My first post

[muhammad_isa]

Who wrote that? What is your point?

The point is that when countries win wars, they "call the tune".
..but civilisations rise and fall. G-d does not help those who turn away from Him.

God is too vast to be aware of this tiny planet in a minor solar system amongst billions in this galaxy..

I'm afraid not.
G-d is aware of every leaf that has fallen and will fall.
You will have to show me which other planet has leaves.

 

[QuestioningMind]

No it's not .. that's the whole point.
One has to consciously think that they are being watched, and even then, one can still think they might "get away with it".

..and so they might. Eventually, however, all that we do catches up with us.

You're not making any sense. If that's the case then why doesn't god simply reveal himself to everyone? How would that void the test?

 

[oldbadger]

That is a tricky one OB.

A lot of times wars are started becauser of greed, hatred and domination against a people that do not want war, in some cases genocide is the intent.

Do defend, or be eliminated?

Regards Tony

Defend. Defendants don't start wars.

 

[oldbadger]

The point is that when countries win wars, they "call the tune".

After the war the allies rebuilt Japan and Germany together with their peoples.

..but civilisations rise and fall. G-d does not help those who turn away from Him.

I don't believe in your God, I am a Deist.

I'm afraid not.
G-d is aware of every leaf that has fallen and will fall.
You will have to show me which other planet has leaves.

Again, I am a Deist.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You're not making any sense. If that's the case then why doesn't god simply reveal himself to everyone?

G-d is closer to you than your jugular vein.
Our souls belong to G-d.

He is aware of each and every thought of every creature.
How does a non-physical phenomena "reveal itself" ?
Pretend to be a dolphin or something?

 

[PruePhillip]

Witness the hate between Republicans and Democrats..

You confuse religion with politics.
US is the richest nation in the world.
Take away the wealth, and what would you be left with?
The west has been practicing "divide and rule" for centuries.
It won't last for ever.

Being victorious in wars is a reward from G-d, but I think yu'll find that the west is slipping .. as the generations come and go they become complacent .. they even turn their backs on G-d.

That's true. But divisions between Democrats and Republicans are no different than between Britain's
Labor and Tories, and Australias Liberal and Labor - these parties represent left and right, or liberal vs
conservative. This is what democracy is, the spectrum of beliefs in a nation. This is why we have elections.

But you don't get this in most Muslim nations. Look at Gaza, or Iran, or Egypt. Essentially dictators.

Yes the West is declining, or more importantly, other nations/religions are catching up, such as Hindu
for India and Buddhist Asia. And that's not a bad thing.

 

[PruePhillip]

People predict all kinds of things.

To this quote, 'that one day Islam will own Europe by immigration, demographics, conversion and terror'

This is already happening. There's a chilling of free expression in Europe today because of Islam.
Note the Charlie Hebdo case, and the beefing up of security everywhere.
Muslims hate us, but they want to live in our countries - note the mass migration of millons of Africans
Syrians, Afghans etc into Europe. An Islamic France for instance would not lead to Muslims there having
their cake and eating it too - a lot of businesses would leave, free expression would be shut down, Sharia
law would over-turn France's centuries old notions of fraternity and liberty - and France would begin to
resemble a Muslim nation of the Middle East.

Demographics speaks for itself.
So too does conversion.

The Enlightenment was the tranformation of nations into modern liberal democratic nations emphasizing
the importance of reason and science over religion. This cannot happen in Islamic states as by definition
you are an 'Islamic country.'

 

[muhammad_isa]

There's a chilling of free expression in Europe today because of Islam..

Nobody can stop what has been decreed.
G-d has revealed His guidance through prophets, that have left their evidence in the Bible and Qur'an.

They cannot be eliminated.
We all have to die one day. Opposing G-d's prophets and guidance will be of no avail. Truth is distinct from falsehood.

 

[PruePhillip]

Nobody can stop what has been decreed.
G-d has revealed His guidance through prophets, that have left their evidence in the Bible and Qur'an.

They cannot be eliminated.
We all have to die one day. Opposing G-d's prophets and guidance will be of no avail. Truth is distinct from falsehood.

You see? Without perhaps even realizing it - you have demonstrated my point. G-d will decree, and the spokesman
for G-d will be some imam or mullah or supreme leader - telling European people that their own democratic rights no
longer exist because the people they so kindly allowed to enter their nation as 'refugees' have taken them away.

So here's the thing. If Muslims want their poor, repressed nations to be rule by G-d then I think it's time that Europe
in particular should encourage all religious Muslims to leave - and return to Alergia, Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan and
other rat holes.
Westerns don't want to live in a mullah controlled rat hole.

