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My son has joined islam

Evandr

Stripling Warrior
It couldn't possibly be because the mainstream media is more interested in the ratings that anger and divisiveness generate than actually showing an unbiased story, could it?

I live in a military town that has a small Muslim community and a single mosque. Shortly after 9/11 the Imam scheduled a small rally to show the community's support for the military and to denounce the terrorist actions. One person from the media ( a columnist for the local newspaper) showed up; the entire media coverage for the event was 3 lines in an opinion piece on the last page of the local section of the newspaper.

Counter this with the exposure given to outspoken fundamentalists and anti-American rhetoric, and I think most people could see why it would appear that the majority of Muslims are silent. In my experience, they are far from silent; the problem is that no one is listening to them.

Unfortunately what you say is all too true, but if a major player, someone akin to a Mormon apostle or the head of a catholic diocese, in the Muslim community were to step up and make a statment then I think that the media would not turn a deaf ear.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
Unfortunately what you say is all too true, but if a major player, someone akin to a Mormon apostle or the head of a catholic diocese, in the Muslim community were to step up and make a statment then I think that the media would not turn a deaf ear.

I think your wrong about that.

Many want to view Muslims as evil tyrants hell bent on the destruction of the west. And the media, if nothing else, has the desires of the masses memorized. They're more than happy to give us what we want.

Do an internet search for Muslim clerics who denounce the terror attacks, and you'll get tons of results; all from small time news services and websites. They've been speaking out since the beginning.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
SHREDMEISTER-

I once had a conversation with a young man that converted to Islam in jail.
I hope there is a difference because he said we were going to get what's coming to us.
[Not meaning anything good]

He went on and on about all the bad things about this country and hammered about the time of southern slavery.
I asked him is he was glad he lived in the country that freed the slaves? _____ He started to reply with the sound of the letter 'y' but cut himself short.

I have also found that many do not know very much about Christ's teachings although they have been a member of Christendom for a long time. They can not answer simple Bible questions but seem to know a lot more about Islam's teachings rather than what the Bible really teaches. Also, during the time when the 'Moonies" were popular I recall too that many converts did not know much about Bible teachings even though raised in Christendom. Makes one wonder if the clergy are teaching what Jesus taught or?
 

McBell

Unbound
Why have not any noteworthy Muslim Clerics of position and authority in the American Islamic community stood and declared such a belief and their disdain for such extreme activity?

I have seen more onetime a tv crew at the local Mosque interviewing the local Muslims and not once have I seen the interviews aired.

Why are perpetrators of extreme violence often received as heroes while nary a word is publicly uttered in opposition of it by those who could have an influence in the American Islamic community?
Because it is not what the media thinks the American people want to hear.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Whether it turns out to be a good thing or bad thing, even though he is a minor, I don't think there is anything you can do about what is inside his mind and heart. It's up to him. I think it's best to maintain open lines of communication, accept that this is what he's doing, ask him about it, and accept his answers.

Like most religions, Islam can mean a wide variety of things. It could turn out to mean discipline and spirituality. Or it could turn out to be John Walker Lindh.

That's why I think it's best to strengthen your relationship and maintain good communication with him.

OTOH, if he decides to travel to Yemen, you're in trouble.

As several people have mentioned, it is common for young people to explore different approaches to religion, and I don't see anything wrong with that.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
.lava,I wish that there were more of this type of talk in mainstream media. Why have not any noteworthy Muslim Clerics of position and authority in the American Islamic community stood and declared such a belief and their disdain for such extreme activity? Why are perpetrators of extreme violence often received as heroes while nary a word is publicly uttered in opposition of it by those who could have an influence in the American Islamic community?

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Satisfied?

The mainstream media does not ignore it - I've seen numerous statements from Islamic scholars condemning terrorism. But it's not sensational, it doesn't sell papers, it doesn't make the front page. Those who wish to maintain the illusion of having an easily identified "enemy" simply choose to ignore it.
 

Evandr

Stripling Warrior
Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Satisfied?

The mainstream media does not ignore it - I've seen numerous statements from Islamic scholars condemning terrorism. But it's not sensational, it doesn't sell papers, it doesn't make the front page. Those who wish to maintain the illusion of having an easily identified "enemy" simply choose to ignore it.

