"My God, My God, Why Has Thou Forsaken Me?

[ellenjanuary]

Let's take this a little deeper....

The title quote is not a casual pronouncement.

During His ministry, the Carpenter seemed to have inside information
and unusual abilities.
He had the correct answer whenever questioned.
And His say so was bolstered by His command over everything else.

But during that last hour, as His last breathe is pending....
He turned His face to heaven...and there was no response.

He was indeed forsaken.

Now a proper consideration is at hand.
If the angels are willing to stand back, and allow so much unto the Son of Man...
what then of you during your last hour?

Thief, you're such a troublemaker.

 

[smokydot]

Let's take this a little deeper....
The title quote is not a casual pronouncement.
During His ministry, the Carpenter seemed to have inside information
and unusual abilities.
He had the correct answer whenever questioned.
And His say so was bolstered by His command over everything else.
But during that last hour, as His last breathe is pending....
He turned His face to heaven...and there was no response.
He was indeed forsaken.
Now a proper consideration is at hand.
If the angels are willing to stand back, and allow so much unto the Son of Man...
what then of you during your last hour?

As he died for my sin so that I would not be subject to eternal death, so he was forsaken by God so that I would not be subject to forsakenness by God.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's one. The other interpretation is that these words represent the pain of being "without god" for the moment necessary to take on all the sins of mankind.

If Jesus was God, how could he be "without god"?

If he really was "without god", why would he choose to express himself with a Psalm whose message is basically that even when things appear their darkest, you're never "without god"?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As he died for my sin so that I would not be subject to eternal death, so he was forsaken by God so that I would not be subject to forsakenness by God.

Does this mean that Jesus is not God?

After all, how can one forsake onesself?

 

[Thief]

As he died for my sin so that I would not be subject to eternal death, so he was forsaken by God so that I would not be subject to forsakenness by God.

This is the one piece of Christian dogma that should have been dropped....
a long time ago.

The belief comes from the old practice of 'scapegoating'.
Put your sins unto something else (a goat or lamb)....and when it dies....so too, your sin.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Cleansing someone else of their sin?
Either by teaching them not to...
(do unto others as you would have them do unto you)....or...
forgive them...

Believing that bloodshed is good for you?....no.

 

[smokydot]

This is the one piece of Christian dogma that should have been dropped....
a long time ago.
The belief comes from the old practice of 'scapegoating'.
Put your sins unto something else (a goat or lamb)....and when it dies....so too, your sin.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Cleansing someone else of their sin?
Either by teaching them not to...
(do unto others as you would have them do unto you)....or...
forgive them...
Believing that bloodshed is good for you?....no.

That is the testimoney of both the OT and the NT.

Either you believe the Bible or you don't.
I do.
Evidently, you don't.
It's a matter of faith.

 

[smokydot]

Does this mean that Jesus is not God?
After all, how can one forsake onesself?

Because there are three persons in the Godhead, who are distinct.
The Son of God, the second person, was forsaken by God his Father, the first person.

Likewise, Jesus was also human, as well as divine.
His perfect human nature was subject to such as his divine nature was not, beginning with death.

 

[Thief]

That is the testimoney of both the OT and the NT.

Either you believe the Bible or you don't.
I do.
Evidently, you don't.
It's a matter of faith.

And you prefer bloodshed over the 'golden rule'?

You are seeking salvation hiding behind the cross of a dead man?
or living straight forward...unto others as you would have it done unto you?

 

[smokydot]

And you prefer bloodshed over the 'golden rule'?

I prefer the Truth. I believe the NT is Truth.

You are seeking salvation hiding behind the cross of a dead man?
or living straight forward...unto others as you would have it done unto you?

I am not seeking salvation, I have found salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because there are three persons in the Godhead, who are distinct.
The Son of God, the second person, was forsaken by God his Father, the first person.

But they're all God, aren't they?

To be entirely forsaken by God would require being forsaken by all three persons of the Trinity, no? If any one person in the Godhead is there, then God is there. God can only be absent if all three of them are absent.

 

[Thief]

I prefer the Truth. I believe the NT is Truth.
I am not seeking salvation, I have found salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

yeah well....
I hear that same old salvation rant coming on.....
the same one that should have been dropped a long time ago....
for reasons I have already stated.

 

[smokydot]

yeah well....
I hear that same old salvation rant coming on.....
the same one that should have been dropped a long time ago....
for reasons I have already stated.

You do realize that is simply your personal opinion, carrying no more weight that anyone else's personal opinion, right?

 

[smokydot]

But they're all God, aren't they?

To be entirely forsaken by God would require being forsaken by all three persons of the Trinity, no? If any one person in the Godhead is there, then God is there. God can only be absent if all three of them are absent.

Only Jesus is also human. His human nature is not subject to the same laws as the divine spirits of the Trinity. In his human nature, he can experience forsakenness by his divine spirit Father.

 

[Missy Knight]

What happened, that made Christ call out on the cross? Evidently, Christ had tried to 'give up His life', and nothing happened, and yet, The Father had 'commanded' that Jesus had this power.

The ministers of the Protestant churches that I attended, believe that The Father could not handle the sins of the world that Jesus took upon Himself, and thus 'turned away' for a moment.