 

[Neuropteron]

Peace and Blessings to all that follow the guidance.
.

Hi,
Guidance comes from many sources, wich one are you referring to ?

 

[QuestioningMind]

G-d is closer to you than your jugular vein.
Our souls belong to G-d.

He is aware of each and every thought of every creature.
How does a non-physical phenomena "reveal itself" ?
Pretend to be a dolphin or something?

Are you incapable of responding to a simple question with anything other than flowery language and nonsense?

The person I responded to indicated that this non-physical phenomena COULD 'reveal itself' to everyone, but chooses not to because it would in some way void the 'test' god is attempting to conduct. I pointed out the flaw in that logic since it means that every sincere believer in a god is also void from the test, since they believe they are constantly being watched and judged.

If you have no desire to respond to those specific points, why are we having this conversation? I really have no desire to hear you claim that god is closer to me than my jugular or that my unverified 'soul' in some way belongs to this claimed god being without providing an iota of verifiable evidence.

 

[Daniel Nicholson]

Please name one major contention you have about Islam and we can discuss it

I have many. To start, women rights. I think we all know what I'm talking about.

 

[stevecanuck]

Had Allah been a fact like 2+2=4 then that would leave no room for other possibilities, and it would remove the concept of faith. One doesn't believe in facts, rather they just know them.

The irony in having a prophet claim to have received divine revelations is that he doesn't need the faith that he demands of others. Mohamed had direct visitations from Gabriel, which in effect means he was given the 2+2=4 that the rest of you are not. You are basically saying that Mohamed had zero faith because he didn't need it.

(Btw, there's an assumed "according to Islamic belief" in everything I say).

 

[stevecanuck]

Yes indeed, people can be horrible. In your opinion, do you think religion kills more or greed?

I'm not sure why you want to make a comparison. If, for example, it could be proved that greed/expansionism caused 1 billion deaths, but religious wars only caused 800,000,000, what would be the point?

 

[stevecanuck]

Nobody's allowed to preach to you, nor you to them.

There are some here who do nothing other than preach.

 

[stevecanuck]

... the Quran isn't a book that promotes violence, but rather self defense.

I dispute that. Self defense is giving as only one reason to fight. Battling 'fitnah' and 'fasad' are also included. There is a distinction between defending your person vs. your faith. Verses 2:191 and 5:33 prove the point, don't you think?

 

[stevecanuck]

There is nothing in Islam that allows this.

Mohamed had the entire Banu Quraiza tribe wiped out (after previously expelling two other major tribes). The men and youths were beheaded while the women and children were taken as slaves. The excuse is that they were traitorous, but even if that were true, the women and children were completely innocent. Is that not true?

 

[YoursTrue]

Salam

To end Nubuwa is not an easy task, but the world is coming to an end. All good things must come to an end, and this trial of humanity is coming to a finality.


You ask a good question. Musa (a) prays in the Torah "for the one who you will send", God get's angry at him and says "You have your brother Aaron". What does this mean?

It means two things. One that God doesn't want Musa (a) thinking about the future, but the now. And make his people enlightened and relieve his knot from his tongue through Aaron (a) as opposed to the one you will send.

But did God relieve the knot on Moses' (a) tongue at the end? No, because people didn't honor Aaron (a) and so they didn't become enlightened.

To this day, the Torah both praises Aaron (a) and his family (a), but also condemns Aaron (a) and disconnects the chosen ones from his family. Later books there are praises to Aaron's (a) family as well.

The Tanakh praises some chosen ones like David (a) while condemning others like Talut (a) and Sulaiman (a).

It also tells tall tales of slavery being allowed by God from the get go like Ibrahim's (a) slave and later slaves are allowed as well. This is to do with also corrupting the clear Prophecy in Ismail (a) and chosen king to be followed up by Twelve princes (who would become Kings) in his offspring.

But from the get go, we see Torah talks about exalted ones Adam (a) wants to be of. These exalted ones and tree of life, to me, are obviously the ones alluded to by "the one who you will send". That means, there will be a time, when knowledge of Prophets (a) is spread and their knot on tongues opened.

So according to Torah, there is a universal one to be sent who will relieve the knot on all tongues of Prophets including his. Now, really Musa (a) was looking all the way to the Mahdi (a). But God said, prepare your people now and make them come to your knowledge through Aaron (a). If there is a knot on your tongue because of the ignorant propaganda, he can teach them the secret knowledge that won't be effected by that propaganda.

