Muslims, would this stop terrorist attacks from fundamentalists?

[outhouse]

you cannot find a single credible source to support

You already posted a source that claimed Waraka first, as a possible explanation.

Also this 'Christian priest' may or may not have actually existed as he is only known through the Islamic tradition

The same exact traditions used in muhammads historicity

 

[outhouse]

You are just making things up now, and have gone from wild speculation into 'fan fiction'.

false again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waraka_ibn_Nawfal

It is said that in 576 Waraka found a lost five-year-old boy wandering around Upper Mecca. This was Muhammad; and it was Waraka who returned him to his grandfather Abdul Muttalib in the Kaaba


Does not say he returned him a few years later, or a week later or a month.

Either way it places a man called muhammad who was a collector of plagiarized biblical Arabic text, with a man who wrote heretical biblical text in Arabic.

Like it or not muhammad started passing off a heretical Arabic version of biblical text.

 

[Augustus]

You already posted a source that claimed Waraka first, as a possible explanation.

You mean the Bowering article; the one that says "To sum up, [the Waraqa theory] is highly speculative and poorly documented".

This is the problem of your refusal to read anything on the subject, you just don't understand the complexity so you want a simple solution. Then you take something out of context and pretend it supports your theory without bothering to read the article to see if it actually does.

The same exact traditions used in muhammads historicity

You are placing absolute faith in traditions that are more certain that the moon was split in 2 than they are on any aspect of Waraqa's life. You are basing your entire argument on these, and arbitrarily rejecting academic opinions that disagree with you because you want a nice easy concept that you can use in your polemics against Islam.

Does not say he returned him a few years later, or a week later or a month.

So just because it doesn't say 'returned him after 30 minutes' you have interpreted that as meaning 'raised'? As I said, 'fan fiction'.

Either way it places a man called muhammad who was a collector of plagiarized biblical Arabic text, with a man who wrote heretical biblical text in Arabic.

According to the traditions (which don't agree), it puts a 5 year old with someone of uncertain religion who may possibly have written some of the Bible in Hebrew or Syriac or Arabic (they disagree).

Which scholars describe him as 'a collector of plagiarised Biblical Arabic Text' by the way? (answer is none)

How can you repeatedly mock others for 'rejecting academia' when you are so virulently anti-academic yourself?

 

[outhouse]

You are placing absolute faith in traditions

The same exact traditions used in muhammads historicity

Not only that we know biased muslims wrote this history. The last thing they would ever record is something that went against the faith.

So we can take what they wrote, in cases like this and multiply it by ten.

 

[outhouse]

Its funny this boy muhammad lived within walking distance of a 5 years old, from a man perverting biblical text in Arabic .

And when muhanmad grows up is passing off copied biblical mythology in Arabic to others using a sword to sell his new message.

 

[muhammad_isa]

And when muhanmad grows up..

You are the one that needs to grow up! Billions of people think otherwise. God is great! You can't stop what He has decreed.
..eevn if you kill us all, it won't stop our belief, it will just bring the end of the world

If that makes us all stupid, then so be it..
What's stupid about remembering God? What's wrong with avoiding fornication and adultery?
What's wrong with wishing for others that which you wish for yourself?

You are responsible for yourself, not for me

 

[outhouse]

up! Billions of people think otherwise

Billions of people are uneducated

 

[muhammad_isa]

Billions of people are uneducated

Yeah .. that goes for religious and non-religious alike!

However, there is now an increasing number of Muslims in the west who have a good education and graduate. Many Muslim countries are also becoming more prosperous.

If it makes them proud and big-headed they would be better off without it

Almighty God is generous to the humble, the meek

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

What's an esquire?

Bro, I don't memorize the whole Quran. You want me to read it all to find out about something that's been sent from my early Muslim ancestors of Makkah, the birth place of Islam, that we know for sure?

And, are you trying to make yourself an enemy to me or something?

By the way, I'm a native from Makkah and I inherited my Islamic practices from my ancestors, not from Saudi Arabia, which is like just ~111 years old or something?

Why don't just tell us already who is the enemy? With proof please.

What's an esquire?

Bro, I don't memorize the whole Quran. You want me to read it all to find out about something that's been sent from my early Muslim ancestors of Makkah, the birth place of Islam, that we know for sure?

And, are you trying to make yourself an enemy to me or something?

By the way, I'm a native from Makkah and I inherited my Islamic practices from my ancestors, not from Saudi Arabia, which is like just ~111 years old or something?

Why don't just tell us already who is the enemy? With proof please.That the enemy of God, they are unbelievers
And unbelievers word include all the peoples who does not believe in Islam and his Mohammedia

Who was an enemy of God and his angels and messengers and Gabriel and Michael, God is the enemy of the unbelievers) (Al-Baqarah: 98)
Muhammad and the Apostles meant only
Because the mandate of the Special fighting in the Jews and the Christians also considered them to be unbelievers
So the infidels and atheists, Christians, Jews, Hindus and follow the Buddha enemies of God
This is the concept of those words from the Koran, which is trying to hide from the world
That force is prepared until you fight the enemies of God
But it is also right that the world Aharbakm
Because the eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth

 

[Smart_Guy]

Who was an enemy of God and his angels and messengers and Gabriel and Michael, God is the enemy of the unbelievers) (Al-Baqarah: 98)
Muhammad and the Apostles meant only
Because the mandate of the Special fighting in the Jews and the Christians also considered them to be unbelievers
So the infidels and atheists, Christians, Jews, Hindus and follow the Buddha enemies of God
This is the concept of those words from the Koran, which is trying to hide from the world
That force is prepared until you fight the enemies of God
But it is also right that the world Aharbakm
Because the eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth

I can't see any proof about what the enemy is here; the description of what an enemy is!