I can't argue with that, it's too sad but it's probably true. I've been dealing with the FDA, the AMA, the FTC, the FCC, and other government and corporate thugs for the past 3 years and media control and corruption is rampant from big business and big government - If you want to know where it stems from, like you all have been saying - just follow the money, human life is irrelevant by comparison.
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend S,

My son has joined islam
I am not at all okay with this.

He is 17 and did this behind his mother's back(we divorced years ago) and didn;t bother discussing it with me first.

Personally find the history of your son as stated by you shows him to lack conviction about any religion and could be him dating a muslim girl for him to follow one religion today and another tomorrow; a FAD with him which passes according to season.

The above are just superficial aspects when one considers religion as a path or way towards BEING! and to that end one needs to understand that each individual is a separate individual who has his/her own free will and which should not be trespassed by another even a parent without permission.

Firstly to be a father means a great responsibility and towards which you have yourself not shown your own commitment and is responsible for any gap created between two individuals who are father and son and cause of which today leads to your inner being crying!

Personally would state, *Its never too late*; and so first start being a father till your son understands that yes this is my father to whom should look upto as an example in life.

More as we go along.
Suggest do not allow the *ego* to come in between not only between your son and you but also while reading this and like you to respond rather than react to find the best alternative in the given situation and live a harmonious life.

Love & rgds
 

blackout

Violet.
Try introducing him to a nice Left Hand Path girl.

Sorry, couldn't help mySelf. :D

If he was a bit younger I would suggest UU Religious Education.
LEARN about different religions
instead of joining them.

I would be completely opposed if any of my minor children
joined a dogmatic religion.
ANY dogmatic religion mind you.

Anyway, perhaps some kind of world religions course
might interest him.
It's ALWAYS better to be a well informed consumer
before 'buying' anything.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
i don't know any verse about beheading people either. give me number of verses if you say there is

.

"...If anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people" (Qur'an 5:32).

"...Take not life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law. Thus does He command you, so that you may learn wisdom" (Qur'an 6:151).
 
whatever; read about all the characters in any holy book and their sexual behavior and we'll all have turning stomachs.
Muhammad did this. He is your prophet, is he not? Not the finest example.

Just sayin'...Jesus didn't do things like this.






THAT is parenting, not cutting him off from his siblings.
My son is deceitful, disrespectful, and self-centered. I have an edge on you here: I KNOW him. He is sneaky and a compulsive liar.

He made large-scale threats against a school and its students, for which he was arrested and charged. He completed the informal probation and joined islam shortly thereafter.

Believe me, after the nature of his threats, the mosque itself should want no affiliation with my son. It could easily become a PR nightmare for them should he decide to act on any of his prior threats now that he has joined islam.

I hope this clears things up a bit.
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
My son is deceitful, disrespectful, and self-centered. I have an edge on you here: I KNOW him. He is sneaky and a compulsive liar.

He made large-scale threats against a school and its students, for which he was arrested and charged. He completed the informal probation and joined islam shortly thereafter.

Believe me, after the nature of his threats, the mosque itself should want no affiliation with my son. It could easily become a PR nightmare for them should he decide to act on any of his prior threats now that he has joined islam.
I hope this clears things up a bit.
Perhaps the mosque will help guide him to a better way of living, then. If he is serious about it, that is.

If he is not serious, I fail to see a point in worrying about it, but you are going the wrong way about reacting to your son joining Islam: you have cut him off from his own family, that will get you nowhere fast.

Rather than worrying about him joining/messing in this religion, perhaps you should try to find out why he acts like that. Why does he lie? Why does he make threats? Does he have psychological problems, does he feel lonely so he enjoys getting the attention, does he feel as though he has no foundation, or has bad relations with his family? You need to find out these things.

After all, this is your son. As a father myself (although my kids are still very young), I know you love him, even if you are frustrated with the way he acts and the things that he does. Show him your love, and the chances are, he will grow up faster. Have a father-son activity, like fishing, hunting, cross-country walk, playing videogames together, or anything you both enjoy. Even visiting the mosque will probably help your son and yourself get closer to one another.
 
Sadly, I have done all the things you've mentioned with him. I have been there every step of the way and he has told me as much. His behavior is puzzling to me for that very reason.

