My son has joined islam

[beenie]

i'm a Muslim, and i completely understand your concern. the media has done a fantastic job of portraying Muslims in a very bad light. that wouldn't be possible if there weren't bad Muslims committing these acts. i'm a mother of six daughters; my oldest will be a teenager later this year. my best advice to you is to visit the mosque your son attends and speak to the Imam as others have suggested. read an English translation of the Qur'an so you can get an idea of what's being discussed. Mestemia is right; teachings vary from mosque to mosque as they do in churches.

Wow. I most certainly did.

But you clearly haven't.

Let me guess: 9/11 was a US gov't conspiracy blamed on muslims. Right?

I can admit that Christians kill people at abortion clinics. I can admit that the catholic church has its horrendous share of scandals. Why can't you admit that muslims kill infidels and expect heaven and a bunch of virgins as a reward for giving their lives?

YOU, my friend, need to look at both sides.

After all, you told us all that beheading is merciful and involves no suffering.

Seek help for that.

jump to conclusions much? i don't see anyone denying that Muslims have done those things. they're wrong and misguided; what else can we say? i'm not going to point out what Christians do; it's deflecting from the point. i was deeply saddened when 9/11 happened; a very close Muslim friend of mine lost her first cousin who worked on one of the top floors of the World Trade Center. wartime is the only time Muslims are allowed to fight for life...and ONLY when attacked.

all this punishment talk, etc. in Islam...what does this have to do with your son converting to Islam because of a girlfriend?

Seems to me that he should be looking at the exact same sites his son is looking at.
Because then he is much more likely to get a better understanding of the version of Islam his son is looking at.

yes, this.

This situation sounds quite serious. Normally I wouldn't say this, but you need to crack down on your son. One of my uncles did the same thing when a cousin tried to convert to Roman Catholicism. For example if he plans to fast during Ramadan say that he must eat with the family or he doesn't eat at all. It's your house you set the rules. But after all this is America and people do have the right to choose what religion.

The thing is that we should make it convenient for them not to choose to hold extremist beleifs. Allowing freedom for anyone to be "Muslim" but using knowledge and information to severely condemn their beliefs. We must MAKE extremism socially unacceptable, as people fear rejection and want acception.

If he's getting his information on the Internet, there are a few sites for you and him to check out together:

Main Page - WikiIslam , Jihad Watch and Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time

are good places to start.

Also I recommend some of Wafa Sultan's videos. Wafa Sultan is a psychiatrist who as analyzed the Quran and come to some pretty profound conclusions. You can see her videos on youtube.

As for the jihad-deniers here, don't mind them too much. It is a part of taqiyya to lie about the negative aspects of religion.

Best of luck to you.

are you serious? Taqqiya is NOT what it is portrayed on that video. provide some REAL sourced. clearly some Muslims abuse the allowances of taqqiya, but they are breaking the rules, plain and simple.

I have been to several pro-muslim sites. They expend a great deal of effort to debunk things, and deny (as does our friend in this thread) that Hussein and Bin Laden were true muslims. HUssein, Bin Laden, and their followers would beg to differ. I am sure the highjackers on 9-11 would also tell you they were muslim.

There are Chriatians who deny that catholics, protestants, or other sects are TRUE Christians, but all are. Just as the best and worst of islam are all muslims.

My son goes to an actual mosque, not a website. He developed a crush on a muslim girl and next thing you know he converts to islam.

you're right; all Muslim sites should spend their time posting articles about how very bad we all are and apologize for less than 1% of 1% of the Muslim population's behavior.

i don't care what the hijackers on 9/11 and Osama bin Laden call themselves; i can call myself a wolf but that doesn't make me one. if you commit acts against innocent lives/citizens, you are NOT following Islam.

your son will either stay with this girl and be a Muslim or he'll change his mind like he has before.

Somehow I don't find these sources to be reliable. I think Shredmeister wants his son to have an educated idea, there is no need to use these kind of scarecrows.

agreed.

Then I would highly recommend going to the same Mosque.
Speak to someone there and learn what it is they teach there.
I have been in several Mosques and sometimes what they teach from one Mosque to another is quite different.

Though to be perfectly honest with you, it seems that he will get over being a Muslim as soon as his crush breaks his heart.

agree again.

Wow.

