My "Christian" friends

[Jose Fly]

If that's the issue, then why not address it directly. Have you told them how you feel about what they're doing? If they're really your friends, they should respect this.

That's where I think I'm headed. In the past, I've been able to fend it off by explaining my reasons and thinking on the subject, which usually causes them to let it go. I tend to be pretty direct anyways, and I don't shrink from debate.

Also, from what I gather, Lutherans are monergists, so unless I'm missing something, it's not like they should really think that they could do anything to cause your salvation anyhow.

Yeah, I'm not sure what their views are on that. They usually get the last word in by saying, "Well, we'll keep praying for you", which always makes me laugh (out loud).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yeah, I'm not sure what their views are on that. They usually get the last word in by saying, "Well, we'll keep praying for you", which always makes me laugh (out loud).

Robert Ingersoll would respond to "I'll pray for you" with "I forgive you". I see a lot of appeal in that approach.

 

[Jose Fly]

Then I think a polite, but direct request to cease and desist is in order rather than initiating further discussion by challenging them.

I agree. But I have a feeling it won't stop there. One of the more recent times one of these guys started in, I rolled my eyes and groaned, "This again? Come on.", which led to a whole thing about how they loved me and cared about me.

That's an awkward place to be.

 

[Jose Fly]

Robert Ingersoll would respond to "I'll pray for you" with "I forgive you". I see a lot of appeal in that approach.

LOL! I like that. In the past I've responded with a wink and "Yeah...good luck with that."

 

[Songbird]

Jose,

Well it seems your question has been answered, but I'll add my two cents.

What you listed as sins many Christians don't regard as such, though maybe regarded as not healthy or productive.

Being saved is about the afterlife, not about anything now.

 

[ChristineES]

LOL! I like that. In the past I've responded with a wink and "Yeah...good luck with that."

Even I, as a Christian, have trouble with that one. I don't think I need to forgive someone if they didn't do anything to me personally and they only apologize to those they have harmed. (for example, "the governator"(Arnold Schwarzenegger) didn't do anything to me, but to his wife and kids- they are the only ones he needs to apologize to).

 

[Man of Faith]

Jesus did turn water into wine, after all.

I must respond to this. Wine back in the day was necessary for your stomach. They didn't have the medicines that we have today. Yes Jesus drank wine and technically it isn't a sin to drink a glass of wine. However I don't know of anyone, besides Jesus that drinks that doesn't get drunk every now and then and that is a sin. So it is best for me to avoid it all together.

And if I want to be closer to God and please him I shouldn't drink, like John the Baptist didn't. "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't think that this behavior is going to change, unfortunately.

If it really bothers you, best thing to do is either go to church or find new friends.

 

[Jose Fly]

What you listed as sins many Christians don't regard as such, though maybe regarded as not healthy or productive.

Being saved is about the afterlife, not about anything now.

As I said before, then that means I'm not a sinner. I don't do anything they don't do. Therefore, there is nothing to save me from.

 

[Jose Fly]

Even I, as a Christian, have trouble with that one. I don't think I need to forgive someone if they didn't do anything to me personally and they only apologize to those they have harmed. (for example, "the governator"(Arnold Schwarzenegger) didn't do anything to me, but to his wife and kids- they are the only ones he needs to apologize to).

I don't understand what you mean. You have trouble with what?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Even I, as a Christian, have trouble with that one. I don't think I need to forgive someone if they didn't do anything to me personally and they only apologize to those they have harmed. (for example, "the governator"(Arnold Schwarzenegger) didn't do anything to me, but to his wife and kids- they are the only ones he needs to apologize to).

If one takes "I'll pray for you" to mean "I won't do anything to actually help you but I'll try to make myself feel better about the state you're in", then I think "I forgive you" is an appropriate response.

 

[ChristineES]

I don't understand what you mean. You have trouble with what?

People saying "I forgive you" when they think you do something wrong and when they are not any better themselves. That's all.

 

[Jose Fly]

I don't think that this behavior is going to change, unfortunately.

If it really bothers you, best thing to do is either go to church or find new friends.

