"My God, My God, Why Has Thou Forsaken Me?

[Thief]

I know what repentance is, so if you start the topic I will enter it to put you right. Thats a promise.

Oh Lord....why hast thou forsaken me?

Forgive them...for they know.... not.... what they do.

 

[BigRed]

What happened, that made Christ call out on the cross? Evidently, Christ had tried to 'give up His life', and nothing happened, and yet, The Father had 'commanded' that Jesus had this power.

The ministers of the Protestant churches that I attended, believe that The Father could not handle the sins of the world that Jesus took upon Himself, and thus 'turned away' for a moment.

Is it possible, that Jesus thought that His work was finished, but it was not? Was satan given one last chance to 'tempt' Jesus? If Jesus would have 'cursed' The Father, would all of His work be for nothing? Is it possible, that Jesus had to prove, that under the most fearful conditions, that He could 'remain worthy until the end', as required of all Christians? Jesus faced the possibility of having His legs broken, if He remained on the cross. We see in Job, that satan could tempt Job in any way, but was not allowed to break a single bone. In the case of Christ, Christ must have been in terrible fear and confusion, and yet, He assumed nothing. He did the correct thing. He asked His Father.

My opinion is that Jesus was a very Charismatic preacher who was very popular with the people. Since the Jews were under the control of the Romans they had "Messianic Fever" and were hoping for a Messiah to free them from Roman rule.
Jesus let his popularity go to his head and he deluded himself into thinking that he was "The Messiah." On the cross, Jesus expected God to save him and give him the throne of David. But at the last moment Jesus realized his folly...and he cried out....My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?

BigRed

 

[free spirit]

My opinion is that Jesus was a very Charismatic preacher who was very popular with the people. Since the Jews were under the control of the Romans they had "Messianic Fever" and were hoping for a Messiah to free them from Roman rule.
Jesus let his popularity go to his head and he deluded himself into thinking that he was "The Messiah." On the cross, Jesus expected God to save him and give him the throne of David. But at the last moment Jesus realized his folly...and he cried out....My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?

BigRed

HA HA HAaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! your immagination makes you material for Hollywood
1) Rome at that time had not conquered Judea, they were there by invitation, you can read that in the history books.
2) the rest is not worthy of an answer.

 

[free spirit]

Originally Posted by Thorwald Johansen
What happened, that made Christ call out on the cross? Evidently, Christ had tried to 'give up His life', and nothing happened, and yet, The Father had 'commanded' that Jesus had this power.

The ministers of the Protestant churches that I attended, believe that The Father could not handle the sins of the world that Jesus took upon Himself, and thus 'turned away' for a moment.

The minister of your church is wrong, because he never read the end of what the prophet said of him, for in Psalm 22:23-24, we read,

23) ‘You who fear the Lord, praise Him; all you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him, and stand in awe of Him, all you descendants of Israel.
24) For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither has He hidden His face from Him; but when He cried to Him for help, He heard.’”

 

[BigRed]

HA HA HAaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! your immagination makes you material for Hollywood
1) Rome at that time had not conquered Judea, they were there by invitation, you can read that in the history books.
2) the rest is not worthy of an answer.

In 63 BCE the Roman general Pompey conquered Jerusalem and made the Jewish kingdom a client of Rome. In 40–39, Herod the Great was appointed King of the Jews by the Roman Senate, and in 6 CE the last ethnarch of Judea was deposed by the emperor Augustus and his territories were combined with Idumea and Samaria and annexed as Iudaea Province under direct Roman administration.[62] The name Judea (Iudaea) was removed after the revolt of Simon Bar Kochba in 135 CE, after whhich the area was called Palestina (Palestine), (Greek: Παλαιστίνη, Palaistinē; Latin: Palaestina.

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BigRed

 

[free spirit]

In 63 BCE the Roman general Pompey conquered Jerusalem and made the Jewish kingdom a client of Rome. In 40–39, Herod the Great was appointed King of the Jews by the Roman Senate, and in 6 CE the last ethnarch of Judea was deposed by the emperor Augustus and his territories were combined with Idumea and Samaria and annexed as Iudaea Province under direct Roman administration.[62] The name Judea (Iudaea) was removed after the revolt of Simon Bar Kochba in 135 CE, after whhich the area was called Palestina (Palestine), (Greek: Παλαιστίνη, Palaistinē; Latin: Palaestina.