If there is a friend's list here, I'm adding you.

i urge you to pick your friends wisely. watch out for those with glacier-sized chips on their shoulders.

A religion IS people. How can you discuss a religion without discussing people? Otherwise it's just books and buildings.

agree to an extent, but people obviously don't always follow religion, do they? hate the sin, not the sinner...we're human and screw up the religion all the time.

gee, way to hide your bias.....
Not.

:yes:

Hmm... Ask him what he thinks of Islam in six months after he breaks up with the girl and he has a bunch of angry bearded men with guns and knives yelling "Allahu Akbar" and chasing him for "apostasy".

pure conjecture and stupidity.

:biglaugh:

classy.

Muhammad's wife was 9. Gross. My daughter is 8.

That is just plain wrong, and you know it. Dude was 53.

whatever; read about all the characters in any holy book and their sexual behavior and we'll all have turning stomachs.

Video of Stoning to Death - Islam in action

http://www.iheu.org/node/1540

Muslims kill converts to Christianity: BBC NEWS | Europe | Ten arrested over Turkey murders

propagandize much? these people are just SICK. read the laws on carrying out such punishments and you'll see that these people are abusing them left and right..it's called being uneducated and stupid.

Double standard. You shouldn't criticize Islam for being violent when the Bible contains twice as many violent passages than Quran.

I.e.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] (Hosea 13:16)[/FONT]

"Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)


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i normally don't like quoting other holy books to make a point, but i do see why you did it. two wrongs don't make a right...but i am willing to say that these verses, isolated out of their context, seem inhumane and barbaric, much like verses from the Qur'an.

Not really. Islam considers the previous texts to be corrupted and untrustworthy. The Quran is supposed to be the perfect revelation.



Nothing you said refuted my points. Even if Islam did follow the books of the Bible, that doesn't change the fact that you are criticizing Islam for being violent when your very own holy book is more violent than the religion you are criticizing.

So, can you honestly be disturbed by the supposed murders of Muhommed when your God committed global genocide and commanded that infants be "dashed to pieces" and heretical women be "ripped up"?


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good point.

To the OP, has it ever occured to you that your reaction might be the reason he didn't want to tell you? You've cut him off from his siblings, for God's sake! How is this any better than a Biblethumper disowning their queer offspring?

yeah, that should work really well. your son is months away from 18; choose how you handle this very carefully if you wish to have a decent relationship with your son. Mestemia's advice is spot-on: go where he goes and read what he reads. make sure he's not getting in over your head. THAT is parenting, not cutting him off from his siblings.

good luck.

 

[.lava]

Beheading is a form of death sentence. Its more merciful than hanging or electricution, as the person does not suffer.

really? would you please provide Islamic source that proves it is Islamic? beheading a living human being is extremely painful and barbaric. it is unacceptable and it does not exist in Qur'an, show me if you believe there is, please

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[beenie]

really? would you please provide Islamic source that proves it is Islamic? beheading a living human being is extremely painful and barbaric. it is unacceptable and it does not exist in Qur'an, show me if you believe there is, please

.

lol i meant to quote this as well. i don't understand where Muslim93 is coming from regarding beheading AND the suicide bombings being allowed in war.

sources, please.

 

[.lava]

lol i meant to quote this as well. i don't understand where Muslim93 is coming from regarding beheading AND the suicide bombings being allowed in war.

sources, please.

is there a claim suicide bombings are OK? well, wow! suicide is never OK. Muslims need to read Qur'an

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[beenie]

First of all, theres something very important taht you need to know.

As much as there are bad Muslims, there are Christians, Jews, Hindus etc.

Beheading is a form of death sentence. Its more merciful than hanging or electricution, as the person does not suffer.

When it comes to murder, Islam is very clear on this. You kill, youre a criminal. That includes suicide bombers, unless its in a form of war, like in Israel for ex. But bombing some random crowded area, thats not Islam.

Where are Christians and Westerners attacked? Again, Islam is clear on this matter. Youre not allowed to attack any person, whether a Muslim Christian Atheist or whatever. And please specify when you say attacks. Where? When?

Like I said, this has nothing to do with Islam, and it happens all over the world.

from an earlier post. i have never seen that in Qur'an either.

 

[Tristesse]

Perhaps re-reading what i wrote would clarify the matter for you.

