Nationalism?

[Tomorrows_Child]

This is mostly to satisfy a curiosity of mine, but what do folks around here think about nationalism or patriotism? I've seen some views about this that rather perplex me, and I'd like to give them a space to express themselves. Also, putting this in a debate area because I don't mind if you all start going at it with each other. I don't have strong feelings about the idea one way or another - being an American simply isn't part of how I think of my identity, but nor would I balk at someone who considers themselves a patriot. What about you?

Nationalism//patriotism is fine as long as it does not equate to "my race is superior to yours", which is sadly what ends up happening almost all the time.

From a religious perspective, nationalism should never be used to oppress others and supersede ones religious identity.

 

[Jumi]

Some random thoughts:

- I consider anyone who was born or has worked a certain time in a country and feels for the country and it's people one of a nation. The same can be said of cities.

- False pride is common in nationality and religion. I think anything we have put our work into improving we can be proud of.

- Going into race is silly. We're all the same if we go back far enough. Same with religion imho, regardless of what religion you are where you live is important.

 

[suncowiam]

Nationalism//patriotism is fine as long as it does not equate to "my race is superior to yours", which is sadly what ends up happening almost all the time.

From a religious perspective, nationalism should never be used to oppress others and supersede ones religious identity.

Well, how about I say my basketball team is better than yours. And then I'll admit your soccer team is better than mine, unless you're from UK.

 

[VioletVortex]

Patriotism generally tends to be a blind allegiance to ones country. Nationalism is a bit more serious. Provided that it isn't blind, nationalism can be a good thing. It depends on what country one is in though.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Not a fan. By treating such utterly artificial concepts as something of worth, we do a lot of harm to ourselves and others.

Lots of concepts could be seen as artificial. That doesn't necessarily make them without worth.

 

[ShivaFan]

European SUPERSTATE to be unveiled: EU nations 'to be morphed into one' post-Brexit:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

Quote: "EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels."

And ... this is an assault on democracy itself. And... this is what Hillary and Obama and the globalist elites want to do to us and OUR sovereignty as well.

And ... In May 2016, just ONE MONTH AGO, the EU assessed that Turkey at the time met 65 of the necessary 72 requirements for free visa travel throughout Europe and were just "months away" from Turkey as a full member of the EU where Muslim Turks and Kurds can travel all over Europe and to the UK as well (until UK gets out of the EU) WITHOUT A PASSPORT across EU's open borders - and...

And ... we just had 50 plus people (how many were westerners?) blown up by 3 muslim extremist terrorists in Turkey's Ataturk international airport the 3rd busiest airport in "Europe" and these same 3 suicide bombers absolutely would have taken their death mission right into Brussels or Rome or London et all and blew the **** out of the innocent as well as the chattel of the EU globalist elites who take their money and then enslave them and take away their sovereignty and ability to choose their own destiny and replace democracy with autocracy.

As we watch the socialist Les Miserables in Venezuela now begin to eat their own pets (have the zoos been attacked yet and animals eaten, or are all the zoos closed with the animals all gassed?), as we learn Lady Gaga the Mao lover and Trump hater has been banned today in Red China after meeting today with the Dalai Lama, we need to in keep in mind that the global economy is not working for the majority of people in America nor in the world as the economic model, the selective group of “stocks” and “bonds” that are hardwired into the “system” and used to threaten ruin if their agendas are challenged were developed by the economic elite to benefit the economic elite and disenfranchise the people – but investors like me all over the world refuse to cooperate and I made $15,000 on Friday, more on Monday, and even MORE when the DOW went up today (Nordic Bank ETFs, gold, Swiss Franc etc.) and I will rebalance to the new cry of freedom to hell with them all these economic forces that are destroying the middle class. I will not cooperate, and surprise there are millions of us out there and watch this entire fear mongering and threats from the globalist elites be challenged and defeated, because we must control our own destiny. To hell with TPP, the EU, NAFTA, to hell with the globalist elites, and to hell with Obama who is meeting today with that political elitist pig Trudeau of Canada who is being told to now take in hordes of Mexicans and “refugees” in closed door meetings to get in line with the globalist agenda.

The phony media will again tell the lie that Trump wants to “ban all Muslims”. This is a lie.

