My first post

[stevecanuck]

When I say it was a useless fatwa I mean that just because some guy insulted Islam and the Prophet, that doesn't give a person the right to kill them.

If you're not familiar with the story of Asia Bibi, a Pakistani Christian, you should research it. You will find that the country of Pakistan disagrees with your above statement.

 

[stevecanuck]

Neither... We have to live in peace. There is no such call to eradicate a group in Islamic teachings.

Yes there is. Verse 9:29 to be exact.

 

[stevecanuck]

There is nothing in Islam that calls for the killing of a person simply because they disbelieve.

Verse 9:29 says, "Fight those who believe not in Allah ....".

The Arabic word translated as "fight" is a conjugation of "qatl". That means "kill".

 

[stevecanuck]

The idea that Muslims can kill someone because they simply left Islam is absurd. Muslims believe that tomorrow is unknown and there is no reason to conclude that this "ex-Muslim" couldn't come back to belief in 5 years, 10 years, etc and maybe they'll be even better Muslims than the ones that are persecuting them. But if they kill the individual today, they have made it definite that they'll never be a Muslim tomorrow and that is a major fault.

A Saudi Muslim lady told me that in Saudi Arabia a person who converts away from Islam is given three days to come back. If they don't, they are executed.

 

[stevecanuck]

These countries don't follow Islam but follow their own version of it ....

You are saying that you know Islam better than the governments of some countries. That is quite a claim. How to you justify making it?

 

[stevecanuck]

Yes, but he has to research classical Arabic of the Rasool's (s) time. What words meant then, not only now.

What did قتل mean then, and what does it mean now?

 

[oldbadger]

While I agree with you that many wars are based on greed and rancor, rather than protection against an awful enemy, but -- this earth IS special in God's eyes, I do believe.

You believe........ I acknowledge your belief.
Countries that defend themselves are not warriors, they are defendants.

I was looking lately at photos taken of various parts of the earth from helicopters, hills, etc. And the landscape is -- gorgeous, just absolutely beautiful. I don't believe it happened by "accident," namely evolution and that without a designer. So yes, I believe that God is very interested in mankind and the earth.

You should look at the Hubble's pictures........ You don't actually think that Earth is unique, do you?

 

[oldbadger]

Nobody can stop what has been decreed.
G-d has revealed His guidance through prophets, that have left their evidence in the Bible and Qur'an.

The Bahais say there are more decrees than just that, and that all those religions will be Bahai.
They say that God has decreed and that his words cannot be denied.

They cannot be eliminated.

That's what Bahais claim.

We all have to die one day. Opposing G-d's prophets and guidance will be of no avail. Truth is distinct from falsehood.

Yes.....truth is distinct, and it is that Mother Nature rules here........ you cannot deny that, nobody has ever been able to deny that.

 

[Sedim Haba]

Peace and Blessings to all that follow the guidance.

This forum is new to me, and I hope to find individuals that demonstrate intellectual integrity and can provide a civil and fruitful discussion.

That being said, I would like to see if there is anyone that has contentions about Islam. I don't have all the answers and I'm a student of knowledge myself, however, I promise I'll do my best to provide the questioner with a satisfactory response, or the response can open the door to the exchange of ideas in a constructive manner.

I'm not here to convince anyone, because it is my belief that only God that can turn people's hearts. I'm simply here to view your contentions and hopefully, together we can clear them up.

Please name one major contention you have about Islam and we can discuss it.

Welcome to RF!

Yes, I have a contention, please see my thread here:

Koran & Hadith in plain english?

13 pages and no one replied in any meaningful way to my OP. Why?

Shalom/Salaam

 

[loverofhumanity]

Peace and Blessings to all that follow the guidance.

This forum is new to me, and I hope to find individuals that demonstrate intellectual integrity and can provide a civil and fruitful discussion.

That being said, I would like to see if there is anyone that has contentions about Islam. I don't have all the answers and I'm a student of knowledge myself, however, I promise I'll do my best to provide the questioner with a satisfactory response, or the response can open the door to the exchange of ideas in a constructive manner.

I'm not here to convince anyone, because it is my belief that only God that can turn people's hearts. I'm simply here to view your contentions and hopefully, together we can clear them up.

Please name one major contention you have about Islam and we can discuss it.

Most welcome brother.

 

[Secret Chief]

Peace and Blessings to all that follow the guidance.

And what to those that do not?

 

[Daniel Nicholson]

Additionally, the mass killings that have happened in recent history weren't driven by religion. I direct you to the genocide committed by Stalin, Hitler, the atomic bomb, country invasions, and so forth.

Why do proponents of religion so often use WWII and Hitler as an example? Hitler was sanctioned by the Catholic Church. His war was against those who killed Jesus Christ. Every Nazi had "God on Our Side" on their belt buckle.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Hitler was sanctioned by the Catholic Church. His war was against those who killed Jesus Christ.

