Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Me Myself]

for her ,I am her better , i am her lover and her life .

That sentence only works when she is your better too.

And if you hit her is ok but she hit you is not ok, then you are clearly not treating her as your better.

Either both of you are each other´s betters or none should be.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Considering that even leaving the house is "insubordinate" to you, would her getting her whole family rallied against you be "insubordinate"? How exactly do you define what is or isn't "insubordinate" since it appears that if she takes almost "any" action outside of the house she is considered "insubordinate".

Now, the fact that you have also been saying that 99.9% of the wives are "subordinate" in your area, are you saying that almost every wife is scared to death of leaving their own house because they maybe beaten? I really hope that 99.9% figure isn't accurate or you are just very, very confused about your belief. Which would also make everyone around you confused about your belief.

My question to the Muslims on this forum is how many of you actually live outside the USA? If this guy is saying 99.9% of woman are "subordinate" and being subordinate means not talking to anyone, touching anyone, not leaving the house, getting tea when told too , and who the hell knows what else. What exactly does that say of the Muslim culture and how should outsiders view this?

My hope is that this person is gravely confused and someone who actually lives outside of the USA, in a Muslim culture, can comment on this. Because it appears he is using his religion as a means of abusing his wife. It also appears that almost everyone he comes into contact with has this belief as well.

Edit: I would also like to add that Godobeyer said that if a wife went to her family and she was found to be "insubordinate" by them, they would also "beat" her. So, if leaving the house is insubordinate, then basically if the dog leaves her cage she gets slapped around by everyone? The whole family joins in and starts slapping her around? Which parts of the Muslim world believe this exactly. Is this an isolated case or how widespread is this apparent mistranslation of texts? Apparently it is pretty widespread where Godobeyer lives.

Being a Muslim from the Middle East (Egypt, to be specific), no, most people here (thankfully) don't think the same way as GodObeyer does.

However, as is evident, these kinds of mistranslations aren't nonexistent either, but I think they're not responsible for most cases of domestic violence. Lack of education and personal tendencies towards violence are what I think should be blamed the most.

 

[Revoltingest]

Being a Muslim from the Middle East (Egypt, to be specific), no, most people here (thankfully) don't think the same way as GodObeyer does.

Good news!

 

[A-ManESL]

Being a Muslim from the Middle East (Egypt, to be specific), no, most people here (thankfully) don't think the same way as GodObeyer does.

Neither do most Muslims in India.

 

[Blackdog22]

Being a Muslim from the Middle East (Egypt, to be specific), no, most people here (thankfully) don't think the same way as GodObeyer does.

However, as is evident, these kinds of mistranslations aren't nonexistent either, but I think they're not responsible for most cases of domestic violence. Lack of education and personal tendencies towards violence are what I think should be blamed the most.

Yeah, that is very good news. Thank you for responding, I didn't think this was the case, but wanted to hear from another source outside of GodObeyer.

Also, with your second paragraph, I have wondered that as well, If people use religion to back their violence up, but would be violent even if no religion existed. So they are using it almost as an excuse for their personal inadequacy as human beings to treat other people with respect.

Then one side of me wonders if GodObeyer may have evolved past this kind of thinking, and those around him, if the religion hadn't consistently, in their minds, backed this idea up. Since it is from "God" and you can't speak out against "him", I wonder if someone in his area would of spoken up by now? Perhaps a woman?

Neither do most Muslims in India.

Also, good to hear.

 

[Drolefille]

Yeah, that is very good news. Thank you for responding, I didn't think this was the case, but wanted to hear from another source outside of GodObeyer.

Also, with your second paragraph, I have wondered that as well, If people use religion to back their violence up, but would be violent even if no religion existed. So they are using it almost as an excuse for their personal inadequacy as human beings to treat other people with respect.

Then one side of me wonders if GodObeyer may have evolved past this kind of thinking, and those around him, if the religion hadn't consistently, in their minds, backed this idea up. Since it is from "God" and you can't speak out against "him", I wonder if someone in his area would of spoken up by now? Perhaps a woman?

