslims considerate it a soft "beat" .
each one had his opinion .

You don't get it, do you?

It doesn't matter if you hit (or beat) hard or soft. It is not right for husband to hit his wife under any circumstance. That's what everyone tried to tell you, particularly female members, including ssainhu. I don't think you can ever justify physically assaulting women, including wives.

The idea that husband is the man of the house, and entitled to punish his wife (or wives) because of the disobedience or insubordination, like the way you interpret the Qur'anic verse (4:34), simply showed how archaic, barbaric and misogynistic that particular verse is.

You say you love and respect women, but I don't think you do, if you think you are entitled to wield the power to beat your wife for insubordination. How do you know that you're the one at fault or done wrong.

Punishing her for insubordination just showed how a husband how weak and insecure he is, and doesn't deserve respect from his wife. They are coward and weak-minded. To me they are no better than those who rape or sexually assault women.

 

[JacobEzra.]

What a horrible thread. I never thought I would see someone defend wife beating!