I have issues with any religion or sect strongly associated with acts of violence. There are branches of Christianity that are just off the charts WHACKOS when it comes to matters such as these(eg abortion clinic shootings in the name of God). I disapprove of islam much the same as I disapprove of the Westboro baptist folks.

And please remember, I AM his father. He is a minor.

Let's be clear on something else: you are criticizing my viewpoint, yet your only response is basically "You're bad. What's your problem?"

Hopefully you are capable of more than that.

While islam has many more violent extremists then christianity has today, the operative word being "today." Islam doesn't preach anything worse then christianity, it's just that the followers of islam seem to take their religion more seriously, while most christian sects have secular values holding their religion in check. There are plenty of reasonable and non violent muslims. I would appreciate the fact that your son came to a different conclusion then you.

 

[.lava]

Shredmeister, i suggest you to offer love and compassion to your son regardles what he choses or whatever reason he pretends to be this or that. maybe he is not matured enough to make real decisions and maybe he needs to experience different angles. i would not know. though i do know it is not nice or friendly to force someone who needs your support in life to chose between his family and his path. specially he is still a teenager. that's all i could say as a human being.
things i could say as a Muslim is another issue. first of all, yes we are commanded to treat our parents with respect even if they were non-Muslims but that does not mean we have to obey them. we obey God and we don't need to leave our path to make others happy including relatives but of course we should be respectful and lovely towards them. though it is possible to stay away from parents in case things go out of control and it becomes impossible to keep peace between because of expectations of parents or their life style.
like many others, you consider a few patterns that media portrays as 'A random Muslim' as an ordinary Muslim. oppressive and cruel people are not welcomed in Islam. i suggest you to learn Islam and refuse any hateful speech that comes from any Islamic source.

i can write more but not sure if it is needed. love your son only because he is your son, not because he is a non-Muslim or a Muslim. that would be shallow and superficial. if you expect something better from your son (and by that i don't mean not chosing Islam but making decisions for good reasons), you have to set your own attitude as an example. if not, your words might mean nothing. i think it could have very negative effect on your child if he thinks that you love him only if he is not a Muslim. that's not love, that's politics

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[beenie]

one also has to understand the political and economical situation that Muslim-populated societies are in. i'm not excusing their behavior in the least, but desperation mixed with illiteracy and poverty is VERY dangerous. some societies have put themselves there by failing to progress and adapt to modern society (people are afraid of change and loss of culture and religion) and others have been held back by outside influences. failure to see both is putting blinders on. no one will convince me that the West doesn't have a hand in the failure of Muslim countries to thrive; they take advantage of weaknesses. who wouldn't? not blaming, just pointing it out.

i'll agree that some Muslims are very passionate about Islam, and they've been falsely taught that their MISPLACED martyrdom/jihad will earn them the rewards of heaven. the vast majority of Muslims are just leading their lives like anyone else. prayer is very private and personal; fasting is the same...the rest is either in your head or on it.

 

[.lava]

from an earlier post. i have never seen that in Qur'an either.

that's real poison. committed suicide is one way ticket to hell.


4:29 O you who believe (who are âmenû)! Do not eat up your property among yourselves falsely (in vanity, unjustly) except that it be trading by your mutual consent And do not kill yourselves (and one another). Surely Allah is Most Merciful to you.

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[.lava]

and for the record;

INFIDEL DOES NOT MEAN NON-MUSLIM. a Muslim who's in hidden shirk (someone who worships his own ego and call it God) is also a infidel. God knows who is who. those who declare war on people simply for chosing other path than Islam are most likely in hidden shirk. God is the one who's given us free will and noone needs permission of some guy to use a tool that's given directly by God

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[TashaN]

really? would you please provide Islamic source that proves it is Islamic? beheading a living human being is extremely painful and barbaric. it is unacceptable and it does not exist in Qur'an, show me if you believe there is, please

.

I believe he was talking about capital punishment for murderers, not the beheading of innocent civilians.

