My first post

[stevecanuck]

Such as the position that we have good reason too believe that any god exists.

He walked into that one with his chin extended.

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

Equality means that women have the same legal, educational, employment and societal accesses as men. That women are not bound to gender related legal or cultural restrictions.

There is a lot. More than 50 societies last I read. Look at the work of Starkweather and Hames. Many more cultures were killed or corrupted by Christianity and Islam during their empire building phases.


And yet, said religions are deeply misogynistic.




Btw, there are women in the world with more ability than you in every way.

I looked at starkweather and Hames articles and it address polyandry which is more of a married woman being assigned to another married man. Men were typically the instigators of these institutions for whatever reasons. See below from the summary of Starkweather and Hames.

'analysis reveals that it may be a predictable response to a high operational sex ratio favoring males and may also be a response to high rates of male mortality and, possibly, male absenteeism'

It appears that when we speak of preference, women are monogamist. The societies that are being referred to suggest necessity and not preference of women which proves inequality all the more.

The argument is that most Muslim women consider themselves equal according to their belief structure. They understand their roles and difference in the society they were raised in. In your world of perspective, it is misogynistic because it lies without your moral or social values. However, internally, it is important to understand that many women might be happier and suited in this environment than in what you deem to be more morally sound. Equality is subjective. We are objectively unequal in many ways. Yes women advance in more things than I could, yet there are other contributions that are very needed from their male counterparts that cannot be ignored as well.

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

That was one giant non-sequitur. I'm talking about rights, not physical ability or biological differences.

I deleted the preaching part of your post that followed.

Oh Ok, I'll remember that for next time. (note to self: Do not consider physical abilities and biological differences the same as rights for stevecanuck.) Don't worry I'll put the rock back on my way out so you can continue living under it.

 

[stevecanuck]

Oh Ok, I'll remember that for next time. (note to self: Do not consider physical abilities and biological differences the same as rights for stevecanuck.) Don't worry I'll put the rock back on my way out so you can continue living under it.

So, the ability, for example, to run faster and voting rights are the same thing???

Don't worry, logic isn't for everyone.

 

[paarsurrey]

Then why aren't you a Muslim? Islam (via the Qur'an) tells you a few times that God does not have a son. It tells you Jesus is merely a prophet and that he did not die on the cross.
It certainly does. After about 22 years of evolution, the Qur'an settles on a position described by verse 9:111
"Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah , so they kill and are killed".

The Pauline Christians don't have anything in writing from Jesus, hence the difference and their confusion. Right, please?

Regards

 

[stevecanuck]

A person who disbelieves, and is not lying, has nothing to fear.

You're denying the words of your god. Are you really sure you want to do that???

Verse 29:68 (and hundreds of others) make it clear that telling a lie about God and disbelieving are the same thing, and that Hell awaits disbelievers. The entire Qur'an is dedicated to that premise. You know you can't get away with white-washing Islam while I'm here.

"Who is more unjust than one who invents falsehood against God or rejects the Truth after it has come to him? Is not hell the dwelling for the disbelievers?"

 

[muhammad_isa]

You're denying the words of your god.

No, I'm not.
I read the whole Qur'an in context .. whilst you cherry-pick certain verses and insist on an interpretation to further your agenda.

My agenda is one of belief, whereas yours is not.
It is very clear to me that nobody will be wronged in the least. It is therefore quite obvious that a non-guilty person has nothing to fear.
A person who has something to hide is not the same as somebody who does not.

 

[stevecanuck]

No, I'm not.
I read the whole Qur'an in context .. whilst you cherry-pick certain verses

But, But, But ....... CHERRY PICKED!!!

'Cherry Picked' definition: Damn! He found a verse to back up his claim.

and insist on an interpretation to further your agenda.

My 'agenda' is to expose and defeat Islamopropaganda.

My agenda is one of belief, whereas yours is not.
It is very clear to me that nobody will be wronged in the least. It is therefore quite obvious that a non-guilty person has nothing to fear.
A person who has something to hide is not the same as somebody who does not.

Read 29:68 as many times as it takes to make you realize that disbelievers (i.e. anyone who is not a faithful Muslim) are Hell-bound. If that doesn't do it for you, I'll randomly pluck a few more 'cherries' off the cherry tree that is the Qur'an.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Read 29:68 as many times as it takes to make you realize that disbelievers (i.e. anyone who is not a faithful Muslim) are Hell-bound. If that doesn't do it for you, I'll randomly pluck a few more 'cherries' off the cherry tree that is the Qur'an.

You can quote whatever verses seem good to you.
I am a believer. You will not convince me that a non-guilty person is hell-bound.

"disbeliever" is an English word.
The Qur'an often uses the word 'kafir' which means "a person that hides the truth".
It is all about intention.
G-d knows my intention, and He knows yours, for example.

 

[ppp]

The Qur'an often uses the word 'kafir' which means "a person that hides the truth".

Lot's of people have trouble conceiving that anyone does not believe their shtick. Lots of sacred text say stuff like that. That's just the writer stroking his ego.

 

[stevecanuck]

You can quote whatever verses seem good to you.
I am a believer. You will not convince me that a non-guilty person is hell-bound.
"disbeliever" is an English word.
The Qur'an often uses the word 'kafir' which means "a person that hides the truth".
It is all about intention.
G-d knows my intention, and He knows yours, for example.

