My "Christian" friends

[tarekabdo12]

My last post was only a report, of what other Muslims say of their faith.

Your last post speaks well of you and your faith.

I prefer your approach.

Peace.

Thank u . u can ask me about anything u want.

 

[waitasec]

there was this pub and I cringed. He said "lets go in there" and I said okay. Boy did I feel out of place and fearful of the demons in there. I made it through though.

i thought faith was supposed to end fear, looks like faith enables it instead...

 

[blackout]

i thought faith was supposed to end fear, looks like faith enables it instead...

Belief that demons are all over the place
trying to get you,
creates fear,
or anxiety
where there should be none,
in normal, every-day non anxiety producing situations.

Then you need a god fix
to counter it,
so you can relax,
and feel ok,
safe and peaceful again.

It's kind of like cigarettes.
Self inflicted anxiety.
Self imagined anxiety cure.

 

[waitasec]

Belief that demons are all over the place
trying to get you,
creates fear,
or anxiety
where there should be none,
in normal, every-day non anxiety producing situations.

Then you need a god fix
to counter it,
so you can relax,
and feel ok,
safe and peaceful again.

It's kind of like cigarettes.
Self inflicted anxiety.
Self imagined anxiety cure.

but isn't faith THE fix...the fix to end all fixes?

 

[blackout]

but isn't faith THE fix...the fix to end all fixes?

People feel the same way about their cigarettes.:cover:

Just see what happens when they don't have them.

 

[smoothcriminal12]

Smoking, drinking, swearing, R-rated movies....to each their own, I guess.

 

[Muffled]

Is not your primary sin that you do not love your neighbor or God? That is what you need to be saved from. It appears to me that your friends love you or they wouldn't invite you. It appears that they love God because they go to a place where God is worshipped.

 

[Kathryn]

I've had those experiences too, but not with these guys. Actually, in one of the more recent attempts to talk to me about Jesus, I was very clear that I thought the entire belief system is nonsense. They didn't take offense to it at all.

But I'm wondering what might happen if I turn the conversation back on them and their behavior and ask, "How exactly are you a Christian?"

Personally, I think this is an excellent idea.

As a Christian, my beliefs should be apparent in my lifestyle. Now - this doesn't mean that I don't have fun - that I don't ever drink or watch an R rated movie. (After all, "Schindler's List" and "Saving Private Ryan" are R rated).

My lifestyle is not legalistic, because my faith is not legalistic. However, if my faith isn't evidenced by my love for others, my tolerance, my kindness, my grace toward them - as well as a balanced, healthy life in general - then I don't really have much to show for my professed faith.

Your friends should be able to answer the question. If not, it's great that you brought it up regardless, because they need to think hard about what their own faith really means to them and how it manifests itself in their life.

That being said, as a Christian, I don't really think that drinking moderately, watching some R rated movies, even some cursing, is necessarily wrong. What's wrong with saying "Damn" or "Hell" or something like that? What's wrong with drinking a glass of wine or two in the evenings or at a party? You know?

My faith is manifested in my relationships and in what I give back to my community and to others. Could this be the case with your friends? Do they derive a sense of community and strength and joy from their church and do they want to share this with you? Maybe they aren't trying to CONVERT you, but simply trying to share another part of their life which brings them joy.

 

[Kathryn]

My intent is not to judge these guys. If what you suggest happens, and they no longer drink, smoke, curse, gamble, and see R-rated movies, then we won't have anything to do together.

Hey, just saw this one. What's wrong with gambling?

My husband and I "go to the boats" a couple of times a year. We never take more than $100 each and when it's gone, it's gone. We have a nice evening together, dress sharp, have a nice dinner and a couple of martinis, and then go back to the room and ...well, I'll stop there.

As Christians, are we not allowed to do this? If so, I missed that memo.

 

[Kathryn]

My husband is a Christian. He also smokes. He is addicted, plain and simple. He was a wild man for many, many years - if the worse he does now is smoke, I'll count myself as very lucky!

Is it a SIN for him to smoke? Probably so, but I also know, and God also knows, that he HATES smoking and has tried to quit repeatedly, as late in fact as this past weekend.

It's not that he expects God to look the other way. He knows smoking is harmful and wrong on several different levels. But God doesn't expect us to be perfect. He just expects us to STRIVE to do better.

My husband's life is so much more balanced and healthy than it was when he lived outside of faith. Honestly, he has come so far - and he couldn't have done it without his faith.

God knows his heart. It's between him and God.

For the record, he doesn't smoke much around other people. He knows it is not a good example to set. I wish he would stop but my heart goes out to him - I know what a struggle it is. If I can love him in spite of his smoking, I know God can!

 

[Pegg]

So here's something that's been on my mind the last week or so....