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BigRed

Ponpey did not conquered Judea, Two brothers were claiming the trone, Ponpey was asked to ristore order and protect them from the empire to the south of them, now Iran and Iraq. What were the terms of that alliance I do not know and I do not care.
However Rome conquered Judea in 70 AD. in which the temple was destroyed.
There is allways two sides to politic and this is not the forum to debate it.

 

[Thief]

My opinion is that Jesus was a very Charismatic preacher who was very popular with the people. Since the Jews were under the control of the Romans they had "Messianic Fever" and were hoping for a Messiah to free them from Roman rule.
Jesus let his popularity go to his head and he deluded himself into thinking that he was "The Messiah." On the cross, Jesus expected God to save him and give him the throne of David. But at the last moment Jesus realized his folly...and he cried out....My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?

BigRed

Check this out.....
Jesus avoided any opportunity to have a crown on His head.
He was not interested.

And clearing the temple did nothing for His popularity.

When He pronounced...'why have you forsaken me?'...
it was the silence...of the Spirit....no angels with comfort....

 

[Ben Masada]

Do you remember when Jesus realized that God had forsaken him? In the Gethsemani, when he prayed three times asking God not to let him walk the Via Dolorosa. He didn't want to partake of that cup. When he realized that he was wasting his time, he said, "Be Thy will done; not mine." Not mine! What was Jesus' will then? Obviously, he didn't want to die on the cross for nobody. Therefore, the poor man was pushed unto the cross against his will. So, it is about time to stop the cliche that Jesus laid his life down of his own accord, because that's not the truth at all.

 

[Thief]

Do you remember when Jesus realized that God had forsaken him? In the Gethsemani, when he prayed three times asking God not to let him walk the Via Dolorosa. He didn't want to partake of that cup. When he realized that he was wasting his time, he said, "Be Thy will done; not mine." Not mine! What was Jesus' will then? Obviously, he didn't want to die on the cross for nobody. Therefore, the poor man was pushed unto the cross against his will. So, it is about time to stop the cliche that Jesus laid his life down of his own accord, because that's not the truth at all.

And I would go one step further.....
He saved no one by dying on the cross.

That 'scapegoat' routine so many are fond of...is unrealistic.

At this point I think, you and I could agree.
the events of His ministry had a predictable ending.
He saw it coming as He approached the Holy City.

He simply could not say no....He could not avoid the outcome.

Yeah....He laid down His life....
but it was in servitude to His Father.
Not a scapegoat gesture as so many believe.

 

[smokydot]

And I would go one step further.....
He saved no one by dying on the cross.
That 'scapegoat' routine so many are fond of...is unrealistic.
At this point I think, you and I could agree.
the events of His ministry had a predictable ending.
He saw it coming as He approached the Holy City.
He simply could not say no....He could not avoid the outcome.
Yeah....He laid down His life....
but it was in servitude to His Father.
Not a scapegoat gesture as so many believe.

The NT letter to the Hebrews reveals that Jesus was the perfect once-for-all atoning sacrifice for the sin of those who believe in him. . .

he was the "scapegoat" bearing their sin. . .as the sins of God's people in the OT were laid on the scapegoat, who was then cast away into the wilderness.

Your problem is with the NT. . .which is the authority for what is to be believed by Christians.

 

[Thief]

The NT letter to the Hebrews reveals that Jesus was the perfect once-for-all atoning sacrifice for the sin of those who believe in him. . .

he was the "scapegoat" bearing their sin. . .as the sins of God's people in the OT were laid on the scapegoat, who was then cast away into the wilderness.

Your problem is with the NT. . .which is the authority for what is to be believed by Christians.

No....the problem is a failed practice....

Scapegoating never worked....and won't.

You will be held to what have said and done.

Therefore.....here is your sign and salvation....

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

The angels are waiting.

 

[smokydot]

No....the problem is a failed practice....

The NT says it did not fail. . .that it is the power of God and the wisdom of God, and he never fails.

You'll understand if Christians choose to believe the NT instead of you.

Scapegoating never worked....and won't.
You will be held to what have said and done.
Therefore.....here is your sign and salvation....
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
The angels are waiting.