Is it possible, that Jesus thought that His work was finished, but it was not? Was satan given one last chance to 'tempt' Jesus? If Jesus would have 'cursed' The Father, would all of His work be for nothing? Is it possible, that Jesus had to prove, that under the most fearful conditions, that He could 'remain worthy until the end', as required of all Christians? Jesus faced the possibility of having His legs broken, if He remained on the cross. We see in Job, that satan could tempt Job in any way, but was not allowed to break a single bone. In the case of Christ, Christ must have been in terrible fear and confusion, and yet, He assumed nothing. He did the correct thing. He asked His Father.

Lets start with the topic of thread .Why was god/son of god pleading for help on cross??

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

Lets start with the topic of thread .Why was god/son of god pleading for help on cross??

"Right on."

 

[MyJesusis#1]

Yes, that was about Jesus not having His bones broken, nothing to do about Job, other than Satan could not take Job's life.

 

[free spirit]

What happened, that made Christ call out on the cross? Evidently, Christ had tried to 'give up His life', and nothing happened, and yet, The Father had 'commanded' that Jesus had this power.

The ministers of the Protestant churches that I attended, believe that The Father could not handle the sins of the world that Jesus took upon Himself, and thus 'turned away' for a moment.

Is it possible, that Jesus thought that His work was finished, but it was not? Was satan given one last chance to 'tempt' Jesus? If Jesus would have 'cursed' The Father, would all of His work be for nothing? Is it possible, that Jesus had to prove, that under the most fearful conditions, that He could 'remain worthy until the end', as required of all Christians? Jesus faced the possibility of having His legs broken, if He remained on the cross. We see in Job, that satan could tempt Job in any way, but was not allowed to break a single bone. In the case of Christ, Christ must have been in terrible fear and confusion, and yet, He assumed nothing. He did the correct thing. He asked His Father.

The prophet Isaiah gives us a graphic picture of what the Lord Jesus accomplished with the full knowledge and approval of God, for the law had to be fulfilled in order to reverse what Adam did. In this case there was no man on earth who could do that, therefore Jesus was made flesh and in so doing He was made sin, rendering Himself as a substitute guilt offering In other words, He stood in for mankind, for we read in Isaiah’s 53:10-12:

10) “But the Lord was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; if He would render Himself as a guilty offering, He will see His offspring; He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand.

11) As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; by His knowledge the righteous One, My servant, will justify the many, as He will bear their iniquities.

12) Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the booty with the strong; because He poured out Himself to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet He Himself bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors.”

Verse 10 above has no ambiguities for we read: “if He would render Himself as a guilty offering.” In other words, if He would agree to become sinful flesh. The first part of verse 11 reads: “As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied.” If we read the above phrase without knowing which kind of anguish God is seeing in Jesus we are not able to fully understand what is taking place, for if we see only the physical pain we are blinded to the struggle that is taking place between His faithful human spirit and His flesh, which was sold into bondage to sin. Paul however, gives us a glimpse of the anguish of Jesus’ soul resisting the assailing temptation, for we read in Hebrews 12:4: “You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin.”We read the confirmation in Luke 22:44, for it says: “And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.” The mission that Jesus undertook was to die sinless and fulfil God’s law, thus depriving sin of the power of the law. As a result of that, He also freed the flesh from the slavery of sin.

 

[Thief]

You do realize that is simply your personal opinion, carrying no more weight that anyone else's personal opinion, right?

I have heard this rebuttal so many times......'personal opinion'......

And whether I take it 'personal' or not....
whether you take it 'personal' or not....

At what point do you actually say...'nay'?

 

[Caladan]

What happened, that made Christ call out on the cross? Evidently, Christ had tried to 'give up His life', and nothing happened, and yet, The Father had 'commanded' that Jesus had this power.

The ministers of the Protestant churches that I attended, believe that The Father could not handle the sins of the world that Jesus took upon Himself, and thus 'turned away' for a moment.

Is it possible, that Jesus thought that His work was finished, but it was not? Was satan given one last chance to 'tempt' Jesus? If Jesus would have 'cursed' The Father, would all of His work be for nothing? Is it possible, that Jesus had to prove, that under the most fearful conditions, that He could 'remain worthy until the end', as required of all Christians? Jesus faced the possibility of having His legs broken, if He remained on the cross. We see in Job, that satan could tempt Job in any way, but was not allowed to break a single bone. In the case of Christ, Christ must have been in terrible fear and confusion, and yet, He assumed nothing. He did the correct thing. He asked His Father.

I think the story is much more practical and down to earth than that. when a man is crucified on a cross according to Roman law, he is tormented, he is in great physical pain and anguish. there is no big surprise for the man to call out for his God in this moment of pain and abandonment.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think the story is much more practical and down to earth than that. when a man is crucified on a cross according to Roman law, he is tormented, he is in great physical pain and anguish. there is no big surprise for the man to call out for his God in this moment of pain and abandonment.

I remember a line from a film (the movie adaptation of Anne of Green Gables, surprisingly) that's stuck with me: "to despair is to turn your back on God". I think it's perfectly understandable for a human being, but I don't understand it for the embodiment of the Living God.