And "the truth" means the revelations 'received' from Allah by Mohamed - in other words, Islam. The Qur'an spends 6,236 verses defining the difference between belief and unbelief, and promising heaven for those who embrace the former, and hell for adherents of the latter.

 

[joelr]

The Pauline Christians don't have anything in writing from Jesus, hence the difference and their confusion. Right, please?

Regards

Paul had visions and wrote revelations down. Muhammad also had visions and wrote revelations down. Same thing.

Later Muhammad rode on a flying horse and visited the afterlife levels. Isaiah of course also claimed this in Ascension of Isaiah before Christianity. It's the same fiction round and round. They both toured the 7 levels of heaven. In the Book of Enoch an angel gave him a tour as well. Abraham also got a tour in the Testament of Abraham.

 

[Audie]

If you think that addressing equality in religion means that the women should have the same abilities as the man, you will have a very difficult time finding any religion that is equal. As much as we want it to be, women and men were never created equally. Women are biologically different and have different roles emotionally and socially than men. Even if you would give the opportunity for a woman to marry multiple men in reverse polygamy, I don't know if there has been any evidence to suggest they would. Women biologically believe in commitment to one Man. Since you can't change the nature of man, you should never expect equality.

Islam defines these separation of roles pretty well. They provide women with the expectations pretty early on, where there isn't a need to think anything else. I would expect many Muslim women would be happy where they are at as holders of their beliefs.

My main issue with possession in this regard is not Men toward Women, more than it is God toward Men. When your religion considers humans as objects to God, like a light bulb and not as a Father or a being that desires a relationship with you. It only makes sense that you look at the world in a view of pure equality, that every person is as invaluable as the other. Relationship with God is structured purely as obedience, sort of like a soldier to their general. They will be loyal and die for Him, but they may never have a relationship with Him, which is in major contrast to the Christian Faith.

Islamic women are told what to do and
have no need to think.

I dont know of many causes to die for,
but fighting an Islamic takeover might be #1.

 

[Audie]

Paul had visions and wrote revelations down. Muhammad also had visions and wrote revelations down. Same thing.

Later Muhammad rode on a flying horse and visited the afterlife levels. Isaiah of course also claimed this in Ascension of Isaiah before Christianity. It's the same fiction round and round. They both toured the 7 levels of heaven. In the Book of Enoch an angel gave him a tour as well. Abraham also got a tour in the Testament of Abraham.

They claim to have had revelations.
So have countless others.
No two ever get coinciding mrssages

 

[Audie]

He walked into that one with his chin extended.

It goes with certain typess of claims.

 

[Come2thelight]

Seems that you are not aware of any theory about creation of the universe other than what is mentioned in Quran. World has moved far ahead of 7th Century.
It means that according to Quantum theory the universe could arise from "Absolute Nothing".
"Many-Worlds Interpretation is now considered a mainstream interpretation along with the other decoherence interpretations, collapse theories (including the Copenhagen interpretation), and hidden variable theories such as Bohmian mechanics."
Many-worlds interpretation - Wikipedia, Zero-energy universe - Wikipedia, String theory - Wikipedia, etc.

Hello, and I hope you’re well. I find it quite interesting that you’re willing to accept any of these theories over the most simple and obvious one. (ie Creator) Is it because you don’t like what the reality of that possibility would entail?

And if there is no fitrah, then why do studies show that the belief in the supernatural is already programmed in us? Neurologists and even evolutionary biologists can attest to this. Here’s an interesting video, with all atheist panelists with the exception of one if I’m not mistaken.

 

[Come2thelight]

== ok, Surah 2

Hello, and I hope you’re well.

Now I definitely know why you find the Quran evil if that’s all those ayahs said to you. I wanted you to go ayah by ayah and you jumbled up 7-20 while I specifically asked for 6-29 and each ayah independently. Would you like to take another crack at it? Because what you brought was not even elementary. If you don’t want to, just state it and that will be fine too. Quite a disappointing attempt though.

 

[Come2thelight]

@Policy

Hello, and I hope you're well.

The dominant theory out there is that the universe came from a singularity. Do you hold this position?

And yes of course you don’t believe in a soul. But does that make it true? I could believe in Islam, but that doesn’t make it true. So why don’t you believe in a soul? It’s not something tangible, nor detectable, but considered the spark that gives you life. So why do you think you don’t have this spark?

 

[Come2thelight]

Hey @Audie , I hope you're well.

“That is NOT what "a call" means.”

Yes, it does; an invitation to such a practice. It's there in the text.

And the bible is way more monotheistic. What are you talking about? Only Paul and maybe John start to butcher it. But as a whole, the dominant message is monotheistic. The proof of that is that I can definitely provide you with more verses that point to monotheism compared to you showing verses that point to polytheism.

And why does the concept of a Creator seem irrational?

 

[Come2thelight]

@TransmutingSoul

Hey Tony, I hope you’re well.

Are you aware that Arabic grammar came from the Quran? If so, then how can it contain incorrect grammar? There have been some incidences where the listener would wonder about certain words that seemed foreign to them. Like Al Rahmaan for example.

You said that there were people that called the words of Bab and Baha’u’llah magic. What historical accounts do you have concerning this? (I’m not denying it, just curious to learn more)

How do you reconcile surah 2 ayahs 2-5 according to your Prophet’s teaching? To me, it gives characteristics of those with taqwa. One of those characteristics is to believe in what was revealed to Muhammad and what was revealed before him. There is no mention of believing in anything that is after. So why have you neglected this or what is your explanation for this?