Thus Aaron (a) was more conveying in tongue and more eloquent, only due, to the situation he was in. Moses (a) being the founder, had to speak things simply.

Now, Allah (swt) wants knowledge to spread. And things are now reaching a climax.

Quran says Mohammad (s) is sent to all mankind, present and future to come. His Ahlulbayt (a) are also sent to all mankind.

Although Musa's (a) prayer was pertaining to the Mahdi (a), Allah (swt) guaranteed the relief of the knot of the Tongue with Imam Mohammad Al-Baqir (a). That at that point, the knowledge, will no longer be hidden and it will be spread.

If you see hadiths of Imam Mohammad Al-Baqir (a), he heavily taught about the light of God. He swears, that the Imam is the light of God in heavens and earth, and that the Imams are the light revealed with Mohammad (s), and that the light is brighter in a believer's heart than sun on midday.

This is showing there is more to the leader that meets the eye. Musa (a) couldn't say "I am the light of the world", or people will think he wanted to be worshiped. Same with Mohammad (s), he said to Ali (a), were it not for people doing to Isa (a) what they did, he would have spoken words about Ali (a) that would have truly exalted him.

However, Imam Mohammad Al-Baqir (a) is very explicit in the station of the Imam. The Ziyarat of Imam Zainal Abideen (A) by Mohamad Al-Baqir (a) is very deep.

Ultimately, the light of Imam (a) is the heart and soul of the next world. He is the stream by which all believers drink from, the rivers are about their reality. It's not real honey, not real whine, not real milk, these are metaphors of a higher reality, the reality of the abundance (Al-Kawthar).

And so the Ahlulbayt (a) were successful to a large extent in bringing people to a very strong middle path about recognizing the light of God and Imams. They don't worship them nor do they neglect their exalted status.

The Imam Mahdi (a) is a final test in Quran, for humanity. They all prepared the way for him. The warnings in Quran that not a city will remain but be destroyed or punished severely by God, are there.

The Mahdi (a) is the universal one sent to all, that means, when he is sent, all humanity will witness him. However, we are lucky in that Mohammad Al-Baqir (a) already cleaved the knowledge and untied the knots on Prophets and Messengers. The knowledge from first and last per ahadith he has spread.

And so the knowledge is there. This is not the issue. The issue is application and preparing for the Mahdi (a). The final test. And going back, it's the final test, because the world is coming to an end and this is the climax test from God. He sent the best of the best (Mohammad (s) and his family (a)) and left one last king from them, and so he is the last of God's chosen. How we respond to him and come to him, is the final test. All good things must come to an end, and this trial is coming to an end.

I've had many conversations with people here about the Bible and the veracity of it (or lack of it), including evolution as part of the subject rather than what the Bible says. And so many do not believe in the Bible. Your first point got to me above about the end of the world or humanity. And so without going too deeply into it, I must say that it's taken, according to the concept of evolution, several hundred thousand years for humanity to get to the point of disaster, ruining the earth, possibly wreaking great havoc with nuclear war, etc. (Rather than several thousand years as I believe it says in the Bible for mankind to get to this point.)

 

[YoursTrue]

And that was a disgrace as well.
Japan's invasion of parts of China was utterly disgusting, as was it's invasion of Thailand, Burma, all SE Asia. And Germany's attacks on European countries was filth as well.


Who wrote that? What is your point?

So what? You've just pointed out earlier that Western Nation's powers disintintegrated, but we are all still here, as is Russia.

God is too vast to be aware of this tiny planet in a minor solar system amongst billions in this galaxy, of which there are billions in this universe, so humans who actually think that God considers recent mankind to be special...... this has to be some kind of arrogant megalomania,....No?

There resident power here in this who universe is Mother Nature, and everything bows before her, everybody and everything.

While I agree with you that many wars are based on greed and rancor, rather than protection against an awful enemy, but -- this earth IS special in God's eyes, I do believe. I was looking lately at photos taken of various parts of the earth from helicopters, hills, etc. And the landscape is -- gorgeous, just absolutely beautiful. I don't believe it happened by "accident," namely evolution and that without a designer. So yes, I believe that God is very interested in mankind and the earth.

 

[YoursTrue]

No one can ever say who is going to heaven and who isn't. This is a major misconception. Every human being has a personal account with their Lord.

So then using that reasoning one's religion doesn't matter in God's eyes? I mean if a prophet of any sort wasn't telling the truth from God, how would you know?