All you provided is a verse that says the enemy, without describing them, of this and that, God will be their enemy.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I think respecting each other's beliefs would do more for world peace than demonising each other's beliefs.

 

[jeager106]

I counted only 3 or 4 major "denominations" in Islam.
The difference between these are slight.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I counted only 3 or 4 major "denominations" in Islam.
The difference between these are slight.

I agree with you that the majority of Muslims are orthodox with the common foundation of:
"There is no god except Jehovah/Allah, and Muhammad is a messenger of God"

..and then there's the five pillars .. Kalima(as above), 5 times a day worship, fasting in month of ramadan (during daylight), Zakat (wealth tax) and Haj (pilgrimage to Macca once in a life time)

 

[outhouse]

I counted only 3 or 4 major "denominations" in Islam.
The difference between these are slight.

Yet do they not murder each other over sectarian differences???

 

[jeager106]

They DO commit murder over differences in Islam.
Christians here don't do that.
In the distant past Christians were at war with different different Christians but
they seem to have matured into mutual tolerance.
I don't hear of Catholics killing Baptists etc.
If Islamist's want to kill other Islamist's in the name of Allah who am I to
mourn??????
If Islamist's want to murder Christians because of religion that's where we ALL
need to draw the line and fight back with reckless abandon!!!! :>(

 

[jeager106]

I have no idea what it will take to stop the murders within Islam or Islamist murdering
Christians.
Seems murdering others is in the Koran somewhere.
Never read the filthy book myself.
I want NOTHING to do with a religion or it's "god" that allows outright "holy" murder
under the guise of obeying some mindless "god" invented by some Arab living
alone in a cave in the 7th century.
Cheesh.
Christians are permitted to use deadly force ONLY necessary for self defense.
War is up to the individual Christian to engage or not.
If it were a matter of preserving our National heritage which is RELIGIOUS FREEDOM
I'd gladly fight for that.

 

[outhouse]

Never read the filthy book myself.

Not cool.

While I find no value in it what so ever, it can be a positive influence when read properly, or taught properly.

People used to follow the book IMHO in a better light a thousand years ago when islam was the scientific center of the world for education and knowledge.

They were not s zealous then, but it is not the books fault

 

[Corthos]

They DO commit murder over differences in Islam.
Christians here don't do that.
In the distant past Christians were at war with different different Christians but
they seem to have matured into mutual tolerance.
I don't hear of Catholics killing Baptists etc.
If Islamist's want to kill other Islamist's in the name of Allah who am I to
mourn??????
If Islamist's want to murder Christians because of religion that's where we ALL
need to draw the line and fight back with reckless abandon!!!! :>(

I have no idea what it will take to stop the murders within Islam or Islamist murdering
Christians.
Seems murdering others is in the Koran somewhere.
Never read the filthy book myself.
I want NOTHING to do with a religion or it's "god" that allows outright "holy" murder
under the guise of obeying some mindless "god" invented by some Arab living
alone in a cave in the 7th century.
Cheesh.
Christians are permitted to use deadly force ONLY necessary for self defense.
War is up to the individual Christian to engage or not.
If it were a matter of preserving our National heritage which is RELIGIOUS FREEDOM
I'd gladly fight for that.

Why do we ALL need to draw the line at the murder of Christians specifically (and not Yazidis, Jews, atheists, or innocent Muslims)?... It seems to me that the line should be drawn at murder in general. =/ Also, when you say "Islamist," do you mean extremist, or Muslims in general?

Where I live, the indigenous people have all but lost their culture because of the Christian boarding schools that punished (with beatings) the children whenever they spoke in their native language, spoke of things regarding their culture, or practiced their "pagan superstitions" (religion). This started in the 1880s, and didn't stop until about 60 years ago... Many of the different Salishan languages/dialects are now either extinct, or are facing extinction because of that; that's just one of the after effects that cultural genocide has had on them...

That is one recent example of evil committed in the name of Christianity and promoting God's word; one wouldn't need to dig deep to find more. Nothing against Christians (I was raised one, after all), but many terrible things have been done, and are still being done because of the way people interpret/follow the Bible. =/

It's true that there are horrible things being done in the name of Islam right now (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/), and that extremism/fundamentalism in Islam is spreading, but the situation is a little deeper than what you imply. =/

 

[jeager106]

Good points Carthos.
About Islam sanctifying beheadings for the faint of heart that just can't accept
the animalistic behavior of sub-humans in the name of some "god".
Quran 8:12, which says, "When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."

And so they DO. Just watch the news and see for yourself or stay in DENIAL
which is NOT a river in Africa. :>)

 

[muhammad_isa]

They DO commit murder over differences in Islam.
Christians here don't do that.

Yeah, yeah .. and black people are good and white people are evil etc. etc.

War is usually about wealth & power .. I mean, why should people kill each other because they believe in praying or not?
Now .. if one group of people are very rich, and another very poor, that would do it!