My views on homosexuality

[Vinayaka]

Choice: Be a homosexual, or be a heterosexual. For those who think it is a choice, then just when did you choose? I never chose to be this way. I just am (a heterosexual). Its all about hate, of ignorance. People react to dogs being eaten in China, or horses being eaten in America. Its just ignorance that others might be different than you. Same thing with race. Ignorance runs amok.

 

[The Wizard]

I wasn't around for that conversation. Could you give me a quick summation of your views on homosexuality disproving evolution?

I actually just had yet another conversation with a group of people the day before yesterday about the circumstances involving homosexuality and the topic of "choice" came up. It seems the question of whether people are gay by choice or not is inextricable from the topic of homosexuality in general.

The thread I mentioned covers many parts of the subject and I'm sure can be searched on the site and read. Actually, my whole bit in that thread was all about how much choice could be involved and the born gay genetic dogma..the thread title itself " homosexuality disproves evolution" is something I didn't get into and doesn't make much sense to me at the moment. People who lived a life thinking they were born gay have changed their orientation, many times, it can be googled. The choice to change or self develope, if wanted, is not trumped by some vaige genetic disposition (exemptions of course). In the future as tech, knowledge, science,etc..advances...so will our power of choice in absolutely everything, including orientation.. they can't fight the future, just stay in an outdated belief bubble.. so of the thread I mentioned much more insight in it, choice is always a part of things. Let's take what the basic message is in the born gay dogma and simplify.. here is the message, "You have no choice, obey your genes and what science tells you your genes command.. you have no choice whatsoever.Believe and Obey. Now, I don't know about you but that is some scary stuff... hope that helped.. with regards.. Imo.

 

[Storm]

The thread I mentioned covers many parts of the subject and I'm sure can be searched on the site and read. Actually, my whole bit in that thread was all about how much choice could be involved and the born gay genetic dogma..the thread title itself " homosexuality disproved evolution" is something I didn't get into and doesn't make much sense to me at the moment. People who lived a life thinking they were born gay have changed their orientation, many times, it can be googled. The choice to change or self developed, if wanted, is not trumped by some vaige genetic disposition (exemptions of course). In the future as tech, knowledge, science,etc..advances...so will our power of choice in absolutely everything, including orientation.. they can't fight the future, just stay in an outdated belief bubble.. so of the thread I mentioned much more insight in it, choice is always a part of things. Let's take what the basic message is in the born gay dogma and simplify.. here is the message, "You have no choice, obey your genes and what science tells you your genes command.. you have no choice whatsoever.Believe and Obey. Now, I don't know about you but that is some scary stuff... hope that helped.. with regards.. Imo.

 

[McBell]

I figured it was merely a ploy to get the "discussion" started back up.

 

[rocketboy]

People who lived a life thinking they were born gay have changed their orientation, many times, it can be googled.

Um, I think you're missing a significant problem with that theory. You see, I'm bisexual .: I like both boys and girls equally. However I have only ever yet had relationships with girls. So it appears to my parents and their Orthodox Jewish friends that I'm straight. If I now date a boy, would I now be gay? No, I'd still be sexually attracted to both.

 

[McBell]

Um, I think you're missing a significant problem with that theory. You see, I'm bisexual .: I like both boys and girls equally. However I have only ever yet had relationships with girls. So it appears to my parents and their Orthodox Jewish friends that I'm straight. If I now date a boy, would I now be gay? No, I'd still be sexually attracted to both.

It also shows the difference between "research" and "ratification".

 

[waitasec]

i think bisexuals got lucky, in the scheme of things...
:jiggy:

 

[The Wizard]

did you choose to be hetero?

This is a false pretense question. It makes no sense. Self awareness, choices of direction and developement of orientation had to be involved as soon as it was recognized, unless the person wasn't a conscious human being. Choice is as applicable to hetro in the scenerio as it is to choosing English when everyone speaks English. Homo is not the normal environment therefore more self awareness and choice had to exist...imo.

 

[LuisDantas]

The thread I mentioned covers many parts of the subject and I'm sure can be searched on the site and read. Actually, my whole bit in that thread was all about how much choice could be involved and the born gay genetic dogma..the thread title itself " homosexuality disproves evolution" is something I didn't get into and doesn't make much sense to me at the moment. People who lived a life thinking they were born gay have changed their orientation, many times, it can be googled.

It can be googled, but it is still harmful fiction. It takes failing to be actually aware of homosexuality to think that it is a choice.

There are some people who say otherwise, mainly due to abusive spin of what amounts to repression of the sexual expression of homosexuals. I wish people stopped paying attention to such a shameful, dishonest, harmful claim.

The choice to change or self develope, if wanted, is not trumped by some vaige genetic disposition (exemptions of course). In the future as tech, knowledge, science,etc..advances...so will our power of choice in absolutely everything, including orientation.. they can't fight the future, just stay in an outdated belief bubble.. so of the thread I mentioned much more insight in it, choice is always a part of things. Let's take what the basic message is in the born gay dogma and simplify.. here is the message, "You have no choice, obey your genes and what science tells you your genes command.. you have no choice whatsoever.Believe and Obey. Now, I don't know about you but that is some scary stuff... hope that helped.. with regards.. Imo.