 

[Evandr]

and for the record;

INFIDEL DOES NOT MEAN NON-MUSLIM. a Muslim who's in hidden shirk (someone who worships his own ego and call it God) is also a infidel. God knows who is who. those who declare war on people simply for chosing other path than Islam are most likely in hidden shirk. God is the one who's given us free will and noone needs permission of some guy to use a tool that's given directly by God

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.lava,I wish that there were more of this type of talk in mainstream media. Why have not any noteworthy Muslim Clerics of position and authority in the American Islamic community stood and declared such a belief and their disdain for such extreme activity? Why are perpetrators of extreme violence often received as heroes while nary a word is publicly uttered in opposition of it by those who could have an influence in the American Islamic community?

 

[.lava]

I believe he was talking about capital punishment for murderers, not the beheading of innocent civilians.

hi TashaN

i was talking about beheading a person alone; innocent or criminal. do you believe it is Islamic? if you do so, i would like to know why you think it is

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[Tarheeler]

.lava,I wish that there were more of this type of talk in mainstream media. Why have not any noteworthy Muslim Clerics of position and authority in the American Islamic community stood and declared such a belief and their disdain for such extreme activity? Why are perpetrators of extreme violence often received as heroes while nary a word is publicly uttered in opposition of it by those who could have an influence in the American Islamic community?

It couldn't possibly be because the mainstream media is more interested in the ratings that anger and divisiveness generate than actually showing an unbiased story, could it?

I live in a military town that has a small Muslim community and a single mosque. Shortly after 9/11 the Imam scheduled a small rally to show the community's support for the military and to denounce the terrorist actions. One person from the media ( a columnist for the local newspaper) showed up; the entire media coverage for the event was 3 lines in an opinion piece on the last page of the local section of the newspaper.

Counter this with the exposure given to outspoken fundamentalists and anti-American rhetoric, and I think most people could see why it would appear that the majority of Muslims are silent. In my experience, they are far from silent; the problem is that no one is listening to them.

 

[TashaN]

hi TashaN

i was talking about beheading a person alone; innocent or criminal. do you believe it is Islamic? if you do so, i would like to know why you think it is

.

Capital Punishment in Islam

 

[.lava]

Capital Punishment in Islam

so? who did write that?
i don't believe most of it but i guess you do. because of these Bid'at Islam is forgotten and Muslims are weak. anyways, no need to discuss and go off topic

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[fatima_bintu_islam]

Wow wow wow , lot lot of misconceptions to be cleared for the OP but Ill try and focus on this specific one:

I have asked him if i am now the infidel. If i am the enemy. He said no. If holy war were declared, I asked, and he were ordered to kill me would he try? He said no.

Quran ( 13: 15)

14. And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years give thanks to Me and to your parents, unto Me is the final destination.15. But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me others that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not, but behave with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who turns to Me in repentance and in obedience. Then to Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what you used to do.


Thats what Islam is telling him to do.



And also I very much liked this advice ( Quoted it but forgot who wrote it on this thread) :

You should try to learn more about Islam, and his beliefs. Perhaps you should go to the mosque yourself and see what kind of Islam they teach there. Make sure he's not getting involved with the wrong crowd. Generally American Islam seems to be rather more liberal and moderate. Can't say the same for the mosque that's not so far away from me, though..

If he claims he is serious, then be indifferent to him: chances are he will either stay because he truly is, or leave because he is no longer getting any attention from you. Don't just read Islam sites. Read the Quran.

Wake him up for fajr (morning prayer), send him to go pray at the appropriate times, refuse to feed him during Ramadan (coming up, you know). If he doesn't like it because it's just a fad, chances are he won't stay. Don't let him eat any candies with gelatine (as it includes pork) in it.

If he doesn't stay, it's because it was a fad. It'll be more obvious when he's not allowed to eat many of his favourite candies, and is starving whether or not he's most likely to stick with it.

And good luck

 

[TashaN]

so? who did write that?
i don't believe most of it but i guess you do. because of these Bid'at Islam is forgotten and Muslims are weak. anyways, no need to discuss and go off topic

.

OK, you can ignore everything being said there. Just read the verses in the link and tell me what does it mean.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Capital Punishment in Islam

Finally a good post about the subject, barakallahu feek

 

[.lava]

OK, you can ignore everything being said there. Just read the verses in the link and tell me what does it mean.

i am familiar with them. certain crimes could be punished with death penalty though that's not what i am opposing. i must add, no verses are there that say adultery or homosexuality earn capital punishment. i don't know any verse about beheading people either. give me number of verses if you say there is

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