I have a group of guy friends, all roughly in their 30's to early 40's. We're all married and have kids about the same age and our wives are all good friends. We all get together fairly often, and semi-regularly the guys all get together and do stuff. However, I'm the only non-Christian in the group. Most of the guys work in one manner or another at the church they all go to, with one of them even being a junior pastor (or something like that).

So every once in a while, when we're out doing something one of the guys will do the "You should come to church" thing. Sometimes that's all there is to it, other times it eventually turns into full-blown proselytization. Since I've known these guys for years, I've never had any trouble letting them know how I feel about Christianity and to their credit, it's never gotten heated or anything.

However, recently I've been wondering something....are these guys actually Christians? With the exception of going to church and taking communion, they don't live any different than me. They drink (and get drunk), swear, gamble, watch R-rated movies, comment on women, smoke, and generally do whatever they want. So I'm wondering, what exactly are they trying to convert me to? What exactly am I in need of saving from? It seems to me, their version of "Christianity" is do whatever you like, make no attempt at all to stay away from sin, and once a week say the magic words, drink the magic wine, and eat the magic cracker and it's all good.

So the next time I get asked about going to church or getting "saved", I'm seriously thinking about answering with "Why? What exactly am I being saved from?", and pointing out all the above.

Thoughts?

christianity is not an easy path to follow...sure its easy to go along to church, but how we live when we are not at church really shows just how much we are putting into practice. if your friends are living that sort of lifestyle, then I would not bother going along to their church because it has obviously not motivated them much at all

Its as James said:
James 1:23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word, and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror. 24 For he looks at himself, and off he goes and immediately forgets what sort of man he is. 25 But he who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and who persists in [it], this [man], because he has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, will be happy in his doing [it].

The role of the church should be to help people walk the path the Jesus walked, but unfortunately most church leaders are not really 'leaders'

I feel sorry for your friends, but then again, maybe the church is more a social thing for them??? If thats the case, then you might actually enjoy going along with them.

 

[Songbird]

Smoking, drinking, swearing, R-rated movies....to each their own, I guess.

Why do some people scoff when Christians avoid these, and some scoff when Christians don't avoid them?

And why do Christians focus on these four activities at all?

 

[blackout]

Why do some people scoff when Christians avoid these, and some scoff when Christians don't avoid them?

And why do Christians focus on these four activities at all?

Because everybody has their own idea of what a christian "should be".
(and shouldn't be.... and can't be.... and can be....)

 

[Songbird]

Because everybody has their own idea of what a christian "should be".
(and shouldn't be.... and can't be.... and can be....)

I wonder what eggnostics should or shouldn't be.

 

[blackout]

I wonder what eggnostics should or shouldn't be.

They should never be sure whether they believe in eggos and eggnog of course.

Silly question.

 

[Jose Fly]

As a Christian, my beliefs should be apparent in my lifestyle. Now - this doesn't mean that I don't have fun - that I don't ever drink or watch an R rated movie. (After all, "Schindler's List" and "Saving Private Ryan" are R rated).

What about Hangover 1 and 2? Hot Tub Time Machine? Superbad?

My lifestyle is not legalistic, because my faith is not legalistic. However, if my faith isn't evidenced by my love for others, my tolerance, my kindness, my grace toward them - as well as a balanced, healthy life in general - then I don't really have much to show for my professed faith.

What about people like me who have all that but aren't Christian? That's kind of my whole point, i.e. that my friends and I live almost exactly the same sort of life, the one exception being the church/Christian stuff.

That being said, as a Christian, I don't really think that drinking moderately, watching some R rated movies, even some cursing, is necessarily wrong. What's wrong with saying "Damn" or "Hell" or something like that? What's wrong with drinking a glass of wine or two in the evenings or at a party? You know?

That's not what I'm talking about at all. What you just described is more like my parents than these guys. With these friends, we all get together and usually at least two or three of us get drunk enough to need a ride home (we rotate who has to drive), we swear a lot more than the occasional "damn" or "hell", and the movies we watch aren't barely R-rated.

My faith is manifested in my relationships and in what I give back to my community and to others. Could this be the case with your friends? Do they derive a sense of community and strength and joy from their church and do they want to share this with you? Maybe they aren't trying to CONVERT you, but simply trying to share another part of their life which brings them joy.

That's probably what they're after. They like hanging out with me and they want me to be part of the larger social network at the church. The problem is, in order to do that I either have to pretend to be a Christian or I have to turn the logical part of my brain off and start believing. Neither option appeals to me at all.

What's wrong with gambling? As Christians, are we not allowed to do this? If so, I missed that memo...

It's not that he expects God to look the other way. He knows smoking is harmful and wrong on several different levels. But God doesn't expect us to be perfect. He just expects us to STRIVE to do better.