As already said by a couple of others:

 

[waitasec]

This is a false pretense question. It makes no sense. Self awareness, choices of direction and developement of orientation had to be involved as soon as it was recognized, unless the person wasn't a conscious human being. Choice is as applicable to hetro in the scenerio as it is to choosing English when everyone speaks English. Homo is not the normal environment therefore more self awareness and choice had to exist...imo.

all that to say, yes...

 

[LuisDantas]

This is a false pretense question. It makes no sense. Self awareness, choices of direction and developement of orientation had to be involved as soon as it was recognized, unless the person wasn't a conscious human being. Choice is as applicable to hetro in the scenerio as it is to choosing English when everyone speaks English. Homo is not the normal environment therefore more self awareness and choice had to exist...imo.

I beg to differ. The question is very relevant. Sexual behavior may be chosen. Sexual orientation is however inate and can't be changed short of aggressive, if not all-out mutilating treatments.

I also take issue with your statement that homosexuality is not normal. That is simply not true; it is as natural as heterosexuality, albeit slightly less frequent.

 

[The Wizard]

Um, I think you're missing a significant problem with that theory. You see, I'm bisexual .: I like both boys and girls equally. However I have only ever yet had relationships with girls. So it appears to my parents and their Orthodox Jewish friends that I'm straight. If I now date a boy, would I now be gay? No, I'd still be sexually attracted to both.

There is no theory about it... People change their orientation, people who believed they were born gay... They are pro-choice on the issue as of myself. Google is your friend.

 

[Storm]

Google is your friend.

Less so than the APA.

 

[rocketboy]

This is my point. A person can, after sexual relationships with the same gender, begin relationships with the opposite gender. From an external view point, it seems as if they have become heterosexual. However this can be faked under circumstances of coercion, or when a person does not ever state their preferences. The actual attractions of the person are obscured.

 

[The Wizard]

I beg to differ. The question is very relevant. Sexual behavior may be chosen. Sexual orientation is however inate and can't be changed short of aggressive, if not all-out mutilating treatments.

I also take issue with your statement that homosexuality is not normal. That is simply not true; it is as natural as heterosexuality, albeit slightly less frequent.

Well, you would have to speak to those who transition and succeed happily and get their own feedback. With all due respect they will most likely laugh and walk away. I think you misinterpreted, I said, "normal environment".. to be more specific then I would include, predominant environment-as in the common surroundings and people.

 

[LuisDantas]

With all due respect, you must be kidding.

 

[beenie]

What on earth is wrong with you people? Are you even reading all my posts? I’ve had this exact conversation with people before and they understood every word that came out of my mouth -- the first time around. They didn’t all necessarily agree with what I said (some did; some didn’t). But one thing --all of them most certainly understood it. I can’t understand why you guys can’t get what I’m saying even though I keep repeating it over and over. How more plain can I make my views for you to understand? Here’s what I’ll do, I’ll ask you a question and maybe you’re get the idea of it.

Here's why we can't understand it:

If your adult kids came and told you that they were having an incestuous affair with each other, would you give them your blessing and say, “Hey! You’re not hurting anyone, so go for it! You should sleep with whomever you want to sleep with.” Furthermore, if they told you that they always had that “special” bond with one another and just never told you about it, would you say, “That’s perfectly fine! If that’s the natural way you’ve always felt for each other then there’s nothing wrong with it. You can’t help that you feel that way. Get married if you want. You have my blessing!” Is that how you would feel?

because you actually compared homosexuality to incest.

You lost all credibility there.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Well, you would have to speak to those who transition and succeed happily and get their own feedback.

Really?
The peer reviewed paper "Changing sexual orientation: A consumers' report." by Psychologists Ariel Shidlo and Michael Schroeder, and published in Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, Vol 33(3), Jun 2002, 249-259, found that 88% of 150 participants failed to achieve a sustained change in their sexual behavior while a mere 3% reported changing their orientation to heterosexual. The remainder reported either losing all sexual drive or attempting to remain celibate, with no change in attraction.

 

[McBell]

Google is your friend.

Especially when all you are doing is looking for stuff that supports your claim.
Yes, google is a huge help when ratifying ones beliefs.

 

[thebigpicture]

The post I'm referring to is post 258. You said you've responded to it so I went back and tried to find your response, but couldn't. Could you link it for me?

Yeah, we were talking about two different posts. I was referring to your post#225 in which I responded to with Post #248.

So, wait, I just want to make sure I have your view correct:

You’re saying that if deformity comes out of it, consenting adults shouldn’t be allowed to have an incestuous relationship. But if deformity is not the result, then they should be allowed to have at it.

Is that what you’re saying?