Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Godobeyer]

Please read some Tafseers before posting things like this. It will really help you as well as others understand Islam better, because as it stands, you're just (unwittingly, but still) slandering your own religion.

thank for you advise , but I already read the tafseers brother , I give my opinion ,which is most of the muslims scholars with it .

if you read arabic try this link
http://www.saaid.net/mktarat/alzawaj/121.htm


انا هنا لا اجامل هذا كمن فهم الايه وحرفها عن معنها .... فمن فلنفسه و من كفر فعليها
الاخت لادمين انكرت الطاعة للرجل من طرف الزوجة وهذا مخالف لتعاليم الاسلام
.

 

[JacobEzra.]

prositute is already forbiden , and if a muslim "man" push his wife to prositute for him he is cuckold , in this case she had to refuse and ask him for divorce .
in Islam you don't have the right to push any one to do forbiden act .

But you can push them into doing something that is not forbidden?

Many signs of a weak man, hitting women is a big one

 

[Godobeyer]

But you can push them into doing something that is not forbidden?
Many signs of a weak man, hitting women is a big one

yeah , the wife should obey her husband , that what God ask her , and there is many hadith ordre the wife to obey with respect her husband . as her limite of course .

 

[Enlighten]

yeah , the wife should obey her husband , that what God ask her , and there is many hadith ordre the wife to obey with respect her husband . as her limite of course .

And many to say the husband should treat the wife as equal with respect, not to bring harm, love and protect her Also states that no evil deed should be repayed with evil.

 

[JacobEzra.]

yeah , the wife should obey her husband , that what God ask her , and there is many hadith ordre the wife to obey with respect her husband . as her limite of course .

Lol you must be misinterpreting something, since it seems alot of muslims disagree with your belief in hitting women. But hey, if your god says its okay to hit a women, then he must be weak as well as the man who actually hits a women.

 

[Kerr]

yeah , the wife should obey her husband , that what God ask her , and there is many hadith ordre the wife to obey with respect her husband . as her limite of course .

And if her husband is wrong?

 

[Godobeyer]

Lol you must be misinterpreting something, since it seems alot of muslims disagree with your belief in hitting women. But hey, if your god says its okay to hit a women, then he must be weak as well as the man who actually hits a women.

yeah many Muslims against my view ,but accualty even there is a beat , it's just soft beat (don't harm), not hit or abuse .....etc
especialy some one misunderstand ,some beliefs are looks weird (others religions )
for exemple , if we talking about abuse , as you believe that Jesus (pbuh) die because Adam and Eve SIN , for non-Muslims and Non-chirstains ,it's looks like God abondane and abuse his son because he had no relate with that SIN
for Muslims God resue Jesus (pbuh),and we deny that Jesus (pbuh) killed or abused.

 

[Kerr]

yeah many Muslims against my view ,but accualty even there is a beat , it's just soft beat (don't harm), not hit or abuse .....etc
especialy some one misunderstand ,some beliefs are looks weird (others religions )
for exemple , if we talking about abuse , as you believe that Jesus (pbuh) die because Adam and Eve SIN , for non-Muslims and Non-chirstains ,it's looks like God abondane and abuse his son because he had no relate with that SIN
for Muslims God resue Jesus (pbuh),and we deny that Jesus (pbuh) killed or abused.

Just to point out the obvious, but abuse doesnt require physical harm . I am not sure what you mean by beat, to be honest. Do you mean it as a symbolic gesture, like slapping an *******, or a way for the man to get the woman to agree through force and violence?

 

[Enlighten]

Just to point out the obvious, but abuse doesnt require physical harm . I am not sure what you mean by beat, to be honest. Do you mean it as a symbolic gesture, like slapping as *******, or a way for the man to get the woman to agree through force and violence?

"slap of love" apparently.

 

[Kerr]

"slap of love" apparently.

Just want it clarified . Dont get me wrong, I dont think it should be allowed, but I like to at least understand.

 

[Enlighten]

Just want it clarified . Dont get me wrong, I dont think it should be allowed, but I like to at least understand.

Sorry to bring this up AGAIN, lol, but I think it's very relevant and proves that IF we believe in a "love slap" then it complteley contradicts the Qur'ans teachings: Qur'anic verse 4:34

I just don't see that Godobeyer wants to see reason or listen to his fellow muslims if they don't agree with the "beat issue". I spoke to someone before who stated (sorry forgot the name) that it can also be translated as throwing a napkin/toothbrush at a woman who committed adultery for example, but there seems to be no clear definition of "insubordinate" from Godobeyer, even though I think there is no excuse what-so-ever to have any physical abuse to a woman/man for not being "who you want them to be/act the way you want them to act".

 

[JacobEzra.]

yeah many Muslims against my view ,but accualty even there is a beat , it's just soft beat (don't harm), not hit or abuse .....etc

Excuses, excuses. Weak, wife beating men always have them. There is no difference between hard or "soft beat". And "don't harm"? Of course there is no harm or abuse, when your the one doing the harm and abuse. That is just disgusting and pathetic.

especialy some one misunderstand ,some beliefs are looks weird (others religions )
for exemple , if we talking about abuse , as you believe that Jesus (pbuh) die because Adam and Eve SIN , for non-Muslims and Non-chirstains ,it's looks like God abondane and abuse his son because he had no relate with that SIN
for Muslims God resue Jesus (pbuh),and we deny that Jesus (pbuh) killed or abused.

We are not talking about believe in a Man-God who got crucified for sin. We are not talking about beliving Mohammed is a prophet, or went to Jerusalem on a flying donkey, we are talking about hitting women. Which you use your religion to justify.