That's interesting that you see smoking as a sin but not gambling. It's probably my Baptist upbringing, but I always thought Christianity taught that they were both sinful. And as I pointed out, these guys don't make any attempt at all to not do these things. In fact, our get togethers are almost always centered around things like poker, booze, cigars, or raunchy movies.

 

[Jose Fly]

christianity is not an easy path to follow...sure its easy to go along to church, but how we live when we are not at church really shows just how much we are putting into practice. if your friends are living that sort of lifestyle, then I would not bother going along to their church because it has obviously not motivated them much at all

Oh I've been to the church many times. My wife and kids go there.

I feel sorry for your friends, but then again, maybe the church is more a social thing for them??? If thats the case, then you might actually enjoy going along with them.

Nah, I don't enjoy church much at all. I don't sing the songs, I don't pray, I don't take the communion, and usually when I listen to the sermon I'm fighting the urge to stand up and start questioning the pastor. I really get absolutely nothing out of it at all, except a greater appreciation of just how silly the whole thing is.

 

[tarasan]

So here's something that's been on my mind the last week or so....

I have a group of guy friends, all roughly in their 30's to early 40's. We're all married and have kids about the same age and our wives are all good friends. We all get together fairly often, and semi-regularly the guys all get together and do stuff. However, I'm the only non-Christian in the group. Most of the guys work in one manner or another at the church they all go to, with one of them even being a junior pastor (or something like that).

So every once in a while, when we're out doing something one of the guys will do the "You should come to church" thing. Sometimes that's all there is to it, other times it eventually turns into full-blown proselytization. Since I've known these guys for years, I've never had any trouble letting them know how I feel about Christianity and to their credit, it's never gotten heated or anything.

However, recently I've been wondering something....are these guys actually Christians? With the exception of going to church and taking communion, they don't live any different than me. They drink (and get drunk), swear, gamble, watch R-rated movies, comment on women, smoke, and generally do whatever they want. So I'm wondering, what exactly are they trying to convert me to? What exactly am I in need of saving from? It seems to me, their version of "Christianity" is do whatever you like, make no attempt at all to stay away from sin, and once a week say the magic words, drink the magic wine, and eat the magic cracker and it's all good.

So the next time I get asked about going to church or getting "saved", I'm seriously thinking about answering with "Why? What exactly am I being saved from?", and pointing out all the above.

Thoughts?

DO IT!!

If only so that you guys are on the same page because clearly the interpret christianity in a way that i havnt expereinced. heck perhaps they have something to add to the conversation. this might also be something that draws you closer to them as friends, I find that these heart to hearts do anyway.

 

[ChristineES]

Why do some people scoff when Christians avoid these, and some scoff when Christians don't avoid them?

And why do Christians focus on these four activities at all?

It's just one of those things. Some Christians are raised that drinking is a total sin- even though Jesus drank wine. Smoking, as far as I can tell is not even mentioned in any book in the Bible. I don't know about gambling. Swearing is the 2nd commandment (taking the Lord's name in vain), but I don't about cussing (most cuss words don't even mean anything).

I don't drink or smoke, but not because of my faith- but because alcoholism runs rampant in my family and smoking I only tried once, when I was 11 and I hated it and never, ever tried it again (the kids with me laughed heartily at my coughing fit but I bet they tried to quit later, LOL ).

 

[ninerbuff]

So here's something that's been on my mind the last week or so....

I have a group of guy friends, all roughly in their 30's to early 40's. We're all married and have kids about the same age and our wives are all good friends. We all get together fairly often, and semi-regularly the guys all get together and do stuff. However, I'm the only non-Christian in the group. Most of the guys work in one manner or another at the church they all go to, with one of them even being a junior pastor (or something like that).

So every once in a while, when we're out doing something one of the guys will do the "You should come to church" thing. Sometimes that's all there is to it, other times it eventually turns into full-blown proselytization. Since I've known these guys for years, I've never had any trouble letting them know how I feel about Christianity and to their credit, it's never gotten heated or anything.

However, recently I've been wondering something....are these guys actually Christians? With the exception of going to church and taking communion, they don't live any different than me. They drink (and get drunk), swear, gamble, watch R-rated movies, comment on women, smoke, and generally do whatever they want. So I'm wondering, what exactly are they trying to convert me to? What exactly am I in need of saving from? It seems to me, their version of "Christianity" is do whatever you like, make no attempt at all to stay away from sin, and once a week say the magic words, drink the magic wine, and eat the magic cracker and it's all good.

So the next time I get asked about going to church or getting "saved", I'm seriously thinking about answering with "Why? What exactly am I being saved from?", and pointing out all the above.

Thoughts?

Being a former catholic myself, I can tell you that "confession" is all catholics need to stay catholic and in good graces with god.
The catholics truly believe that confession is a new start to screw up again.