Yes, you are correct: I love my son. However, his utter disdain for his father's concern is maddening. He also runs roughshod on his mother doing as he pleases despite her concerns. As I mentioned, we are no longer together and have not been for some time. She has confided in me that she has given up on trying to get him to be honest. It is now her intention to leave the state as soon as he goes off to college.

That's another issue. He had been working diligently toward a degree in architecture and had applied at one of the country's premier schools for architecture. Now he is saying he may take "a year or so off" before he goes to college. In most(not ALL, before anyone cites specific examples to the contrary)cases, these students do NOT go on to complete their studies. A good number of individuals NEVER go to college at all.

Sorry. I veered off-topic.

Anyway, I do not want to permanently cut him off from his family, but I gave him a choice. If he is STUPID enough to choose a religion over his family, he deserves what he gets. It's a cold thing to say, i realize. But come on! I could NEVER give up my family for any religion, job, or virtually ANYTHING.

His priorities are all askew.

That said, I am holding my ground for now. I want to see how he handles this situation. At some point, i will allow him to see his brother and sister again, but it will be supervised.

I hope he wakes up and realizes the value of family. It is just plain stupid to choose a religion over your family.
 

blackout

Violet.
It sounds to me like visits with his younger siblings
should be supervised ANYWAY,
regardless of his religious whatevers.

Aparantely he's almost a legal adult?
Just let him go and do his thing.

His mom needs to move on.
Let him move on.
 
Aparantely he's almost a legal adult?
Just let him go and do his thing.

His mom needs to move on.
Let him move on.

ALMOST being the key word. He can do his own thing when he is an adult. Meantime, i'm still Dad. i'm not going to run form my responsibilities. This young man is spiraling out of control on many fronts. As a parent, I have to at least TRY to get him on a better path. I'm not going to just "give up" and hope everything will turn out okay.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Hmm, but if he actually has faith in this religion then would he really choose family over religion? I mean, do you have real faith in Jesus? If so, would you choose family or religion if faced with that choice?
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Sadly, I have done all the things you've mentioned with him. I have been there every step of the way and he has told me as much. His behavior is puzzling to me for that very reason.
Persevere, that's all you can do. Show him you love him, and he will accept it. I know it sounds a bit harsh, but I don't think he's the most mature for his age.

Yes, you are correct: I love my son. However, his utter disdain for his father's concern is maddening.
What things does he do despite your concern, besides the religion?

Is he doing drugs, an alcoholic, a violent hooligan, a street racer, making graffiti on nurseries, or walking around with a knife in his pocket ready to stab someone who looks at him funny?

Or is he just being a normal teenager, completely ignoring what you say, staying out late, listening to crap music, and doing things to annoy you?

She has confided in me that she has given up on trying to get him to be honest. It is now her intention to leave the state as soon as he goes off to college.
Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear that. That's no good, though.


He had been working diligently toward a degree in architecture and had applied at one of the country's premier schools for architecture. Now he is saying he may take "a year or so off" before he goes to college.
Maybe it will be good for him: maybe he will find himself during that year off. I'd suggest you gently encourage him to go to college after a year though.


It's a cold thing to say, i realize. But come on! I could NEVER give up my family for any religion, job, or virtually ANYTHING.
You need to potentially look at it from his point of view if he is truly serious about his choice. Put yourself in his shoes, with the religions reversed:

You are young. Confused. You have bad habits. Your parents are split up, and you seem to have bad relations with them. You get no inner peace from your religion that your parent/s has/have. You try various mosques. You decide to try Christianity for inner peace. You adhere to it. You don't expect others to join it. You don't see them as the enemy. You speak to your father. Your father is incredibly angry and cuts you off from your siblings.

Is that fair? Of course it's not.
His priorities are all askew.
He is young.

That said, I am holding my ground for now. I want to see how he handles this situation. At some point, i will allow him to see his brother and sister again, but it will be supervised.
No, you should let him see them often. You will only make yourself the bad guy. Why, exactly, do you need to stop him seeing his siblings because he's converted to another religion? Would you do if he said he was becoming a Wiccan, a Mormon, a Buddhist, a Hindu?

