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Natural vs. Supernatural: Real Distinction or Made-Up Crap?

C

curiousjohn

New Member
dust1n said:
Not even close.

Nature is the totality of all physical and material existence.

Anything which exists in nature is natural.

Anything which is posited to exist outside of nature or above nature is supernatural.

God is supernatural.

Science relies on observations of repeatable physical and material phenomenon by multiple parties, to the point of predictability, and deduction.

Therefore, god, as a supernatural entity, can not be confirmed nor denied, nor given any attributes or personality whatsoever, by scientists, at least.
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These "is" statements such as “Anything that exists in Nature is natural” are just definitions. Without adding any further reasoning from such a statement one can conclude just by definition the supernatural cannot exist in Nature which. When you make an argument just by a definition then you are not making a valid argument. If you want to make an argument for something then you need to make sure what you are arguing for is not made true by the definitions you start with. This sort of fallacious reasoning is called circular reasoning.


Circular reasoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Mestemia said:
Says who?
And what are they basing this claim on?
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Says all religions ever......and Theosophy, and Mysticism.. They are not actually claims, just revelation of truth from the higher realms for the humble 'thirty' souls who are awakening to the truth of what and who they really are. Those lacking in humility who think humans are the apex of evolutionary development in the universe are not yet ready to open their minds to the possibility, and for the time being live a darker materialistic existence....no problem, their time will come to awake...
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
outhouse said:
You own this.

And the question becomes, can you show us with credibility it is not mythology.
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You ask the impossible out of ignorance....as was explained, it is the higher realms from which revelation comes , which is represented by your concept of mythology, not mere mortals...and as you should already be aware with even a cursory knowledge of relevant religious doctrines...this is sacred stuff and waaay beyond the awareness of the profane...

So let me explain with clarity....this is the way it is, was, and always will be...aspiring disciples must pass a test of worthiness before they are accepted on the spiritual path proper. There are no exceptions....souls reap what they sow.....and if you have not aspired for the truth behind religion, then you presently do not have the prerequisite intuitive faculty development that would allow revelation of spiritual truth? How does an expert in any field become a master....through aspiration and practice. And here you are....an frustrated atheist wanting proof of the sacred before you even begin on the path.... :rolleyes:

You want proof...seek within, with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength for the rest of your life and the truth of which you ask about, will be revealed...
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
ben d said:
this is sacred stuff
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Unsubstantiated rhetoric.

ben d said:
aspiring disciples must pass a test of worthiness before they are accepted on the spiritual path proper.
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More rhetoric.

All the books were written by normal men. jesus was a normal man by all historical accounts.



Your making the case for me, this is all man made creations with no value at all, outside the faithful.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
outhouse said:
Unsubstantiated rhetoric.

More rhetoric.

All the books were written by normal men. jesus was a normal man by all historical accounts.

Your making the case for me, this is all man made creations with no value at all, outside the faithful.
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Naturally as an atheist...the religious teaching on this subject shines in the darkness...but the darkness comprehendeth it not and calls it rhetoric... Sorry son...
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Mestemia said:
Mythology is not the word that came to my mind.....
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Atheistic belief is a device of self-delusion, a slight of hand done with words and emotions founded on any irrational notion that can be dreamed up. Atheism is the attempt to coerce truth to surrender to whim. It is trying to breathe life into a lie by trying to outshine reality with the beauty of wishes....- I hope my paraphrasing has not infringed any copyright....:D
 
George-ananda

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
outhouse said:
Sounds like 100% mythology to me.
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Outhouse, I think you messed up here as others have noted. For that quote you should have gone with your 'fantasy/imagination/wishful thinking' rail instead of your 'mythology' rail. When you only have two rails it shouldn't be that hard to pick the right one.
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
ben d said:
Atheistic belief is a device of self-delusion, a slight of hand done with words and emotions founded on any irrational notion that can be dreamed up. Atheism is the attempt to coerce truth to surrender to whim. It is trying to breathe life into a lie by trying to outshine reality with the beauty of wishes....- I hope my paraphrasing has not infringed any copyright....:D
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Sad that you would bring up a point you flat out refuse to address.
Perhaps you will actually address the point now?
Or are you going to tuck tail and run away from it once again?
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Mestemia said:
Sad that you would bring up a point you flat out refuse to address.
Perhaps you will actually address the point now?
Or are you going to tuck tail and run away from it once again?
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Errr....so you say I brought up a point that I refused to address.....how does that work pray tell? o_O

...and it would be helpful to point out the point in question?
 
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