This is about borders and sovereignty and a new balance in the economic balance in favor of actual trade and not crony capitalists and the ilk of Hillary Goldman Sachs Clinton, liberal Jews, globalist banker elites and Brussels autocrats and to hell with the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

There are a lot of very real problems that come with such central, distant and elitist control and bureaucracy. Right now, from Saudi Arabia, I found out that apparently the passports of those from India are being collected and Indians who were working in low wage jobs in some ME countries are being held to work as literally chattel and not allowed to leave. This sounds incredible, but apparently it is true. I will gather further information. And while, this is NOT what is happening in the EU, I predict it WILL happen. Because ultimately, THAT is what will happen to those who surrender sovereignty to the globalist elite – you will have your passports taken, not given. Watch. It is the Nationalism of India that will challenge this.

The EU is the British East India Company all over again. Only it is in Brussels.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Debatable. There was conflict that was a bigger motivator for Independence.

Interesting suggestion. What do you see as the bigger motivator?

 

[ShivaFan]

Is that all you can do, is the typical "You are a Nazi" insults. Do you support ANYONE economically such as a family or others? And by the way, who on this forum gave you money? Don't you dare Seig Heil me, and why should you be allowed to violate "rules of the forum"? It is the same old same old from nonsense when you have no leg to stand on.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

European SUPERSTATE to be unveiled: EU nations 'to be morphed into one' post-Brexit:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

Quote: "EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels."

And ... this is an assault on democracy itself. And... this is what Hillary and Obama and the globalist elites want to do to us and OUR sovereignty as well.

And ... In May 2016, just ONE MONTH AGO, the EU assessed that Turkey at the time met 65 of the necessary 72 requirements for free visa travel throughout Europe and were just "months away" from Turkey as a full member of the EU where Muslim Turks and Kurds can travel all over Europe and to the UK as well (until UK gets out of the EU) WITHOUT A PASSPORT across EU's open borders - and...

And ... we just had 50 plus people (how many were westerners?) blown up by 3 muslim extremist terrorists in Turkey's Ataturk international airport the 3rd busiest airport in "Europe" and these same 3 suicide bombers absolutely would have taken their death mission right into Brussels or Rome or London et all and blew the **** out of the innocent as well as the chattel of the EU globalist elites who take their money and then enslave them and take away their sovereignty and ability to choose their own destiny and replace democracy with autocracy.

As we watch the socialist Les Miserables in Venezuela now begin to eat their own pets (have the zoos been attacked yet and animals eaten, or are all the zoos closed with the animals all gassed?), as we learn Lady Gaga the Mao lover and Trump hater has been banned today in Red China after meeting today with the Dalai Lama, we need to in keep in mind that the global economy is not working for the majority of people in America nor in the world as the economic model, the selective group of “stocks” and “bonds” that are hardwired into the “system” and used to threaten ruin if their agendas are challenged were developed by the economic elite to benefit the economic elite and disenfranchise the people – but investors like me all over the world refuse to cooperate and I made $15,000 on Friday, more on Monday, and even MORE when the DOW went up today (Nordic Bank ETFs, gold, Swiss Franc etc.) and I will rebalance to the new cry of freedom to hell with them all these economic forces that are destroying the middle class. I will not cooperate, and surprise there are millions of us out there and watch this entire fear mongering and threats from the globalist elites be challenged and defeated, because we must control our own destiny. To hell with TPP, the EU, NAFTA, to hell with the globalist elites, and to hell with Obama who is meeting today with that political elitist pig Trudeau of Canada who is being told to now take in hordes of Mexicans and “refugees” in closed door meetings to get in line with the globalist agenda.

The phony media will again tell the lie that Trump wants to “ban all Muslims”. This is a lie.

This is about borders and sovereignty and a new balance in the economic balance in favor of actual trade and not crony capitalists and the ilk of Hillary Goldman Sachs Clinton, liberal Jews, globalist banker elites and Brussels autocrats and to hell with the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

There are a lot of very real problems that come with such central, distant and elitist control and bureaucracy. Right now, from Saudi Arabia, I found out that apparently the passports of those from India are being collected and Indians who were working in low wage jobs in some ME countries are being held to work as literally chattel and not allowed to leave. This sounds incredible, but apparently it is true. I will gather further information. And while, this is NOT what is happening in the EU, I predict it WILL happen. Because ultimately, THAT is what will happen to those who surrender sovereignty to the globalist elite – you will have your passports taken, not given. Watch. It is the Nationalism of India that will challenge this.

The EU is the British East India Company all over again. Only it is in Brussels.

The Express.

I won't hold my breath to see this happen...