I guess we'll see. I imagine if it comes down to me saying quite forcefully, "All right, enough is enough!! I've told you how I feel about this stuff, but you just keep at it. If you're going to keep doing this, I'm not hanging out with you guys anymore. All right?", I probably won't be invited to as many outings as now.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't think that this behavior is going to change, unfortunately.

If it really bothers you, best thing to do is either go to church or find new friends.

Or... join your local chapter of CFI or the like, and suggest a quid-pro-quo arrangement: you'll go to church with them if they go to your secular/atheist meetings.

Then, you've got a handy response when they ask you: "Sure, I'll go! Just as soon as you go with me to my thing!"

 

[Songbird]

As I said before, then that means I'm not a sinner. I don't do anything they don't do. Therefore, there is nothing to save me from.

Simply being born makes you a sinner. Nothing to do bout that except accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and yada, etc.

 

[Jose Fly]

People saying "I forgive you" when they think you do something wrong and when they are not any better themselves. That's all.

Oh, I see. Maybe I should answer, "And I'll keep praying that one day you'll abandon this goofy, illogical belief system and step into the rational world"?

 

[Jose Fly]

Simply being born makes you a sinner. Nothing to do bout that except accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and yada, etc.

And I've also thought about being like, "Ok, give me a second.......<closes eyes>........<opens eyes>.....There! I've accepted Jesus as my savior. Now, pass me a beer and deal the cards!!"

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Oh, I see. Maybe I should answer, "And I'll keep praying that one day you'll abandon this goofy, illogical belief system and step into the rational world"?

IIRC, I stopped getting invited to church around the same time I started referring to it as "Sunday Morning God Club".

 

[InChrist]

So here's something that's been on my mind the last week or so....

I have a group of guy friends, all roughly in their 30's to early 40's. We're all married and have kids about the same age and our wives are all good friends. We all get together fairly often, and semi-regularly the guys all get together and do stuff. However, I'm the only non-Christian in the group. Most of the guys work in one manner or another at the church they all go to, with one of them even being a junior pastor (or something like that).

So every once in a while, when we're out doing something one of the guys will do the "You should come to church" thing. Sometimes that's all there is to it, other times it eventually turns into full-blown proselytization. Since I've known these guys for years, I've never had any trouble letting them know how I feel about Christianity and to their credit, it's never gotten heated or anything.

However, recently I've been wondering something....are these guys actually Christians? With the exception of going to church and taking communion, they don't live any different than me. They drink (and get drunk), swear, gamble, watch R-rated movies, comment on women, smoke, and generally do whatever they want. So I'm wondering, what exactly are they trying to convert me to? What exactly am I in need of saving from? It seems to me, their version of "Christianity" is do whatever you like, make no attempt at all to stay away from sin, and once a week say the magic words, drink the magic wine, and eat the magic cracker and it's all good.

So the next time I get asked about going to church or getting "saved", I'm seriously thinking about answering with "Why? What exactly am I being saved from?", and pointing out all the above.

Thoughts?

This is a very interesting thread, especially reading all the comments by non-believers and atheists. I think it is pretty common now to see or know people who claim to be Christians, but act and live like everyone else. Many churches now are seeker-friendly, social clubs and teach only a feel-good message. It may be preached that Jesus is one's ticket to heaven, but other than that He makes little difference in one;s life. Non-Christians have no trouble seeing the hypocrisy of this.

I don't think you can always judge whether a person is a real Christian by their behavior at any given moment because true Christianity is not about keeping a set of rules. But seeing on-going questionable behavior does and should cause one to wonder because a real relationship with Jesus Christ transforms a person's life.

If you have seen consistent behavior in your friends over a long period of time that makes you question what difference Jesus makes in their lives I think asking your questions is definitely valid. Maybe your questions will cause them to look more closely at whether or not they really are living for Christ or self. Maybe your questions will even be used by God to get them "saved" if they are not already.

 

[Songbird]

And I've also thought about being like, "Ok, give me a second.......<closes eyes>........<opens eyes>.....There! I've accepted Jesus as my savior. Now, pass me a beer and deal the cards!!"

That might work. All some of my friends really want to know is if I believe Jesus died for me. That's a hard one....I refer them to Robbie Williams.

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