Also, good to hear.

I think misogyny thrives with or without religion. Plenty of scientists came up with reasons physiological and psychological why women were lesser than men. Whether they were motivated by religious belief is obviously less clear, but it takes more than one woman speaking up to change a whole culture. Odds are that in many homes the man doesn't dare lay a hand on his wife because of her not some threat from her family. In many others he'd never think of it. But to change the cultural acceptance, it will take the women being able to stand up publicly and then the men actually listening rather than beating them down.

But abusers justify their violence in whatever way they can. Religion or no.

 

[Blackdog22]

I think misogyny thrives with or without religion. Plenty of scientists came up with reasons physiological and psychological why women were lesser than men. Whether they were motivated by religious belief is obviously less clear, but it takes more than one woman speaking up to change a whole culture. Odds are that in many homes the man doesn't dare lay a hand on his wife because of her not some threat from her family. In many others he'd never think of it. But to change the cultural acceptance, it will take the women being able to stand up publicly and then the men actually listening rather than beating them down.

But abusers justify their violence in whatever way they can. Religion or no.

Yeah, I agree. I think our past has definitely shown us that. It was just a thought of ifs. I just wonder how much religion is hindering us. We do have examples of the dark ages, but that is for another topic.

As far as women are concerned, yeah I think people will justify them being weak, despite religion, if the culture allows for it.

 

[Enlighten]

Thanks hun. By the time I could step up and stand up for myself and get support and help...I had gone through quite a lot. BUT, in the end, I got what I needed. Divorce, restraining order, and full custody with him stripped of parental rights. He walked out of the divorce with a sleeping bag and little radio.

I watched my friend go through something similar so I can understand to a certain extent what you have gone through, of course, it is very different going through it yourself so I cannot commend you enough for standing up to him. If you ask me he got too much by getting the sleeping bag and radio. But at least now you and the children are safe, that is the main thing.

 

[Enlighten]

Yes, Draka, me too. I've never seen it really first hand, just with kids at school. One in particular still resonates. Mom (looking very much the worse for wear, if you get my drift) came to my classroom, asked me to come to the hallway, and said, "I'm pulling Darren. We're going to a safe house in Calgary." I called the boy out, wished them both luck, (they left immediately) and didn't see them again until the following September. Later when he was in Grade 9 and he was on my volleyball team, we had a heart to heart on how his life was going. He basically just said, "Dad won't touch her again, becaus he knows if he did, I'll beat the c... out of him."

This is so uspsetting that so many women go through this. I sincerely hope that Godobeyer reads these experiences and comes to his senses.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

what i can replay ? how you could think in this exemple ?
could you marry a prostitute woman ? :run:

Well, let's say I needed some extra money. Here in the west, we all need to have expensive houses and cars, and wear expensive clothes, so sometimes we need to make some extra cash. An easy way to do this is to prostitute your wife out. I mean, since our wives are already sluts who sleep with any men they look at, we might as well be getting paid for it, right? Anyway, let's say I tell her to go out and be a prositute and she refuses - she is being insubordinate, so I can beat her until she shapes up. But, if she does do what I say, and she sleeps with another man for money, is she still being insubordinate? Tell me what god says about this.

 

[Debater Slayer]

This has to be one of the most drawn-out debates I've ever seen.

GodObeyer, if you really believe what you're saying or that Islam condones what you're doing, there's no point arguing about it here. No one will agree with you, not even fellow Muslims.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think this thread has already gone on ten pages too long.

 

[Enlighten]

This has to be one of the most drawn-out debates I've ever seen.

GodObeyer, if you really believe what you're saying or that Islam condones what you're doing, there's no point arguing about it here. No one will agree with you, not even fellow Muslims.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think this thread has already gone on ten pages too long.

I agree that it's going to be very hard to find someone to agree with him, but if everyone gave up and walked away from trying to make him see sense then I'm afraid that is another potential victim out there waiting to meet him.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I agree that it's going to be very hard to find someone to agree with him, but if everyone gave up and walked away from trying to make him see sense then I'm afraid that is another potential victim out there waiting to meet him.