 

[Thief]

The NT says it did not fail. . .that it is the power of God and the wisdom of God, and he never fails.

You'll understand if Christians choose to believe the NT instead of you.

I wasn't calling for followers.

 

[smokydot]

I wasn't calling for followers.

Glad to hear that.

 

[Hawkins]

What happened, that made Christ call out on the cross? Evidently, Christ had tried to 'give up His life', and nothing happened, and yet, The Father had 'commanded' that Jesus had this power.

You simply need to die to know.

Strong sense of being forsaken is part of the process called "death". Now Jesus cried out and the process is thus "defined" in the Bible. As a result, next time when you die, you will taste the same sense and thus know that Jesus Christ did die on the cross.

Now (for awhile) just assume that God doesn't exist. Then who came back from death to write down that piece of information onto the Bible? Alternatively speaking, someone must have returned from death for that piece of information (there are actually more about the characteristics of death) to be recorded onto the Bible.

As a result, everyone, whether you assume God exists or not, can thus witness that Jesus Christ 1) did exist in history, 2) died on the cross, 3) was raised back from death.

 

[brandon1934]

"My God, My God, Why Has Thou Forsaken Me?" reference back, to the scripture in Psalms where David prophecies the Messiah would quote these words. However, the original intention of the phrase in a Hebraic context is actually the phrase, "Ephraim, Ephraim, why hast thou forsaken me.?" which is a reference to the northern kingdom of Israel being exiled throughout the world.

Also, the trinity is the result of syncretism with pagan religions by the early European church through years of misinterpretation, poor scriptural translation, and misunderstanding.

 

[Muffled]

No....the problem is a failed practice....

Scapegoating never worked....and won't.

You will be held to what have said and done.

Therefore.....here is your sign and salvation....

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

The angels are waiting.

It works for me.

Not according to Rom 8:1.

This still happens but not legalistically.

I am not saved by the law; I am saved by Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

My opinion is that Jesus was a very Charismatic preacher who was very popular with the people. Since the Jews were under the control of the Romans they had "Messianic Fever" and were hoping for a Messiah to free them from Roman rule.
Jesus let his popularity go to his head and he deluded himself into thinking that he was "The Messiah." On the cross, Jesus expected God to save him and give him the throne of David. But at the last moment Jesus realized his folly...and he cried out....My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?

BigRed

Your opinion comes staright from your imagination. It is a fairy tale. It in no way reflects the facts provided in the Bible.

 

[Muffled]

Do you remember when Jesus realized that God had forsaken him? In the Gethsemani, when he prayed three times asking God not to let him walk the Via Dolorosa. He didn't want to partake of that cup. When he realized that he was wasting his time, he said, "Be Thy will done; not mine." Not mine! What was Jesus' will then? Obviously, he didn't want to die on the cross for nobody. Therefore, the poor man was pushed unto the cross against his will. So, it is about time to stop the cliche that Jesus laid his life down of his own accord, because that's not the truth at all.

As usual you make stuff up to fit the concept that you prefer.

Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders, and the chief priests, and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. 32 And he spake the saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
33 But he turning about, and seeing his disciples, rebuked Peter, and saith, Get thee behind me, Satan; for thou mindest not the things of God,

That is definitely not what Jesus was asking.

Luke 22:20 And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, even that which is poured out for you.

Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; remove this cup from me: howbeit not what I will, but what thou wilt.

It is not the way (via dolorosa) that makes Jesus sad but the requirement.

This is not the case. His will is God's will. What Jesus and anyone else facing a similar prospect has to contend with, is the will of the flesh which does not wish to suffer.

On the contrary Jesus knew that he would be successful:
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.
33 But this he said, signifying by what manner of death he should die.

 

[Muffled]

And I would go one step further.....
He saved no one by dying on the cross.

I have a story about this. I was once a counsellor for the Billy Graham crusade in Boston. I was on a bus in company with Assembly of God churchgoers when I received a vision of a great hand reaching down and placing a giant cross on the football field where those who would come forward for salvation would be gathered. I told the churchgoers that Billy Graham would preach about the cross and there would be a great number saved that day. It turned out just that way. It was the only day of the week that he preached on the cross and more people came forward for salvation that day than any other day he preached.