Don't be ridiculous.
In July 1933, Hitler and Pope Pius XI signed a concordat, or treaty.

In the months and years after the concordat was signed, the Nazis regularly violated the agreement by shutting down some Catholic organizations, confiscating church property, interfering with Catholic newspapers, and imprisoning or murdering clergy and other Church leaders. But the pope did not openly criticize the Nazis until 1937. By then it was too late. Roman Catholic opposition at this point was limited to isolated individuals who could easily be removed from their positions and lacked the support of their Church. According to Bergen: “The Concordat pulled the rug out from under potential Catholic opposition in Germany. How could parish priests criticize a chancellor who had been recognized by their pope?"
An Agreement with the Catholic Church

 

[Daniel Nicholson]

Don't be ridiculous.
In July 1933, Hitler and Pope Pius XI signed a concordat, or treaty.

In the months and years after the concordat was signed, the Nazis regularly violated the agreement by shutting down some Catholic organizations, confiscating church property, interfering with Catholic newspapers, and imprisoning or murdering clergy and other Church leaders. But the pope did not openly criticize the Nazis until 1937. By then it was too late. Roman Catholic opposition at this point was limited to isolated individuals who could easily be removed from their positions and lacked the support of their Church. According to Bergen: “The Concordat pulled the rug out from under potential Catholic opposition in Germany. How could parish priests criticize a chancellor who had been recognized by their pope?"
An Agreement with the Catholic Church

That's a terrible excerpt to refute my claim

 

[Redemptionsong]

Hello, and I hope you are well. Thank you for the welcoming and the comment.



Why do you take the Bible as a reliable source of information?




This is definitely a loaded question that opens the door to so many subtopics. But to simply answer it. Evidence and logic led me to believe in the Qur'an.



How is the Qur'an reliant on the Bible for its authority?

In the Christian Bible, the central figure is Jesus Christ, God's Son and Saviour. In the Qur'an, Jesus is a prophet, the son of Mary, but not the Son of God.

The Qur'an claims to accept the Gospels, but this presents a difficulty. One of the Gospels, the Gospel of John, reveals Jesus as the Son of God. All four Gospels teach that Jesus was crucified, died, and was raised to life again. This appears to be denied by the Qur'an.

If, as Muslims claim, the Bible was corrupted by men, then why does Allah say that the Torah, Psalms and Gospels are scripture? Were the supposed corruptions not already in those biblical books when the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad?

And, just as a little aside, was the Qur'an not revealed to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel? The same angel who, according to Luke 1:32, said to Mary, 'He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest'?

 

[Brickjectivity]

There are some here who do nothing other than preach.

Steve that is sometimes true! Good point. Please report posts which contain preaching (as defined in rule 8 of forum rules). This helps staff to identify them. We don't have anyone paid to read through all of the posts, so we miss things. If a post is reported someone on staff will see it.

Definitely we do not want RF to be a battle zone. What we'd prefer are back channels between people in different religions. Its good to resolve rumors, and we like to encourage friendships. Also sometimes seekers and students have questions.

Here's what the rule says:

8. Preaching/Proselytizing
Creating (or linking to) content intended to convert/recruit others to your religion, spirituality, sect/denomination, or lack thereof is not permitted. Similarly, attempting to convert others away from their religion, spiritual convictions, or sect/denomination will also be considered a form of preaching. Stating opinions as a definitive matter of fact (i.e., without "I believe/feel/think" language, and/or without references) may be moderated as preaching.​

All site rules are here:

RF Rules

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/rf-rules.170244/

Thanks!

 

[YoursTrue]

You believe........ I acknowledge your belief.
Countries that defend themselves are not warriors, they are defendants.


You should look at the Hubble's pictures........ You don't actually think that Earth is unique, do you?

If someone (or a group) defends themselves, it's usually because of an agressor. Further, yes, the earth is certainly unique in the flowers, the greenery, the animals, etc. I'm pretty well astonished you don't "see" that. (Have a nice day.)

 

[YoursTrue]

That's a terrible excerpt to refute my claim

View attachment 59805

I'm finding that many people will find excuses about these things, in other words, religion, politics, and greed. etc.

 

[Audie]

If someone (or a group) defends themselves, it's usually because of an agressor. Further, yes, the earth is certainly unique in the flowers, the greenery, the animals, etc. I'm pretty well astonished you don't "see" that. (Have a nice day.)

No two things are identical, above the molecular level.

We are astonished that you dont see that.

 

[YoursTrue]

What I find interesting in the astonishing sense is how many "agreements" are made and broken by political powers and then throughout the ages the powers that be send men off to fight their battles for them, risking the lives of others, killing those that have no interest in the wars of their country in particular. Also force as we see for those who may disagree with the political or religious powers.