 

[ShivaFan]

And guess what Frankenstein, most of what I just posted were EXACT QUOTES FROM BERNIE SANDERS from today. I did that on purpose.

 

[Flankerl]

This giant has, as well, saved endangered cultures and languages from near extinction, and liberated conquered nations from oppressive Empires. Or do you think Tibet should just up and submit to Chinese rule?

I hate the Tibet argument for many reasons, here are a few of them.

- Tibet was an Theocratic Absolute Monarchy
- Actual slavery done by those in power
- Tibet used to be a Tributary of the Chinese Dynasties for centuries and later was part of China de jure
- Tibet along with all the other Warlords declared its "independence" during the Warlord era

There was literally nothing different from Tibet to all the other Warlord areas except that it was far too difficult to reinstate state control (Republic of China) over it.

After the Civil war the Communists did what the "Republicans" simply couldn't and reinstated Chinese control over Tibet. Though they even gave it Autonomy and the Dalai Lama became member of the party and "parliament".


Want to make it a democratic country without anything Tibet had in its brief appearance on the maps of the 20th century? Cool. Just don't base the claim of it on those years of independence in the 20th century, they are just not a good example.

http://www.express.co.uk

Hehe.

 

[ShivaFan]

I hate the Communist Chinese for what they are doing to displace the Tibetan people - and so do the nuns and priests who set themselves on fire in protest. As for the 20th Century, and now the 21st, central governments have been the greatest mass murderers of all centuries before. Take the 20th Century and look. I would rather have the Dalai Lama. Or George Washington.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Is that all you can do, is the typical "You are a Nazi" insults. Do you support ANYONE economically such as a family or others? And by the way, who on this forum gave you money? Don't you dare Seig Heil me, and why should you be allowed to violate "rules of the forum"? It is the same old same old from nonsense when you have no leg to stand on.

And guess what Frankenstein, most of what I just posted were EXACT QUOTES FROM BERNIE SANDERS from today. I did that on purpose.

That's nice. Continue on with your rambling, incoherent tirade. I don't care.

 

[ShivaFan]

Oh gee. Like you? Every personal attack is worth about as much as Obama's promises.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

 

[ShivaFan]

And by the way, centralist governments also take away the passports of citizens to travel within THEIR OWN COUNTRY - look at what the Communist Chinese do to restrict the travel of their own citizens from one "economic zone" (slave wage zones, peasants trapped) to the city?

Make Britain Great Again.
Make America Great Again.
Make India Great Again.
To hell with the new British East India Company called the EU run from Brussels.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

And by the way, centralist governments also take away the passports of citizens to travel within THEIR OWN COUNTRY - look at what the Communist Chinese do to restrict the travel of their own citizens from one "economic zone" (slave wage zones, peasants trapped) to the city?

Make Britain Great Again.
Make America Great Again.
Make India Great Again.
To hell with the new British East India Company called the EU run from Brussels.

Doesn't making Britain great again involve making India a little on the subservient side?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Is that all you can do, is the typical "You are a Nazi" insults. Do you support ANYONE economically such as a family or others? And by the way, who on this forum gave you money? Don't you dare Seig Heil me, and why should you be allowed to violate "rules of the forum"? It is the same old same old from nonsense when you have no leg to stand on.

Can you talk about Socialists without saying they are in cahoots with Islamic terrorists? You want to talk about someone else talking non-sense, but you do a pretty good amount of it yourself.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

Well, how about I say my basketball team is better than yours. And then I'll admit your soccer team is better than mine, unless you're from UK.

I am from the UK...but we do have Bale (I know his Welsh but what ever)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

By the way, @ShivaFan , I made the Nazi reference because the rhetoric you're spouting sure sounds fascistic to me. You're obviously a nationalist and a very strong one at that. You posit a paranoid conspiracy of "globalist elites" (including "bankers" and "liberal Jews", which are anti-Semitic tropes), appear to be xenophobic (you obviously hate Muslims and immigrants in general, from all the posts I've read from you), have a strong belief in "national revival", spout the same tired crap about communism and socialism that is par for the course among the far-right, support the Hindutva movement (which is neo-fascist and is currently persecuting its perceived enemies, including murdering Christians and Muslims, restricting their rights under the law, destroying churches and mosques and carrying out forced conversions; they are also homophobic and have brought back the "sodomy" laws) and there are undertones of violence in your rants. All of that is textbook fascism.