With that logic, I must ask. If I was to kill you for being a muslim, and justified it with the Holy Bible, would that make it alright?

 

[Godobeyer]

Sorry to bring this up AGAIN, lol, but I think it's very relevant and proves that IF we believe in a "love slap" then it complteley contradicts the Qur'ans teachings: Qur'anic verse 4:34

I just don't see that Godobeyer wants to see reason or listen to his fellow muslims if they don't agree with the "beat issue". I spoke to someone before who stated (sorry forgot the name) that it can also be translated as throwing a napkin/toothbrush at a woman who committed adultery for example, but there seems to be no clear definition of "insubordinate" from Godobeyer, even though I think there is no excuse what-so-ever to have any physical abuse to a woman/man for not being "who you want them to be/act the way you want them to act".

the definition of insubordinate is on general is disobey to do the rights of her husband or miss treating him (mis respect him ).

 

[Debater Slayer]

thank for you advise , but I already read the tafseers brother , I give my opinion ,which is most of the muslims scholars with it .

if you read arabic try this link
http://www.saaid.net/mktarat/alzawaj/121.htm


انا هنا لا اجامل هذا كمن فهم الايه وحرفها عن معنها .... فمن فلنفسه و من كفر فعليها
الاخت لادمين انكرت الطاعة للرجل من طرف الزوجة وهذا مخالف لتعاليم الاسلام
.

"ضرب غير مبرح"

(تعني صفعة slap)

أخي أنت كنت تحاول تبرير صفع الزوجة فهل هذا تفسيرك للآية؟ ألا يخالف هذا عدم مس الوجه على الإطلاق؟

Slapping is still a no-no. No one, scholar or not, will agree with you on this.

Partially relevant (might help): Est-ce que parles-tu Francais bien (puisque tu es Algerien)?

 

[not nom]

اجامل

hey, I think I know that one! that means "lolz!", right?


(I'm sorry, I'm sorry )

 

[JacobEzra.]

the definition of insubordinate is on general is disobey to do the rights of her husband or miss treating him (mis respect him ).

Godobeyer, will you be addressing my post?

 

[Godobeyer]

"ضرب غير مبرح"

(تعني صفعة slap)

أخي أنت كنت تحاول تبرير صفع الزوجة فهل هذا تفسيرك للآية؟ ألا يخالف هذا عدم مس الوجه على الإطلاق؟

موضوع صفعة الحب هذا هو عبارة عن تجربة انا عشتها لا علاقة لها بوضوع
ضرب الناشز..... صحيح انو هناك حديث ينصح بعدم ضرب الوجة

Slapping is still a no-no. No one, scholar or not, will agree with you on this.

what about box ? ,honestly I am affraid that some couples are doing Karatee .

Partially relevant (might help): Est-ce que parles-tu Francais bien (puisque tu es Algerien)?

si !!! , je parle un peu (pas bien ) le français , parce que je suis Algérienne

 

[Godobeyer]

Excuses, excuses. Weak, wife beating men always have them. There is no difference between hard or "soft beat". And "don't harm"? Of course there is no harm or abuse, when your the one doing the harm and abuse. That is just disgusting and pathetic.

acuatly soft beat is don't harm .
it's disgusting and pathetic for you , for me not .
exactly as you see the strips women normal in the west , i see it's digusting and forbiden in my religions .

We are not talking about believe in a Man-God who got crucified for sin. We are not talking about beliving Mohammed is a prophet, or went to Jerusalem on a flying donkey, we are talking about hitting women. Which you use your religion to justify.

Jesus was not God , I am talking for abuse in general , as I know you blame "EVE" that she was the cause of orginal sin !!!
which Jesus (pbuh) killed because of her sin "as you believe "
In this case Jesus (pbuh) abused because female sin .
acuatly you religion abuse the woman ,because it's the responsible of that sin .

ok can you explain these verse from the bible , which almost order the women to surbordinate to her husband . and make different between the men and women !!!!!

1 Corinthians 14:34 NIV Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law.

1 Corinthians 14:35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the.

11 A woman[[URL="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+2%3A11-12&version=NIV#fen-NIV-29728a"]a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. [/URL]


1 Tm:2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1 Timothy 2:14


14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


Eph:5:22
22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.


Ephesians 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.



Eph:5:24

Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

With that logic, I must ask. If I was to kill you for being a muslim, and justified it with the Holy Bible, would that make it alright?

the killing is other subject . I told you the verses of Quran mention to war statement , (that you would want to post here )

 

[Kerr]

acuatly soft beat is don't harm .
it's disgusting and pathetic for you , for me not .
exactly as you see the strips women normal in the west , i see it's digusting and forbiden in my religions .

Correction, "soft beat" doesnt cause physical harm, but it may cause emotional harm, which is just as bad. It is wrong to use violence to make your partner stand by you even if it does not cause physical harm. Anyone capable of love and compassion should understand that.

Strippers are not strippers because they dont have husbands who slaps them, you know .

 

[Godobeyer]

Correction, "soft beat" doesnt cause physical harm, but it may cause emotional harm, which is just as bad. It is wrong to use violence to make your partner stand by you even if it does not cause physical harm. Anyone capable of love and compassion should understand that.

Strippers are not strippers because they dont have husbands who slaps them, you know .

thank you very much ,yeah , that's what i mean
soft beat or what i called slap of love , it's doesnt cause physical harm , its about emotionnal harm . exaclty as you said .

strippers are strippers because their husbands did not jeoulous for them , they are just we can call them cuckolds .