I'm tempted to make a pithy comment comparing sweatshop wages in the US to the minimum wage for tipped employees in North Carolina...
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- Thread starter Evangelicalhumanist
- Start date
Then give an example where slavery is legal in the United States.
If I meant chattel Slavery, I would have said chattel slavery.
Umm...I literally said I am not saying slavery is legal in the United States...
I am saying modern slavery exists. As it does everywhere.
Yeah, I'm not so sure. But regardless, my point was that modern slavery exists in the USA.
And Australia.
Are you saying modern slavery is legal in the US? If so, how are you defining the difference between modern slavery vs slavery?
No, I'm not saying it's legal.
Yes, I am saying it exists. Much like cocaine use is illegal but exists.
The link I gave earlier is the Australian government definition of modern slavery, and I believe it comports pretty well to international understandings. But basically modern slavery includes;
Chattel slavery
Sex trafficking
Debt bondage
Forced marriage
I'm not including things like 'not getting paid enough', which I saw some people arguing for as a form of slavery. I'm sticking to standard definitions of modern slavery.
@Kfox
I thought a US source for definitions might be better for you than the Australian one I used earlier.
I thought a US source for definitions might be better for you than the Australian one I used earlier.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
ffs...did you even read the post you're replying to? Because the answer's already there.
You don't believe that slaves were once owned?
You don't believe that force wasn't used to keep slaves?
To have a choice doesn't mean there's never forced used
to coerce a choice.
BTW, I've never had a conservative call me a "socialist"
for advocating for it. Perhaps they like it because it's
a small government approach to a social safety net.
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Your opinion is clear, just dubious.I. Kant make it any clearer.
It appears that you argue it's better that
they be unemployed, & fully on the dole,
rather than working & receiving assistance.
That's bad public policy.
It appears that you've not been involved in
discussions over the Universal Basic income.
I recommend reading up on it. You might
like it.
An underperforming worker who needs assistance.
But by your definition, this person is a "government
slave" because payroll taxes taken are so high that
they can't survive.
In the all volunteer military today, it's low but not minimal.
But I addressed conscription, ie, pre-1974 pay when the
draft was on. The pay was ridiculously low...which is why
government had to use threat of prison to force conscripts
to fight.
In 1973, the year Nixon ended the draft (when my lottery
# was 34), I'd have made under $400 per month, had I
been drafted. That was indeed minimal.
Historical Military Pay Charts from 1949 to 2024
I find your views & corruption of language dangerous & ignorant.
But I hadn't planned to air such criticism...until you invited me.
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Going by that definition, there is a bunch of stuff a lot worse than slavery, going on in the United States by criminals looking to circumvent the law.
I believe that people were kidnapped and coerced into cooperation under political systems which allowed it. But my point is that people can always resist and fight back.
Tap dancing around my questions, eh.
That is as ridicules as suggesting people in prison can always leave if they wanted to; yeah they might starve to death in the cold but at least they'd be free. When the USA had slavery, there were special officers whose job it was to capture run-away slaves because so many slaves did run away, only to be recaptured and tortured.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Bad, human! Bad!I. Kant make it any clearer.
So we have a poster saying there was no slavery,
& other posters saying that working for a low
wage is slavery. The widely varying personal
definitions are making it nowhere or everywhere.
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Yes, it was a horrific atrocity and recognized as a crime against humanity. But some slaves did manage to escape or otherwise gain their freedom. One didn't have to be a slave to suffer torture and mistreatment. Some of the child laborers in the factories suffered endless beatings and were forced to work late into the night. They weren't slaves, at least not according to the law. Similar treatment occurred in mines, railroads. But yeah, they had a "choice," too.
There are definitions of modern slavery produced by government, and somewhat consistent internationally.
Then there is 'traditional' slavery in many people's eyes (chattel slavery).
Worth noting that in Australia we have never had formal chattel slavery, but even in the 1800's some of the extremely dubious practices around indentured labour (mostly aboriginal or imported from Asia) was being described as slavery.
I wonder if this has an effect on what is seen as slavery, in that the process of chattel slavery in the US was very much a commodity market, whereas in Australia it was less regulated and in the open. Not sure.
In any case, chattel slavery of the sort seen in many countries three hundred years ago is different to the majority of modern slavery in prosperous countries.
In case you missed it, a US definition...
PS. Worth noting, US historical slavery is widely denounced (rightly so).
Australian historical slavery is widely ignored. But we are definitely living in a glass house.