Even if we continue arguing with him, what difference will it make? It's not like he thinks it's wrong or disrespectful.

 

[Enlighten]

Even if we continue arguing with him, what difference will it make? It's not like he thinks it's wrong or disrespectful.

I guess I live in hope that one day someone will say something that will get through to him and save someone from "love slaps" in the future.

I do understand where you are coming from though with your post, so I agree you weren't being harsh. I have tried to walk away a few times from the thread then something else comes into the mix which draws me back as I find it unsettling. Not to mention the view he has of the west from movies.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I guess I live in hope that one day someone will say something that will get through to him and save someone from "love slaps" in the future.

I do understand where you are coming from though with your post, so I agree you weren't being harsh. I have tried to walk away a few times from the thread then something else comes into the mix which draws me back as I find it unsettling. Not to mention the view he has of the west from movies.

Agreed. I can only hope to dissuade him from slapping a future wife for being "insubordinate", and I like to think I'm not aiming too high.

What upsets me the most is how he's involving religion into it. It is for this reason that stereotypes exist.

 

[Enlighten]

Agreed. I can only hope to dissuade him from slapping a future wife for being "insubordinate", and I like to think I'm not aiming too high.

What upsets me the most is how he's involving religion into it. It is for this reason that stereotypes exist.

I don't like the fact that religion is being used as the excuse either, hence took steps to look into what the Qur'an actually says as well as listening to those of you who know your faith. You are right, it creates a steriotype which in turn can cause hatred toward certain religions, but thankfully everyone on this thread can see that these acts are not teachings condoned within Islam.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't like the fact that religion is being used as the excuse either, hence took steps to look into what the Qur'an actually says as well as listening to those of you who know your faith. You are right, it creates a steriotype which in turn can cause hatred toward certain religions, but thankfully everyone on this thread can see that these acts are not teachings condoned within Islam.

I see that religious scriptures can be interpreted any number of ways, and can be used to rationalize nearly any type of behavior.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I guess you know how they living.
and it's shame and forbiden to us, to post any thing about here .

as you see people ,it's seems that she always avoid to comment/reply for this verse

I had a short question and please avoid long answser , are you against this verse or with it ?

الرجال قوامون على النساء بما فضل الله بعضهم على بعض وبما انفقوا من اموالهم فالصالحات قانتات حافظات للغيب بما حفظ الله واللاتي تخافون نشوزهن فعظوهن واهجروهن في المضاجع واضربوهن فان اطعنكم فلا تبغوا عليهن سبيلا ان الله كان عليا كبيرا

Please read some Tafseers before posting things like this. It will really help you as well as others understand Islam better, because as it stands, you're just (unwittingly, but still) slandering your own religion.

 

[Enlighten]

I see that religious scriptures can be interpreted any number of ways, and can be used to rationalize nearly any type of behavior.

This is the danger of using it to justify actions rather than taking a common sense approach. To use this thread topic as an example, if I believed in God/Allah then why on earth would he tell me/you it's perfectly fine to abuse another person? It just makes no sense. I don't mind people being religious, infact I at times admire their faith being so strong without concrete evidence, but to use it for personal gain against or to be superior over another person, to me is just plain wrong.

Edit: it's the minority in my eyes that give religions a bad name by doing just that.

 

[Godobeyer]

Well, let's say I needed some extra money. Here in the west, we all need to have expensive houses and cars, and wear expensive clothes, so sometimes we need to make some extra cash. An easy way to do this is to prostitute your wife out. I mean, since our wives are already sluts who sleep with any men they look at, we might as well be getting paid for it, right? Anyway, let's say I tell her to go out and be a prositute and she refuses - she is being insubordinate, so I can beat her until she shapes up. But, if she does do what I say, and she sleeps with another man for money, is she still being insubordinate? Tell me what god says about this.

prositute is already forbiden , and if a muslim "man" push his wife to prositute for him he is cuckold , in this case she had to refuse and ask him for divorce .
in Islam you don't have the right to push any one to do forbiden act .