I hope he wakes up and realizes the value of family. It is just plain stupid to choose a religion over your family.
In the same way, I hope you too realize the value of your family: it's stupid to cut off your child from his own family because of religion. Family should transcend religion. The only thing you run the risk of doing here is losing your son. You don't want to do that, I am sure.

Religion is something personal. You choose your religion, even if others do not approve of it. He's almost 18, almost an adult, he can pick whatever religion he likes and there will be nothing you can do about it as you will no longer be his guardian, just his parent. Another person should not influence your religion.

It is you who put these restrictions on him, it is you who has made him be put in a position where he is stuck between his own family and his religion. That's not nice of you, and you know it.

Save yourself from the potential heartache of losing your son. Save him the heartache of having to choose between things that are important to him.

You're his father, after all.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Muhammad's wife was 9. Gross. My daughter is 8.

That is just plain wrong, and you know it. Dude was 53.

Muhammad did this. He is your prophet, is he not? Not the finest example.

Just sayin'...Jesus didn't do things like this.

Aren't you mainly asking what to do with your son? Whats up with these infantile comments? a couple of muslims have responded to you and gave you their opinions, perhaps have a little manners not to unnecessarily make fun of their prophet?

And don't feel so special by the way, you're new so you just don't know that this topic of Muhammad's marriage have been covered many times.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Anyway, I do not want to permanently cut him off from his family, but I gave him a choice. If he is STUPID enough to choose a religion over his family, he deserves what he gets. It's a cold thing to say, i realize. But come on! I could NEVER give up my family for any religion, job, or virtually ANYTHING.

Which is stranger, a 17 year old not willing to give up his beliefs and his choice of religion (which are a given), or you who are merely unable to handle the fact that he chose the "wrong" religion? I'm just saying, your response to this is simply unconstructive and unexplainable. He's a teenager, you're the responsible one in this story.

That said, I am holding my ground for now. I want to see how he handles this situation.

Even if it turns out that the way he handles this will be badly? Whats more important, merely to force him out of this false religion, or to make sure he's actually doing what he wants and acting responsibly?

I hope he wakes up and realizes the value of family. It is just plain stupid to choose a religion over your family.

I hope you realize that you shouldn't put that choice to him in the first place.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Hold the horses, people - Shredmeister made a comment that seems to be being overlooked:

He is a compulsive liar.

He made large-scale threats against a school and its students, for which he was arrested and charged. He completed the informal probation and joined islam shortly thereafter.

I keep hearing comments along the line of "He's just a teenager - don't be so rough on him, don't cut him off from his family, etc etc."

The above described behavior is NOT normal teenager behavior. This is the behavior of a very disturbed young man.

In my opinion, he needs psychological help - from a psychiatrist, not simply a "counselor." And until his tendency toward violence is assessed and under control, his interaction with his siblings needs to be very strictly monitored.

He sounds so imbalanced and disturbed that his time with his siblings should probably be limited as well. If the truth be known, they would probably appreciate being shielded a bit from his behavior.

When it comes to violence and threats of violence, breaking the law and endangering others, one must take a very strong stand. The stakes are simply too high to treat the offender with kid gloves and sweetness and light.

I support a zero tolerance level for violence and threats of violence. You should make it clear to your son that you love him - but also make it clear that you will intervene swiftly and thoroughly (in ways that will be unpleasant to him) if he continues to be violent - in words or actions.

I would get law enforcement involved if necessary.

Continual lying is another very destructive trait, and one that is very hard to live with and operate with as a family. Besides being irritating and undermining of trust, it is extremely disrespectful. I would make sure that there are consequences that "fit the crime" when it comes to his lying. If he uses the car and then lies about where he went, I'd take his driving priviledges away. If he stays out past his curfew and then lies about what he was doing, I would ground him. If he lies about doing his homework, I would make him stay in the living room and finish it, and then review it - and I'd call his teachers or whatever (here we can get online to see homework assignments) to check up on his follow thru. You get the picture.

It's very trying. But get this - he's 17, not 14. If he continues to refuse to abide by the household standards and expectations, and make the people who support him tense, frustrated and miserable, I would tell him it's time to move out when he graduates.

As my oldest son loves to say, at that point he will be a grown *** man.
 
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